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Dick Steinkamp
05-12-2007, 07:49 PM
Installed the slapper bars (traction bars) in S2D today.

If anybody else is doing this to a 51 and up car, you'll need a 1/2" spacer between the bar and the spring drilled for the slapper bar u-bolts in order for the bar to clear the shock mount/sway bar mount bracket on the bottom of the axle.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/217/495425127_8f0cc215eb.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/208/495425131_0c74993f67.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/224/495425123_334f7f6cda.jpg

I wasn't able to get the slaper bar rubber bumper to line up exactly with the front spring eye as is recommended due to the fact that the bar isn't quite long enough AND there is a frame plate that covers the spring eye.

The rubber bumper to spring distance is somewhat adjustable with fender washers. I've got it set at about 1/2" now. Any recommendations on this?

Road testing tomorrow.



http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Alan
05-12-2007, 08:36 PM
Get on that thing a few times and you will bend the springs.

41 Frank
05-12-2007, 09:22 PM
Since I don't use the Stude springs in my 41 Champion but use Chassis Engineering ones my problem was that I also could not slide the bars (same as Dicks) far enough ahead for the snubber to line up under the spring eye but I was only off less than an inch so simply redrilled a hole for the snubber a little farther forward. Only problem I have now is that the car rides like a bucking bronco and since I don't have a paid up membership in the professional rodeo association :DI think I will be shimming mine as not to have them preloaded as much as is the case currently.
On the track they work great, no sign of wheel hop. I didn't get instructions from Summit with mine so I will have to wing it[^]


Frank van Doorn
1962 GT Hawk 4 speed
1963 Daytona Conv
1941 Champion R-2 Rod

Dick Steinkamp
05-12-2007, 09:46 PM
I'm about an inch back from the spring eye. Not the best set up, but I think I'd need a lot more horsepower than what I have to bend the spring. I have about 220 at the rear wheels.

I'll see how these work tomorrow with the 1/2" gap...both in terms of ride and launch.





http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

41 Frank
05-12-2007, 09:55 PM
Since you say 220hp at the rear wheels,the calculator says 218.73hp on the 41 so this means you have me by 1.27hp, you should beat me
easily Dick :D by the way do you have your own private test facility?[:o)]

Frank van Doorn
1962 GT Hawk 4 speed
1963 Daytona Conv
1941 Champion R-2 Rod

Dick Steinkamp
05-12-2007, 10:42 PM
quote:Originally posted by 41 Frank

Since you say 220hp at the rear wheels,the calculator says 218.73hp on the 41 so this means you have me by 1.27hp, you should beat me
easily Dick :D by the way do you have your own private test facility?[:o)]


I had it on a chassis dyno when the car was fresh about 6 years ago. That's what it was making then. Probably less now.

The dyno pulls were up to about 5000 rpm when both HP and torque started falling off. HP peaked about 4400. Torque peaked at 280 ft pounds at about 3200.

S2D weighs 3253 without me in it but with about 60 pounds of fuel. 3450 would be a good "race weight". Probably heavier than the '41. Also, I think most automatics are better drag race cars than sticks (unless you can shift like Ted Harbit [:p])...and that TH2004R is one of the best.

What are your 60' times now, Frank?



http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

41 Frank
05-12-2007, 10:56 PM
41 weight was 3260 with 8 gallons of fuel but without slapper bars installed and spare in trunk, without driver (add 160#)about the same weight as Teds tomato and Georges PBW.Originally car factory weight was around 2390 according to James Moloneys book.So I added a lot of weight with AC ,P/S, P/B and 289 engine, almost 1000# if one is to believe the figure listed in the book. My 60' times are currently at a best of 2.229.

Frank van Doorn
1962 GT Hawk 4 speed
1963 Daytona Conv
1941 Champion R-2 Rod

sbca96
05-13-2007, 03:07 AM
I had them on my 60 Hawk, and broke one of the smaller leafs. Then I
got a set of heavy duty springs and they held up. The ones I got are
fully adjustable, but I had to make brackets to eliminate the adjuster
because no matter HOW tight I got the bolts, the adjuster would max
out after a couple hard take offs[:I]. That would leave the slapper
bar hanging down like a kick stand. They lined up with the front eye.

