Brakes: Turner disc and dual master setup. Pedal effort question

[kirkdob]

I realize my question is subjective, but let's try anyway. I have a 57 Golden Hawk that currently has stock drum and Hydrovac booster. I am planning on installing the Turner front disc and dual master kits. Therefore I am giving up power brakes. For those with this setup, how is the pedal effort compared to having a booster?
Are you glad you did the conversion from a brake performance perspective? I already know I'll feel better having a dual system for safety purposes.

Thanks!

Kirk

[Flashback]

I did a 4 wheel disc. conversion on my 53. Of course it didn't have power. But I can compare to
many others I have driven. The pedal effort on mine is very noticeably harder. But I still would
do it again w/o power. Just my opinion.

[Mike Van Veghten]

There's a coupla different books out on (hot rod) brakes.
I'd suggest reading one of them.

I've got disc front and rear on my Conestoga with a twin piston, master cylinder.
No power stuff at all...the brakes work great, with "toe" effort. That is, you don't need to stand on the pedal, your toes are plenty..!
Over feel...somewhere between no power and good power effort feel.

You have to do just a little (easy !) math to size the master cylinder correctly to the caliper piston size(s). Then make sure the pedal length is within the required length.
Not that difficult.

As I recall, there's some good info in the Wilwood Brake site also.

Mike

[oldguy]

Very subjective. I'm not a stude pro, but generally the pedal is longer on a non power car to give better leverage. Also discs require more power. Going from power drums to non power discs doesn't sound good to me.
Your best bet is to call Turner, they will steer you in the right direction.

[Mike Van Veghten]

Oldguy -

Do some homework...
It's not subjective at all..!
It's just simple math.

And for what it's worth....disc brakes DON'T require power assist.

There's tons of non-power assisted brake race cars out there that will proove my point.

Mike

[studegary]

I have owned a couple of US made cars built with disc brakes without power assist.
I am a believer in split brake systems, as long as you do not want to stay stock.
I would put the dual master cylinder in and forget about the discs.

[kirkdob]

Oldguy -

Do some homework...
It's not subjective at all..!
It's just simple math.

And for what it's worth....disc brakes DON'T require power assist.

There's tons of non-power assisted brake race cars out there that will proove my point.

Mike

Well, It is subjective as opinions given relate to individual perspective. I don't know the math to answer the question if I'm going to need to leg press for all I'm worth or if it will be require light to moderate pedal effort. I am really looking for opinions, and assumed there may be a few here with similar cars and setups that could offer some. I read your earlier response and it sounds like your wagon turned out well. BTW the Conestoga is one of my favorite Studes. I'll be using the Turner dual M/C kit that comes with the master and new pedal assembly. I would assume they have the leverage issue dialed in since they know we can't use their system with a booster.
The last non power disc car I drove was a 64 Corvette, and it was a bear to stop.

[WCP]

IMO if you are driving in todays traffic and behind vehicles with 4-wheel disc brakes, it is just common sense to have all the clamping force you can in the braking department. You may save a few bucks on a brake booster and then lose by rear-ending someone whose stopped abruptly in front of you.

[kirkdob]

It's not a matter of saving a few bucks, it is I don't know of how to adapt a booster to an undercar master cylinder. The old system was easy via Hydrovac, but that won't work on a split system.

[1954khardtop]

There is a remote booster for split systems, I've seen it advertised in Street Rodder magazine. As I recall it's kind of pricey. You could try the car without it, and add it later if needed. Another idea if you have power steering is a hydra-boost master cylinder from a Chevy Astro Van or diesel pickup.

[starliner62]

I put non power discs on my brand X 59 Ranchero. It stops better than it ever has and with little pedal effort. The spindles came off of a 77 T-Bird and I don't remember what the master cylinder came from.

[WCP]

If a booster is not practical or available, reduce the M/C diameter to increase line pressure and reduce pedal effort. The pedal stroke will increase some, so there is a compromise.

[r1lark]

Back in the late '60s/early '70s I drove several cars with non-power front disc brakes. I actually prefer them. Favorite was my hopped up Datsun 510 with manual front discs.

[johnesmonde]

I have a 62 Hawk and did the same conversion you are contemplating. I was very pleased. Non-power disc/ drum combo trumps power drum by far. Pedal presssure reasonable. At first it was terrible and I didn't know why but I found out I needed to change the original brake pedal (for power brakes) to a standard brake pedal (non-power). The lever ratio is different. Night and day difference.

[ToGa 42]

I concur with John Esmonde's comments on the pedal being different on a Hydrovac booster equipped Hawk. Someone had removed the Hydrovac from my Hawk, with stock drum brakes. It was all but impossible to stop. I talked with Jim Turner @ the South Bend show, and he advised me about the difference in the pedals. I have changed it, and it now stops good, not like a Turner Disk Brake Conversion, but adequate for the way I use the vehicle. I believe you would be well satisfied with the manual disc, if you change the pedal. I would highly recommend using his products. he has a wealth of knowledge that he is more than happy to share.
Tom T