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View Full Version : Top shifter for a T96?



stude_54
09-27-2005, 03:08 PM
Has anyone heard of a top shifter for the T96 OD transmission? The closest thing I have seen yet is a 4 bolt shifter from a T84, but it doesn't have the rails or forks needed for the T96. Can't use a T86 ... its too big.

gordr
09-27-2005, 09:45 PM
Honestly, I don't think there is one. You MIGHT be able to put your T96 gearset into a Jeep T84 case, but that's pure speculation on my part, and even the Jeep guys tend to regard the T84 as rather fragile and tricky to shift.

I think, potentially at least, one could modify the top shifter cover from a Volvo M40 or M41 tranny to work on the T96. This would probably involve a lot of work, to say the least.

I actually have an M41 tranny (with the Laycock deNormanville overdrive) sitting in my shop. The input shaft has the same spline as a Stude T96, but it's a tad shorter. Pilot bushing diameter is different, as is the bolt pattern and driveshaft flange. Again, a lot of work is involved, but the idea of a fully-synchronized 4 speed transmission with electric overdrive holds a certain amount of appeal. And they are rugged transmissions, which cannot be said for the T96.

I was going to do that swap into a '53 Champion sedan. but other projects took precedence. Need that round tuit!

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

stude_54
09-28-2005, 12:24 AM
Thanks Gord!

I had not heard of using a Volvo transmission. The reason for the choice of T96 is that the bolt pattern is identical to the T84, the spline count and diameter are the same, and the pilot shaft diameters are also the same (0.625 inches). In addition the input shaft bearing housing on each tranny appears to be the same with the exception of a small ball cast into the T84 (for the clutch pivot?) Those could have been swapped.

The overall LENGTH of the input shafts, splines, and the pilot are different as follows (as well as I could measure with the shafts still in their cases):

input shaft total length
T84 = 7 inches; T96 = 3/8 inches

spline length
T84 = 2 1/2 inches; T96 = 1 3/4 inches

pilot (part of input) length
T84 = 1 inch; T96 = 1 1/4 inches


Sounds like I need to get the bolt pattern dimensions as well as the input shaft particulars. The pilot bushing diameter is different .... larger or smaller than the T96? I am going to do some diameter measurements on the spline and collar but the battery is dead in the micrometer so that is a project for tomorrow.

Do you have the bolt pattern and input shaft dimensions for the M41?

gordr
09-28-2005, 05:18 AM
stude_54,

I'm not at home, and will remain here at work for a few days yet. I could measure up the M41 once I'm home. My micrometer doesn't use batteries.[:I]

What are you planning to use the top-shift tranny in, anyway? I sort of assumed it was a Champion, but maybe you are doing a Jeep. I'm doing one myself, you know. Mine has a T90. I do have a T84 side shift tranny out of a Weasel, and another from a '40 Champion. Should measure them up, too, I guess.

The Volvo transmissions I speak of are found in Volvos from the '60s to the late '80s, roughly speaking. And in the earlier years, Volvo hewed much more to American design practice than other European car makers. They used U.N.C. threads, for example, on major mechanical components right into the '70s. The tranny in question has a cast iron case, mounts by 4 screws that thread into the bellhousing, although, I think at some point they switched to screws with heads in the clutch area, threaded back into the tranny case. I'll have to check. The aluminum top cover came with a long stick that came up out of a ball socket right over the gears, but that could interchange with a "remote control" type shifter that had a short stick back near the seat which worked the shift rails via a long rod in bushings. That sort of flexibility is nice for folks building custom projects.

Anyway, I'll try to remember to check back into this thread once I get home. Feel free to drop me an e-mail in a week or so to jog my memory, if you wish.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

stude_54
09-28-2005, 02:12 PM
Gord,

OK, when you get home shoot me a message. Thanks again!

stude_54
09-29-2005, 12:43 AM
Gord,

Forgot to mention .... its going into a '37 Willys sedan with the factory 4 cylinder

stude_54
10-01-2005, 01:50 AM
Gord,

OK ..... I probably should have bought a lottery ticket today. I found a pressure plate, disk AND throwout bearing at Clutch and Brake Supply (in Seattle) ON THE SHELF for my '35 Dictator. Then I went to Valley Gear to get some bearings for my T86E project and happened to mention that I was looking for a shifter for a T96. The guy says "oh yeah I can get you one of those .... and its brand new in the box"!

So he makes a call to get a price and the guy he needs to talk to isn't in. So I ask him, what does this come out of? "Oh its industrial equipment. But they used to put 'em in Gibson tractors". So I look up Gibson tractors on the net and sure enough, here is an ad for one from 2004:

............................
Gibson Western American garden tractor. This has the brass Western American ID tag. Has factory installed Wisconsin model AHH engine, T96 transmission, 2 new 24" rear tires, engine tuned, new paint, looks & runs good, a very rare Gibson, $2000 obo.
..........................................

