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62HawkPhil07
05-15-2007, 09:39 AM
I recently installed a Hydro Booster that I purchased from JDP. Immediately after the installation I notice the booster was leaking fluid from a internal location that was "connected" went the unit was rebuilt. So, I sent an email to JDP describing the situation.

I asked John for direction regarding the fluid leak and his response to me was to replace the washers where the booster was leaking. Now understand, for me to replace the washers, I have to disconnect parts that are internal to the unit.
I did try to locate new washers but these washers appear to be special "brake brass washers" and I just did not want to take the risk, so I asked John to provide the washers, and well, below is his response to me:

This is JDP response:
I don't have any new washers, but I've been able to buy the fittings from SASCO so they may have the washers. I may have the used ones I took off your core if you want them.

I just don't understand his response. I paid $260 for the Booster, it has a fluid leak and well, all I asked from John is to send me the washers. I will change them out myself. I could have originally just sent the Booster back.

I really donít understand why he would suggest that he can send my old parts back to me. These washers are extremely thin and once installed they should not be reused.

I told JDP I was sending the Booster back to him and expected a full refund.

I believe it would be much simpler if JDP would just replace the defective washers.

Am I wrong?


Phil

JDP
05-15-2007, 10:00 AM
I'm sorry I misunderstood you I though you were talking about the washer under the brake line fitting, not a internal seal. You told me it was the double washers at the fitting and they are not parts of the hydovac. If I get them with a core, I do return them, but they don't go to the rebuilder. I'll gladly refund your money, even if the hydrovac itself is not leaking and don't understand why he felt you felt the need for a post like this.

JDP/Maryland


63 GT R2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert-63
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

Scott
05-15-2007, 10:30 AM
I hope you get it worked out, Phil, but don't think JDP is the only one who sometimes sends out a less than perfect unit. I've had one fail right out of the box that came from another vendor, so I had to pay for labor twice to install and uninstall. I'm not sure why brake boosters are such a bugaboo in general. Of all the mechanical parts I've had replaced in my Studebakers, brake boosters make me the most nervous because it seems like 1 in 3 rebuilt ones are likely to not be rebuilt right and fail immediately or soon. If you don't do your own work it gets darn expensive and frustrating - not mention potentially dangerous.

Swifster
05-15-2007, 10:34 AM
Phil, as an owner of a business, past & present, these types of responses can prove to be damaging to a business when, by your own admission, John has been trying to take care of your problem to your satisfaction. This is kind of harsh for post number 2.

Please don't take this the wrong way. Consider this constructive criticism and not an attack. I've found that in the automotive end, there are few absolutes. I judge a company on what the follow up is if there is a problem. Some in this hobby (Studebaker and old car in general) can be a problem to deal with. Your complaint is the first that I've heard about John. And John appears to have made the attempt to have this taken care of this issue to your satisfaction. You can't ask for more than that.

I think the best way is to handle this to the point of an impass. If a problem exists with a product and the company tells you to pound sand, that is one thing. No one wants to deal with someone like that. But until you've reached that point, I don't think it's really appropriate to post in this fashion.

Again Phil, this isn't meant as an attack. Consider it to be like being advised that leaving the caps locked is a bad thing when posting on the internet.

Hope to see some picks of the Hawk.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Valrico, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/1965_Studebaker_Commander_front198x.jpg

Chucks Stude
05-15-2007, 10:46 AM
We need to remember, we are dealing with stuff that is 40 to 60 years old. It was made, remanufactured, and sold by humans. I know of only one individual who was perfect, and I am not HIM.

JDP
05-15-2007, 10:47 AM
It seems it's a misunderstanding, the booster works fine and I thought he was talking about those damn banjo washers like are used on the master cylinder. The new MC don't have new washers either, and I either have to find new ones or risk a leak. In his note he said the booster does work perfectly but had a fluid leak and said it has a leak on the fluid input section of the booster in the location of the brass washer. I was not aware of any brass washers that are internal to the booster and neither does my rebuilder. I told him to keep the unit, and I'll refund his money since his core is now rebuilt too.
Your point is well taken since I searched out this rebuilder because of problems I've had with others. I've had a few dozen rebuilt without a issue, but it's not worth the risk to sell the service at nearly my cost on the forum. I'll still do the service for the some vendors, but no more direct sales at a discount on a open forum. This kind of stuff is why vendors seldom join forums, I never got a chance to offer him a refund until he asked for it on a public forum.


JDP/Maryland


63 GT R2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert-63
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

r1lark
05-15-2007, 11:47 AM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

I'll still do the service for the some vendors, but no more direct sales at a discount on a open forum.
JDP/Maryland


I hate it when one, ah.....person.....screws up a good thing for the rest of us!!

Paul

Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: http://hometown.aol.com/r1skytop/myhomepage/index.html

55studeman
05-15-2007, 11:53 AM
JDP, from my view (not involved personally, business, or otherwise) this was very clearly a misunderstanding between a customer and you, that you were trying to fix. To me that is an honest business and I would not be swayed at all by this issue, in fact it'd tend to reinforce trust in what you do. Like I said, just an outsider opinion, and I've enjoyed your many posts on technical and non-technical matters.

Best Regards,
Eric West
"The Speedster Kid"
Sunny Northern California
Where the roads don't freeze over and the heat doesn't kill you.
And an open road is yours to have -only during non-commute rush hours 9am-4pm and 7pm to 7am (Ha, ha, ha)
55 Speedster "Lemon/Lime" (Beautiful)
55 President State Sedan (Rusty original, but runs great and reliable)

62HawkPhil07
05-15-2007, 11:55 AM
In response, I add the following comments;

I had a booster that I received from JDP that leaked fluid.

I asked for JDP to replace the defective parts and I told him that I would install the parts myself.

At this time I did not ask for a refund because I wanted to keep the booster and just do the repairs.

I was told to chase the parts myself or he would send me the old parts. (In my interpretation)

If I overreacted to his comments, I do apologize.

Swifster
05-15-2007, 11:59 AM
Now that this is handled, how about some pics of your Hawk Phil!

:D

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Valrico, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/1965_Studebaker_Commander_front198x.jpg

JDP
05-15-2007, 12:00 PM
I still think it's the banjo washers, but even though they are not part of the hydrovac, I gave him a full refund and told him to keep the unit. For $265, he should be able to buy two new washers. I'll just chalk it up to a lesson learned.
My son works retail and he told me a story that cheered me up. He had a customer that spent a half hour trying to shave more and more off the asking price of a guitar. He finally asked the customer if he was looking for a "Good Buy". When the customer replied in the affirmative, by son said, "OK Goodbye" :)

JDP/Maryland


63 GT R2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert-63
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

Swifster
05-15-2007, 12:08 PM
:D

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Valrico, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/1965_Studebaker_Commander_front198x.jpg

62HawkPhil07
05-15-2007, 12:45 PM
My last commit regarding this issue

John,

When I received the Booster from you the banjo washer and assembly were mounted to the booster by you.

I can only conclude that since you keep imply that the bango assemble is not part of the booster rebuild, you must install used bango washers when you received the booster back from the rebuild shop. Then you ship the booster to me, not informing me that you mounted used parts to the booster. You never at anytime told me that the rebuilt booster had parts that were used.

The picture you have posted on this forum shows a rebuild booster with a bango assemble mounted, yet you say itís not part of the booster?

If the bango assembly in your mind is not part of the booster rebuild you should inform us of this condition and not just install used parts.

This act could endanger all passengers inside the Studebaker.

JDP
05-15-2007, 12:53 PM
You said:


"The picture you have posted on this forum shows a rebuild booster with a bango assemble mounted, yet you say itís not part of the booster?

If the bango assembly in your mind is not part of the booster rebuild you should inform us of this condition and not just install used parts.

This act could endanger all passengers inside the Studebaker."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


OK, I want to clear this up for both of us. Here's the thread with a picture of a booster I sent you, point out what you think is the banjo, because I'm still confused. I did screw on your old fitting that you sent me so as not to lose them and did not intend to "endanger all passengers inside the Studebaker."

http://www.studebakerdriversclub.com/sdc_forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10199

JDP/Maryland


63 GT R2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert-63
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

Roscomacaw
05-15-2007, 12:59 PM
I think another point needs to be made here. And let me say up front that I'm not JDP's guardian or anything like that!
Maybe some of us see different vendors as rebuilding these things in their shops and then without even bothering to test them, shipping them out and running to the bank to deposit their booty. Truth is, most Stude vendors send complex units like this out to a professional shop to have them overhauled. To hook them up and functionally test them before sending them off to a customer would be tedious and detrimental to the unit itself.
Further, we've only recently had a bruhaha about airing your dirty laundry here, regarding vendors. Maybe it looks like a good way to embarrass someone into doing what YOU feel is right to rectify things, but it actually makes the complainer look small and the vendor gets a whack he maybe doesn't deserve.[}:)]
In this instance, it SOUNDS like a case of mis-communication. Man, how easy is it to try and convey that you need that little thingy that goes right next to the ghee-watchet to the right of the steering column??? Vendors have to deal with this all the time - frustrated customers that can't understand why you don't recognize the little round "thingy" that they need that goes inside the valve body of their Studebaker's transmission! After all - you DO sell Studebaker parts, right?:(

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Dick Steinkamp
05-15-2007, 01:10 PM
If it is the banjo fitting that is leaking, let me just say that they are a PITA. :(. A disk brake Hawk has two of them. I worked for quite a while to stop mine from "seeping". I finally re-annealed some new copper washers (thanks to Gord's suggestion) and cranked the hold down bolts probably more than I should. No more seeping.

If anyone has other solutions to this problem, please post them.



http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Swifster
05-15-2007, 01:14 PM
Also, if you sent parts/connectors from your old booster without pulling these parts before being shipped, you may or may not get these back from the vendor. It sounds like you sent pieces you were supposed to keep and John was nice enough to send them back.

Of course I could be wrong about the part you mentioned, in which case, it still would have been nice to have sent a picture to John explaining your concern.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Valrico, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/1965_Studebaker_Commander_front198x.jpg

GTtim
05-15-2007, 01:41 PM
I would also like to say that I have had all the problems with a Hydrovac described here. The first replacement I got (not from JP, but another reputable vendor) leaked internally and filled the vacuum chamber with brake fluid. The one that replaced that one arrived very quickly but when I went to install it the area where the copper washer was supposed to contact was pitted and damaged. I was told to file it flat, which I did and after torquing the he** out of the fitting it doesn't leak. I've come to conclude that Hydrovacs are a bugger to get installed, but once in they perform well for years.

Now, onto another aspect. JP says he's sorry he's offered this service here at a discount. That's definitely our loss. However, I also am a self-employed service provider and I regularly come home thinking why did I ever price something at a low margin figuring most people would be easy to deal with. Then someone will run out the clock taking all kinds of extra time and labor because of one reason or another. The point is, you really have to price your service based not entirely on the worst case scenario, but at least with it in mind. If you don't, you risk losing money and the customer's confidence because you won't want to take the time to deal with their concerns.

It sounds like there wasn't good communication here, I hope Phil and JP can work it out.



Tim K.
'64 R2 GT Hawk

JDP
05-15-2007, 01:51 PM
I too hate the banjo fittings, especially on the master cylinder. It's hard to get enough torque to compress the copper and keep them from weeping. He says the leak is internal to the hydrovac and I still am clueless as to where it's "squirting fluid" from. In his e-mails, it sounds like the banjo, but that's neither internal or part of the hydrovac. Even though I refunded his money in full, I'd still like to know where the defect in the rebuild is so I can tell my rebuilder.
If it is the banjo leaking, I guess I should have just tossed his old ones in the box, but I thought they might get lost, a $265 mistake on my part.

JDP/Maryland


63 GT R2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert-63
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
05-15-2007, 01:59 PM
True, I did tell you to buy new washers and suggested where to get them. If I had them myself you can be sure I would send them out. Since they were not part of the hydrovac, and your old ones were sent to me, I just returned them to you. It's no different then if you'd bought a new set of brake hoses or a master cylinder, you do have to chase down new washers. Once you posted on the public forum about a leaky hydrovac and suggested a refund because I would not find you new washers, you got one.

JDP/Maryland


63 GT R2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert-63
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
05-15-2007, 02:57 PM
You know, it never occurred to me the the hydrovac surface could have been pitted. Carlos bead blasts them, but if it were badly pitted it might well leak especially when reusing the old washers. As to pricing I agree. I just found out I was selling a item at a discounted price of $90.00 that the my cost had gone up to $104.:)

JDP/Maryland


63 GT R2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert-63
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

BShaw
05-15-2007, 03:15 PM
Well, y'all know what I'm about to say...

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h53/StudeRobert/Whoa.gif

Posting specific complaints against another forum member publically is not an appropriate use of this forum. I would have deleted the initial post and privately contacted the writer had I seen it early enough (as I have done to others in the past). However, as the subject party has responded and, more importantly, it appears as though a resolution has been tendered, I have chosen to not delete the topic at this time.

For everyone's benefit should they find themselves in a similar situation: If one forum member seeks out and subsequently connects with another forum member who describes and offers the product/service through the forum, I consider that to be "advertising". As such, the forum's advertising policy applies.

As spelled out in the "Forum Policies" sticky topic in the General Discussion Forum, disputes between an advertiser and a customer are not to be played out on the forum in public but are to be submitted to the SDC Advertising Complaint Arbitor who will work with both parties privately to resolve the issue.

Bringing "charges" against another forum member is serious business and must not done without careful consideration and only after all other avenues have been exhausted. If private emails do not suffice, then telephone conversations are in order. And, as a forum member suggests, one keeps trying to resolve the problem "until an impass is reached". I repeat... complaining about another forum member publically (whether a vendor or individual) is not appropriate or welcomed on this forum. If the complaint is about a product or service sold/bought as a result of both parties being on this forum, there is a Board-approved process for lodging/handling the complaint.

I encourage the parties to continue their discussion and path to resolution through private emails and telephone. Thank you.

BShaw,Webmaster
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h53/StudeRobert/StudeWebService-small.gif
60 Hawk. 49 2R5, 39 Champion
Woodbury, Minnesota

sbca96
05-15-2007, 03:31 PM
With all the cheap digital cameras out there and cell phones, I dont
see why there hasnt been one picture posted yet. Just an observation.

I am interested as to what the problem actually is, sometimes these
vendor vs customer posts are worthwhile because others can learn from
the experience in what to look for. JDP has easily shown that he is
a stand up guy in regards to this issue, but WHAT [u]is</u> leaking?

Tom

'63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: 97 Z28 T-56 6-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires

vegas paul
05-15-2007, 03:55 PM
Hey JDP - after reading all your responses, I'm inclined to buy something from you... sounds like you understand customer service. Too bad I don't need a booster! Where's your online store?

Las Vegas, NV
'51 Champion Business Coupe G899965 10G-Q4-1434
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s144/vegas_paul/graciestude.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s144/vegas_paul/1462673_2_350.jpg

JDP
05-15-2007, 04:41 PM
I don't have a store, I just sell extra stuff on ebay now and then, and occasionally help out someone that posts a need for a part.

JDP/Maryland


63 GT R2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert-63
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

John Kirchhoff
05-15-2007, 05:32 PM
The way I see it, regardless of who, what , when, where or why, JDP refunding the money PLUS not asking for the unit in return says it all. An honorable man indeed. When I get further into my '51, I know who I'll be contacting.

sbca96
05-15-2007, 08:32 PM
Well .. I always like to know the "why". It might be something very
useful for others to know. As these cars age, things that were not a
problem in the past might start being a problem. Could be nothing,
but its worth while seeing where this goes, could end up as a tech on
Johnstones website!;)

I remember all the hell we had with my dads '64 GT Hawk's Hydrovac. I
got to the point I wanted to hydrolaunch that hydrovac![:p]

Tom

JDP
05-15-2007, 08:42 PM
Maybe we should just drop this thread as Bob suggested, the guy was dissatisfied for whatever reason and got a refund. It's up to him if he wants to fill us in when he solves the problem. I'd like to know if it was the hydrovac proper myself, but it's up to him to e-mail me if he wants.

JDP/Maryland


63 GT R2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert-63
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

studebaker-R2-4-me
05-15-2007, 09:53 PM
I've dealt with John several times and have found him to be not only honorable his service has been extraordinary. Phil jumped the gun and got his refund. As Mr Shaw has stated this is not the place to air dirty laundry. JP has a very well known and published Email address and these comments should have been aired and resolved there. Privately.

I recall some bad blood on the forum a few months ago regarding Steeltech brakes. This issue was not brought up on the forum until it could or would not be resolved privately. And well deserved too.

As far as I am concerned Phil received a good service, sounds like a simple mistake with bad communication and should send JP a cheque back.

Is this where it is leaking? Notice the two copper washers.

BTW I would love to have JP take mine apart just to bead blast and paint it!

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o278/studebaker-r2-4-me/banjofitting.jpg

1964 GT Hawk soon to be R2 Clone

sbca96
05-16-2007, 03:22 AM
I agree that if this was an all out bashfest, than it should be axed
and left in our memories, but we all see that JDP refunded the money
and that should make others feel good about doing business with him.
BUT if the thread goes away, others that have had a similar problem
will be left in the dark as to what went wrong - thats a dis-service
to the members of this forum. This is why I would like to see what it
was that WAS leaking, as even JDP has stated. Bringing this up on the
forum, Phil has a duty to all of us to share what exactly he is has an
issue with.

I did that when I posted pictures of both the headlight gaskets for my
Avanti, and the rebuild kit for my fuel pump from Studebaker Int. The
gaskets just dont fit the plastic lenses I have like they should, so I
need to figure out how to do so, & the fuel pump had a torn seal that
S.I. offered to replace if I sent the whole kit back. Mike Mudd on
this forum was nice enough to send me a replacement so I didnt have to
wait on shipping back and forth. I felt good about how S.I. handled
the situation and bought my hoses and rebuild kits from them for my
powersteering self torture ... er ... I mean rebuild.;)

Tom


quote:Originally posted by JDP

Maybe we should just drop this thread as Bob suggested, the guy was dissatisfied for whatever reason and got a refund. It's up to him if he wants to fill us in when he solves the problem. I'd like to know if it was the hydrovac proper myself, but it's up to him to e-mail me if he wants.


quote:Originally posted by studebaker-R2-4-me

As Mr Shaw has stated this is not the place to air dirty laundry ... snip ... Is this where it is leaking? Notice the two copper washers.

bonehead007
05-16-2007, 07:55 AM
I have to agree with everyone. This is supposed to be a Tech Talk page, not a customer refund window. 62hawk had a problem and it should have been and was settled btween him & JDP, not him, JDP and the rest of the world. End of story. I just tried putting my recored radiator in my Hawk & found that its now an inch & 1/2 too small. But, I'll go back to the vendor & deal with him that way, not P%$s and moan about it. I'm for the admin deleting this "tech problem" from this column...

62HawkPhil07
05-16-2007, 09:11 AM
With the acceptance of the moderator I will make this reply:

When I received the booster I assumed everything was repaired. I was wrong in making this assumption. An ďun-repairedĒ part was installed on the rebuild booster. The vendor knew this, but I did not. This was not the vendors fault. I also believe it was not totally my fault either. As the familiar bumper sticker states, **** Happens.

I installed the booster and went through all the bleeding procedures. However, without my knowledge, the booster was leaking fluid at the part that was removed off my old booster. The only time the leak would occur was under a hard brake application. A small stream of brake fluid would shoot out. I did not catch this leak during the bleeding procedure.

This situation drained the master cylinder and left me stranded 10 miles from home with no brakes. Lucky nothing else occurred. Let me make this extremely clear, I do not hold the vendor responsible for this situation. He was only responsible for the booster repair. I was responsible for discovering that there was a leak.

This part that was leaking is an assembly that inserts into the input chamber of the fluid chamber, which is part of the booster body. A brass swivel body slides over the bolt and this swivel is sandwiched between two washers. This bolt is center bored so input fluid can pass through it into the fluid chamber. As described by most here, this bolt has two thin washers of which in my opinion should only be used once. The output tubing of the master cylinder is screwed into this assembly.

I did repair the leak last night by fabricating two washers in my shop. The booster works perfectly. I am returning the returned money back to the vendor.

In resolution of this situation, I recommend that all vendors apply a warning tag to any part that is reinstalled to a rebuild item as a warning. It could read, "WarningĒ this part has not been rebuilt. I believe this is a fair suggestion.

Phil

JDP
05-16-2007, 09:29 AM
Phil, glad everything turned out OK. A lessor man would have kept the refund and the booster and we'd have never known what the issue was. From now on any extra used parts and washers shipped with the booster core will be taped or tied to the booster with a note that to use new copper washers on install. Your post made my day, thanks for being a stand up guy.:)

JDP/Maryland


63 GT R2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert-63
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

Scott
05-16-2007, 10:08 AM
I think Phil has a good suggestion about tagging unrebuilt parts. Most of the guys that post here are technically savvy, but I'm not up to that par. A lot of new owners might not have any ANY technical ability and rely on the vendors and their mechanics to do things right. In my case the mechanics I use are willing to work on my cars and sometimes bring up good points, but they're not experts in Studebaker stuff (or anything over 40 years old) and sometimes learn by working on my cars. I don't know if they would have known that new washers would have been the only way to go or not.

Maybe there's been some bashing here, but I think I learned something about the brake system I had no idea about before (and I still don't fully understand it). I'm glad his unit works and doesn't have to be replaced.

55studeman
05-16-2007, 01:08 PM
Bravo to Phil and JDP :D Resolved and Happy trails for them AND for us, since we got to learn about the leaky brass washer problem. This was handled very well, and in the end I think there was no (permenant) harm done, Yea! :)

Phil, how about a picture of that Hawk?

Best Regards,
Eric West
"The Speedster Kid"
Sunny Northern California
Where the roads don't freeze over and the heat doesn't kill you.
And an open road is yours to have -only during non-commute rush hours 9am-4pm and 7pm to 7am (Ha, ha, ha)
55 Speedster "Lemon/Lime" (Beautiful)
55 President State Sedan (Rusty original, but runs great and reliable)

Dick Clemens
05-17-2007, 12:08 AM
I'm glad the moderator didn't delete this post. It was good to see two stand up guys work things out tot their mutual satisfaction.
It makes me proud to be involved with such a group as this.

Thanks Phil and John



studedick

gordr
05-17-2007, 01:37 AM
I'm sure glad to see this has been resolved. What Phil has described in his latest post is called a "banjo fitting", because it is basically a thick round disc with a stem on it, thus somewhat resembling the shape of a banjo (the musical instrument). They are not much used on modern vehicles, but old British cars had plenty of them; on fuel lines, too.

Those copper washers are actually sealing rings, and proper service practice requires that NEW ones be used every time the fitting is separated. Sometimes you can get away with reusing them, but you are not supposed to do it. The nature of copper is that it tends to "work harden". Subject it to any deformation, like bending or crushing, and it becomes a lot harder. Those sealing washers, when new, are dead soft, and as the fitting bolt is tightened, the metal literally flows into the pores and crevices in the surface of the mating parts, and makes a very secure seal. Undo the fitting, and re-tighten it, and the copper washer is now too hard to properly conform to the mating surfaces, and a leak may develop.

Lacking new washers, one thing you can do, is to ANNEAL the old ones, by heating them red hot with a propane torch, and allowing them to cool slowly. Don't quench them in water. If any of you are curious about the work hardening and annealing properties of copper, experiment with a scrap of solid copper wire, say from a scrap of house wiring.

I should stress, though, that the PROPER way to do these is to replace the sealing washers with new ones whenver the fitting is undone. You should be able to get sealing washers at any industrial brake shop that does medium and heavy truck brakes.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

sbca96
05-17-2007, 02:06 AM
This is the commonly used flexible brake hose on modern vehicles. They
are used with the 13" Cobra brakes I designed brackets for my Avanti.

Here are the stock rubber lines :

http://hometown.aol.com/sbca96/images/avantibrakeproject/cobra_install/brake_hose_mod_001a.jpg

http://hometown.aol.com/sbca96/images/avantibrakeproject/cobra_install/brake_hose_mod_002a.jpg

here are the stainless steel braided, you can see the bolt and washers
in the bag, the flash kinda disrupts the view of the banjo end :

http://hometown.aol.com/sbca96/images/avantibrakeproject/PBRcalipers/stainlesssteelbraidedlines.JPG

Tom


quote:Originally posted by gordr

I'm sure glad to see this has been resolved. What Phil has described in his latest post is called a "banjo fitting", because it is basically a thick round disc with a stem on it, thus somewhat resembling the shape of a banjo (the musical instrument). They are not much used on modern vehicles, but old British cars had plenty of them