I plan on using something like a Cal Trac on the Avanti.

http://www.calvertracing.com/

http://www.calvertracing.com/info/caltracsbar.gif

1. The Front Pivot

Two steel plates sandwich the leaf spring sides. Two attach points in the plates provide the user with a selection in which the forward Force Transfer Link rod end can be located. A machined aluminum spring eye bushing and steel insert supports the front of the spring while allowing the plates to pivot. A spring stop bolt controls and restricts spring wrap-up. Spacers are provided for different vehicle applications that control clearances in the front spring eye pocket.

2. Force Transfer Link

This is a length of chromolly tubing with CNC machined threaded inserts TIG welded into each end. The front Insert is machined with right hand Threads and a HEX outer shape for Simple wrench adjustment of the Installed assembly. The rear insert is Left hand threaded. Opposite thread Styles at each end provide the means to easily lengthen or shorten the link for desired pre-load adjustment.


3. Rear Mount

A welded ľ" steel assembly replaces the original vehicles spring perch and incorporates the mounting provisions for the rear rod end of the Force Transfer Link.

Tom

'63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: 97 Z28 T-56 6-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires

41 Frank
05-13-2007, 10:31 AM
I don't see an application for Studes on Caltracs website Tom and since you have to use their front spring bushing that could be a problem, guess one could be fabricated[8D]

Dick Steinkamp
05-13-2007, 10:55 AM
quote:Originally posted by 41 Frank

I don't see an application for Studes on Caltracs website Tom and since you have to use their front spring bushing that could be a problem, guess one could be fabricated[8D]


I did consider those CalTracs.

It would not be impossible to fit them to a late Studebaker...but a lot of fabricating and some "reinvention of the wheel" to get the geometry correct again for the Stude. You'd have to find one "close" then start cutting and welding. The tough part would be that the front spring eye on a late Stude is "buried" under a part of the frame. I can't visualize how to overcome that to install the CalTracs without some major major work.

In the articles I read, there was no difference in 60' times between slapper bars and CalTracs. If I had unlimited time and money and a lot more HP, I'd do the CalTracs. I don't have any of the above :D

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

DEEPNHOCK
05-13-2007, 11:14 AM
Paint them black, Dick....
Jeff[8D]

Dick Steinkamp
05-13-2007, 11:16 AM
quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK

[b]Paint them black, Dick....


For sure! I want to dial them in, then I'll take them off, cut the U bolts to length and paint them.

(they sort of do have that "boy racer" look now ;))

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

41 Frank
05-13-2007, 11:37 AM
Same here, wife says they look weird in yellow, so will paint them black also, when momma is happy everyone is happy! Anyone know how much if any pressure should be on the rubber snubber when at rest?
Since my snubber sits directly under the front spring eye it puts tension on everything when u-bolts are tightened.[:0]


quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp


quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK

[b]Paint them black, Dick....


For sure! I want to dial them in, then I'll take them off, cut the U bolts to length and paint them.

(they sort of do have that "boy racer" look now ;))

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Flat Ernie
05-13-2007, 12:19 PM
Back in my youth, the slapper bars were a common "upgrade" to the Camaros, Firebirds, & Mustangs of the day - I remember 1/2" to 5/8" as the suggested ballpark initial setting...

Daddy always said, if yer gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough & I'm one tough sumbitch!

41 Frank
05-13-2007, 12:44 PM
Back in my youth I was too poor to have store bought stuff also not nearly as much stuff was available as these days Ernie. When I used to race Studes at the drags in the 60's I made my own traction bars with used tie rods and a stick welder.I guess I'm dating myself here again. I will work on spacing mine out tomorrow.Wish I would have gotten a set of instructions with mine, oh well I'll get it sorted out. In a couple of weeks they are having "Old Geezer Drags" here with a flag start if you want or pro tree, I'll enter and get some more practice in. In about an hour its time to go on tour with my GT Hawk with the local Antique car club for the afternoon.[8D]



quote:Originally posted by Flat Ernie

Back in my youth, the slapper bars were a common "upgrade" to the Camaros, Firebirds, & Mustangs of the day - I remember 1/2" to 5/8" as the suggested ballpark initial setting...

Daddy always said, if yer gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough & I'm one tough sumbitch!

Swifster
05-13-2007, 12:52 PM
I remember them in my youth as well. They were always yellow, red or blue :D. I'd paint them black too. With the vintage look of your car Dick, I like the bars you have. I may have to get a set of those as well. The newer ones pictured above just don't have the look. I'd gladly give up a tenth or two to have the right look vs something that just looks out of place.

:(I'm jealous! ;)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Valrico, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/1965_Studebaker_Commander_front198x.jpg

DEEPNHOCK
05-13-2007, 01:29 PM
http://www.hotrod.com/howto/69798_traction_bars_install/
http://www.hotrod.com/howto/p140685_image_large.jpg
(copy)
Install the rubber snubber and lift the differential housing until the weight of the car is on the leaf springs. There should be approximately 1/2 inch of clearance between the snubber and the leaf spring. If there isnít, modify the snubber or the bar will have to be shimmed under the spring mounting pad with degree wedges used for heavy-truck front-end alignment (available where this work is done). Also, notice that the snubber contacts the spring directly under the eye to minimize spring bending and to improve launch consistency.
Also... For more fun reading try using Google and type in:
slapper bar snubber adjustment

Hope the info helps.
Jeff[8D]


quote:Originally posted by 41 Frank

Same here, wife says they look weird in yellow, so will paint them black also, when momma is happy everyone is happy! Anyone know how much if any pressure should be on the rubber snubber when at rest?
Since my snubber sits directly under the front spring eye it puts tension on everything when u-bolts are tightened.[:0]


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/Jeff%20Rice%20Studebaker%20Pictures/1937StudebakerCoupeExpressJeffRicee.jpg

DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
Brooklet, Georgia
'37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
'37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
'61 Hawk (project)
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

Dick Steinkamp
05-13-2007, 01:46 PM
quote:Originally posted by 41 Frank
when momma is happy everyone is happy!

Happy wife...happy life [^]


quote:
Anyone know how much if any pressure should be on the rubber snubber when at rest?


No instructions with mine either, Frank, but noodling around on the web, I see everything from 1 1/2" to preload them.

I tried mine today. It was a huge difference [8D]. I like them [^].

Two problems, however.

I have about 1/2" space between the snubber and the spring...it happens to be about the same distance between the front of the bar and the bottom of the frame...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/232/496501209_5ae7d5a63a.jpg

The bar front hits the frame about the same time the snubber hits the spring. Note the mark of the snubber on the spring and the yellow paint on the frame :(. It makes a "clunk" every time it bottoms.

The other problem is that I still have a tiny bit of spring wind up and wheel hop. Probably not enough to worry about, but I'll worry about it.

I've drilled another hole in the front of the bar to reposition the snubber as far forward as possible. The snubber still can't reach the frame under the spring eye, but even if it could, the bar would have to be super low and would be dragging on the ground a lot. I'll position the snubber just behind the frame and very close to the front spring eye.

The ride was fine with 1/2" clearance. The snubber did come up on the spring on some larger bumps, but not a big deal. You could hear it when the front of the bar hit the frame, but couldn't feel it. I think with the adjustment to the snubber so that the bar doesn't hit the frame that the ride will be fine.

OTOH, I may still have the little wheel hop with it this way. The solution may be to shim up the snubber at the track (note the fender washers under the snubber), and to take the washers out on the street.

More experimenting tomorrow.

It's Mother's Day.

Happy wife...Happy life :)

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Karl
05-13-2007, 03:34 PM
Cut the tip just aft of the frame. dick. that what I did on the Twin.And the Cal tracs wont work on the Avanti frame.I will post some picture after bit. I also cut the front mount and moved it closer to the axle. improve the ride by not clamping so much of the spring.
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o50/twnchgr/100_0152.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o50/twnchgr/100_0153.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o50/twnchgr/100_0154.jpg

63 Twin Supercharged Avanti
64 Avanti R3w/NOS
88LSC Avanti 350 Supercharged w/NOS

Roscomacaw
05-13-2007, 04:01 PM
Uhhh..... is there something "special" about the square tubing employed here??? It's an honest question, 'cause I don't know.

Reason I ask is I'd go down to Suburban pipe and steel, buy a section of appropriate-sized tubing and make my own. I've got lots of extra spring perch plates around here that the slappers could be welded to - clean up a set, cut the tubes to the correct length and cut them so that the front cut slants upwards toward the rear of the car. That way the snubber could be forward enough (nestled INSIDE the tube) to nail the frame, right where the spring eye is and yet allow the back-cut, upper side of the tube to clear the back edge of that frame plate. Or am I missing something here???[B)]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

sbca96
05-13-2007, 04:08 PM
Well .. the Cal Tracs are a dream, sometimes reality gets in the way.;)

Here are the chrome slappers on the Hawk :

http://hometown.aol.com/sbca96/images/60Hawk/60Hawkbefore.jpg

Tom

Dick Steinkamp
05-13-2007, 06:59 PM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs
Or am I missing something here???[B)]


Nope. The generic slapper bars from Summit are cheap ($35) They will probably work fine with some minor mods.

The BEST way, however, would be to fabricate a custom set like you suggest. I'm not sure your plan would keep the bar far enough off the road but some version of it would, I'm sure.

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

41 Frank
05-13-2007, 08:01 PM
The bars Dick and I bought clamp to the spring leaves in front and back of the spring perch plate stratling it Bob, but your idea sure has merit, also I don't have the interference problem he has with the body support getting in the way so I will just lower mine down a bit with washers to get a half inch of clearance and check the website Jeff suggested.[8D] Maybe snubber needs to be real close to the spring to prevent wheel hop because I am not experiencing that like Dick is.:(


quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

Uhhh..... is there something "special" about the square tubing employed here??? It's an honest question, 'cause I don't know.

Reason I ask is I'd go down to Suburban pipe and steel, buy a section of appropriate-sized tubing and make my own. I've got lots of extra spring perch plates around here that the slappers could be welded to - clean up a set, cut the tubes to the correct length and cut them so that the front cut slants upwards toward the rear of the car. That way the snubber could be forward enough (nestled INSIDE the tube) to nail the frame, right where the spring eye is and yet allow the back-cut, upper side of the tube to clear the back edge of that frame plate. Or am I missing something here???[B)]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Flat Ernie
05-13-2007, 09:35 PM
quote:Originally posted by 41 Frank

Back in my youth I was too poor to have store bought stuff also not nearly as much stuff was available as these days Ernie.

So was I! But I had plenty of friends who weren't mechanically inclined, but did have a little more money than I did! :D

Seems like making your own as Mr. Biggs suggests is easy enough...

Daddy always said, if yer gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough & I'm one tough sumbitch!

41 Frank
05-13-2007, 09:49 PM
I had friends with neither money nor mechanical knowledge so I was on my own so to speak, now I have some resources and some knowledge from the school of hard knocks so I have made some progress, drag raced in the 60's and did the roundy round thing for 10 years after that when I got bored with racing Studes at the drags and the factory closed so the parts situation dried up. (or so I thought)[:o)]


quote:Originally posted by Flat Ernie


quote:Originally posted by 41 Frank

Back in my youth I was too poor to have store bought stuff also not nearly as much stuff was available as these days Ernie.

So was I! But I had plenty of friends who weren't mechanically inclined, but did have a little more money than I did! :D

Seems like making your own as Mr. Biggs suggests is easy enough...

Daddy always said, if yer gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough & I'm one tough sumbitch!

Dick Steinkamp
05-13-2007, 10:38 PM
quote:Originally posted by 41 Frank
so I will just lower mine down a bit with washers


Frank,
I made 4 of these out of 1" x 1/2" stock to space mine down....

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/229/497274169_1908fcc0cd.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/189/497274173_34bcfeba3e.jpg



http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
05-13-2007, 11:06 PM
quote:Originally posted by Karl

Cut the tip just aft of the frame. dick. that what I did on the Twin.And the Cal tracs wont work on the Avanti frame.I will post some picture after bit. I also cut the front mount and moved it closer to the axle. improve the ride by not clamping so much of the spring.


Thanks, Karl. I'll get mine back together tomorrow AM and do a little more experimenting. Good tips [^] !

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Karl
05-13-2007, 11:32 PM
Dicks right $35 is cheap by comparison. And they are bolt on.I used bolts to holt them in place. broke one of the U bolts they come with. But they well work for awhile.Dick checked the bars,I moved the front mounts back two inchs.
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o50/twnchgr/100_0156.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o50/twnchgr/100_0155.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o50/twnchgr/100_0157.jpg
As Ernie said you want about 1/2" to the snubbers. Or it will preload the springs nad lift the body.



63 Twin Supercharged Avanti
64 Avanti R3w/NOS
88LSC Avanti 350 Supercharged w/NOS

41 Frank
05-13-2007, 11:33 PM
That should work great Dick, I'll see if I can round up some of that bar stock this week although I may need more than that as the spring eye where my snubber is is lower of course,in another development I have also dropped my tire diameter by 4" to get from 3.73 to a little better than 4.10 if Ted's calculations are on the mark. I now find myself shifting into third before the 1/8 mile mark. Karls advice is pretty good too but then he has been at it a while.;)See you got the paint can out and painted the bars already.:)



quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp


quote:Originally posted by 41 Frank
so I will just lower mine down a bit with washers


Frank,
I made 4 of these out of 1" x 1/2" stock to space mine down....

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/229/497274169_1908fcc0cd.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/189/497274173_34bcfeba3e.jpg



http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
05-14-2007, 10:39 AM
The U bolts that come with the bars are pretty whimpy. I like how Karl has solved that problem.

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

41 Frank
05-14-2007, 11:02 AM
Guess all you have to do is make 4 more of the bar stock spacers you made earlier Dick and you are done. I personally don't think that with my non-violent launches with automatic that they would break. I may yet do it however, never say never[8D]Gotta find barstock and drill press.


quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

The U bolts that come with the bars are pretty whimpy. I like how Karl has solved that problem.

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
05-14-2007, 01:15 PM
Done!

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/221/498157516_aefcdaf1d9.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/208/498157524_fcbaa34f7c.jpg

You can see where I notched the shock mount just a little to insure the bar cleared that bracket.

No change in the ride quality from not having the bars. No noises. Hooks good [:p].



http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

41 Frank
05-14-2007, 01:32 PM
Looks good Dick, you are scaring me with your efficiency,:( got mine off and it looks like half inch spacers will do it. My snubbers don't quite make it to being under the spring eye either as I indicated earlier but my springs have the second leaf going all the way to the eye which gives that area of the spring more strength something the Stude springs don't do.After lunch I'm off to search for bar stock.
Where did you get yours? Big box hdwe store or?

gordr
05-14-2007, 01:57 PM
Dick, regarding the interference between the nose of the slapper bar and the flange on the frame: how about making a shim of 3/8 or 7/16" thick steel, and clamp it to the underside of the spring above the rubber snubber? Make the shim just long enough to reach from the spring eye to the end of the second leaf, and grind a bevel on the topside to accomodate the second leaf. Hose clamps should suffice to clamp them on, at least for test purposes. They would prevent the end of the bar from interfering with the frame flange, and would also stiffen the front end of the spring against flexing caused by the snubber, and make the bars possibly more consistent in their action. And it wouldn't be hard to try them.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

Dick Steinkamp
05-14-2007, 02:18 PM
quote:Originally posted by 41 Frank
Where did you get yours? Big box hdwe store or?


Actually I have a buddy who has a machine shop. He made them for me and I traded him some Stude literature.

You probably have to go to a general purpose machine shop to find the bar stock.

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
05-14-2007, 02:19 PM
quote:Originally posted by gordr
how about making a shim of 3/8 or 7/16" thick steel, and clamp it to the underside of the spring above the rubber snubber?


Good idea, Gord! I'll give it a try.

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

DEEPNHOCK
05-14-2007, 08:49 PM
You also might consider a thin strip of rubber or plastic in between the bracket mount and the spring (that same shape as the block(s) you made)...if the ride is harsh.
Should take a lot of the harsh feeling out of the ride for street use.
Jeff[8D]

Dick Steinkamp
05-14-2007, 10:53 PM
quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK
Should take a lot of the harsh feeling out of the ride for street use.


The ride didn't get any harsher...in fact I don't notice any difference (but then I am a little numb :)). I'll put some more miles on it, and if I start noticing some harshness I'll try your idea. Thanks!

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

DEEPNHOCK
05-17-2007, 08:32 AM
One question....
Why the overload springs on the shocks?
Jeff[8D]

Dick Steinkamp
05-17-2007, 10:16 AM
quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK
Why the overload springs on the shocks?


These cars are a little "floaty" :D stock. Gas shocks, cutting the front coils, and a GT Hawk front bar helped a lot. I added these coils to tighten it up a little more. I guess I could have added the rear bar, bigger rear shocks, HD leaf springs...but these seem to have done the trick for me.

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

sbca96
05-17-2007, 12:17 PM
A little?[:p]

Thats why I am going to adapt Bilstein shocks onto the Avanti, and go
with either the Tbow sway bars, or adapt some bars that match the size
and weight of the Avanti. What Studebaker used on the Avanti was just
marginal at best, my 60 Hawk was laughable even after the upgrades you
mentioned. I didnt realize it until I rode in my then GF's '86 IROC.
After buying a '93 Camaro Z28 I got to see how the 'other' guys live,
and I LIKED it! I hope, with some luck and hard work, I will be able
to get the little Avanti to outhandle my Titanic Impala SS. If you do
a search on the slalom and other test results, thats no small feat!

Tom


quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp
These cars are a little "floaty" :D stock. Gas shocks, cutting the front coils, and a GT Hawk front bar helped a lot.