Anyway, he is going to get me a price for a new one on Monday. Now I haven't actually seen it yet but he says the top shifter forks will line right up after removing the side forks. I suspect that reverse will need to be locked out as is done in the T86 O.D setup but haven't verified that yet.

Go figure!

DEEPNHOCK
10-01-2005, 06:48 AM
Wow!
Keep us filled in as this progresses....
This could solve a lot of problems for some.
Jeff[8D]


quote:Originally posted by stude_54

Gord,
<snip>
So he makes a call to get a price and the guy he needs to talk to isn't in. So I ask him, what does this come out of? "Oh its industrial equipment. But they used to put 'em in Gibson tractors". So I look up Gibson tractors on the net and sure enough, here is an ad for one from 2004:

............................
Gibson Western American garden tractor. This has the brass Western American ID tag. Has factory installed Wisconsin model AHH engine, T96 transmission, 2 new 24" rear tires, engine tuned, new paint, looks & runs good, a very rare Gibson, $2000 obo.
..........................................

Anyway, he is going to get me a price for a new one on Monday. Now I haven't actually seen it yet but he says the top shifter forks will line right up after removing the side forks. I suspect that reverse will need to be locked out as is done in the T86 O.D setup but haven't verified that yet.

Go figure!



DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
'37 Coupe Express
'37 Coupe Express Trailer
'61 Hawk
http://community.webshots.com/photo/42559113/426827941Lsvfrz
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

gordr
10-01-2005, 08:16 AM
Wow! My sentiments exactly. I sure hope that works out for you, and I'm sure if it does, the entire supply of Gibson tractor shift covers will evaporate:D

I know when I converted a T90 top shift cover to go on a T86, I was able to weld a dogleg-shaped "finger" on the first-reverse shift fork that would actuate the OD shift rail when reverse was selected. Worked just fine. The same approach should work on the T96 cover.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

stude_54
10-06-2005, 12:30 AM
Just got the price for the T96 top shifter from Valley Gear .... $365 !! Boy are they proud of those things! Guess its time to start looking for Gibson tractor parts after all.

The T86 is back together and ready to go into the '35 but the x-member frame crossmember sure is making things interesting. Had to move the stock tranny mount hangers forward and re-used the 2 forward holes in each hanger as the new rear holes before drilling a new set. This required a wider hanger for the T86. Buzzed off all the rivets on the lower cross member plate (for the x-member) to make room for the overdrive tailshaft .... it will be bolted back into place. The solenoid and governor will require holes to be bored in the center of the x-member channel(one on each side, driver's and passenger). Hope to be done with the mechanicals by the weekend.

bbwwjd
10-09-2005, 10:28 PM
stude54----I have a T-96 from a gibson tractor.Make me an offer Butch

bbwwjd
10-12-2005, 07:21 PM
one more try! I have a T-96 tranny for sale from a gibson. bbwwjd@peoplepc.com

DEEPNHOCK
10-12-2005, 08:30 PM
Where are you at Butch (so I can figure freight before making you a rediculously cheap offer;))
Jeff[8D]


quote:Originally posted by bbwwjd

one more try! I have a T-96 tranny for sale from a gibson. bbwwjd@peoplepc.com


DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
'37 Coupe Express
'37 Coupe Express Trailer
'61 Hawk
http://community.webshots.com/photo/42559113/426827941Lsvfrz
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

David Hammond
10-10-2006, 09:31 PM
quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK


Where are you at Butch (so I can figure freight before making you a rediculously cheap offer;))
Jeff[8D]


quote:Originally posted by bbwwjd

one more try! I have a T-96 tranny for sale from a gibson. bbwwjd@peoplepc.com


DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
'37 Coupe Express
'37 Coupe Express Trailer
'61 Hawk
http://community.webshots.com/photo/42559113/426827941Lsvfrz
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

kamzack
10-11-2006, 11:37 AM
Hey S54,

I've been working on an M5 for a few weeks now and it has a T96 with the original M5 floor shifter in it. Yes you do have to pull it out of overdrive to get reverse, cause there's a difference in top load fork and side as previously mentioned. So, go for it, you should have no problems. Hope this helps.
Kim

garyash
10-12-2006, 07:58 AM
Here's some info I put together on modifying a T86-1D transmission to use the T90 floor shift in my M5 - and keep the reverse lock-out in place:
http://www.studegarage.com/overdrive.htm

[img=left]http://www.studegarage.com/images/gary_ash_m5_sm.jpg[/img=left] Gary Ash
Dartmouth, Mass.
'48 M5
'65 Wagonaire Commander
'63 Wagonaire Standard
web site at http://www.studegarage.com

studeclunker
10-13-2006, 03:58 PM
Gary, the musical accompanyment was a nice touch. King of the road indeed!



Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith