Hmmm, what's with this R2 cam some have mentioned?

[MagikDraggin]

Is this something that is readily available and is it something that I could install, or at least have installed, on (in) my 4sp '62 Hawk 289 4bbl motor?

If so, what is required besides the cam itself to effect this change? A little more "aggressive" sound at idle would suit me just fine.

Karl


1962 GT Hawk 4sp

[sbca96]

Are you refering to the R2 plus?

http://www.fairbornstudebaker.com/index.htm

Tom

'63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: 97 Z28 T-56 6-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires

[bige]

I have Ted's R2.5 cam in my Avanti. I was surprised to hear about the idle lope. My car idles very smoothly not at all like a long duration cam?!

ErnieR

[John Kirchhoff]

Just remember that a true cam induced "lope" at idle if the result of too much valve overlap, in other words, the intake and exahust valves are both open at the same time. At high rpm's the inertia behind the moving exhaust and intake flow helps clear and fill the cylinder more completely, resulting in more power. However, at low rpm's that desirable high rpm valve overlap lets some of the intake charge go out the exhaust as well as some of the combustion charge, resulting in less power and poorer fuel economy. I believe an R2 cam is rather mild compared to some with a more radical grind, but invariably there's always a give-take situation with engines (as well as most other things in life), in other words, there ain't nuttin' free. A radical cam is going to allow an engine to make more power at a higher rpm than the same engine with a mild cam, but it will also make less power at low rpm than one with a mild cam. The only way to get around that is with the variable cam timing technology these days.

As an example, Japan has restrictions on the engine displacement of domestic motorcycles sold in that country. To overcome the limitted horsepower potential of such a small engine, they have 250cc, 4 cylinder engines that will rev to 20,000-25,000 rpm and make substantial horsepower. Needless to say, this requires camshafts that make a so called radical automobile cam seem as exciting as milk toast. On the down side, idle speed is often 5,000 rpm and they don't make any kind of serious hp until 10,000-15,000 rpm. The powerband on those engines is as narrow as is my wallet. Needless to say, an engine with a power curve as steep as Mt Everest that brings on horsepower like flipping on a light switch is beyond difficult to operate and isn't something you want for stop and go, grocery fetching, in town driving or relaxed cruising.

You often see engines with a radical cam having a higher compression ratio than a mild one. The main reason for that is because the valve overlap lets some of the intake charge escape at low speeds which effectively reduced the compression ratio. So much for "effeciency".

As far as my own tastes go, a hopped up engine with a wild cam would probably be fun...for a bit. But for the going to work, running errands, try to save money on gas, running the speed limit driving I do, the novelty of that loping, high reving, won't pull the hat off your head at idle engine would wear off pretty quickly. If I want that ratty sound, I'll knock a hole in the muffler and pull a spark plug wire off! Ha!

[MagikDraggin]

quote:Originally posted by John Kirchhoff


As far as my own tastes go, a hopped up engine with a wild cam would probably be fun...for a bit. But for the going to work, running errands, try to save money on gas, running the speed limit driving I do, the novelty of that loping, high reving, won't pull the hat off your head at idle engine would wear off pretty quickly. If I want that ratty sound, I'll knock a hole in the muffler and pull a spark plug wire off! Ha!

That's funny, John, but unfortunately very true. It was just that in the "muffler thread", the comment was made in reference to some sort of R2 cam having quite a "lopey sound". I wasn't really all that concerned with what and where any performance could be found with it...just the sound itself is, shall I say, "attention getting", at a local cruise in.......something that one just wouldn't necessarily expect to hear coming from a Studebaker.

As far as your suggestion of "poking a hole in the muffler and yanking a spark-plug wire off"....nahhhh, I think I'll pass, heh, heh, heh. But that was indeed, funny!

Karl


1962 GT Hawk 4sp

[Chad Pead]

quote:Originally posted by bige

I have Ted's R2.5 cam in my Avanti. I was surprised to hear about the idle lope. My car idles very smoothly not at all like a long duration cam?!

ErnieR

[Chad Pead]

G'day does anyone know the specs for the R2 or R2+ camshaft as i would like it to get one gound for my Hawk,Thanks

quote:Originally posted by bige

I have Ted's R2.5 cam in my Avanti. I was surprised to hear about the idle lope. My car idles very smoothly not at all like a long duration cam?!

ErnieR

[JDP]

I'll post the specs if you promise not to steal the grind. it's plenty cheap from our vendors.

JDP/Maryland


63 GT R2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert-63
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

[sbca96]

Yah .. since they are available from a vendor, you might as well just
order it from them and send back your core (I assume they require a
core). This way you know it was done right. Years ago when I had my
R3 cam regrounded from a stock cam, there wasnt any available. We got
lucky finding a place in LA that still had a master! That was almost
20 years ago now .. doubtful it still exists. I also dont have the
info as to where it was sent off to. We had 4 done. I would venture
to say that you will spend as much having it done, as buying it ready.

Tom

[casey]

I can't resist replying to this one.

First, your GT is friggin gorgeous. I can say 'friggin', right?

Second, when I was getting the 289 rebuilt for my GT I sent the heads and cam to guy in California to 'hi-perf' every thing. At the time I didn't really know a lot about cams, and this guy talked me into an R3 cam. Well, it was a big, big mistake. When I finally got it all back together it just ran terrible at idle. I suppose it would have been a monster at 4000 RPM, but sitting at a light it was just embarrassing. And even if you don't mind the rough idle it causes vacum problems for power brakes and the auto trans.

So I ended up replacing the cam. And this is what I want to tell you- replacing the cam on a fully assembled car is akin to doing a heart transplant. You have to get down into the middle of everything. In my case, it set my project back TWO years- because I created all sorts of complications for myself, like chipping up the nice new paint in my engine compartment, busting an adjuster on one of the rocker stands, etc., etc. That was two years worth of cruising I could have been doing when gas was $1.59 a gallon.

So think twice and cut once.

[63LarkingAround]

JDP, I would be interested in the specs for the R2 cam. I would be happy to purchase from a vendor, however being in Australia, postage with cores etc mean it is more practical to have one ground locally.

Cheers
Lyndon

63 Lark Cruiser

[1956 Hawk]

Karl, to answer your original question. When changing the cam you have to have the lifters resurfaced, also if you are planning to rev the engine much over 5000rpm you should use the R2 valve springs. Of course to change the cam itself, you have to either pull the engine or the radiator. Also the waterjacket, vibration damper, timing cover, intake manifold, and valley cover have to be removed to get to the cam and lifters.
Remember that the R2 horsepower peak is around 5200rpm. My R2 pulls hard from 3000 to 5000rpm. However it will idle down to 500rpm. It just depends on what you want to do with the car.
David

[sbca96]

I am going to assume you had an R3 288 duration cam, I had mine ground
to 276 duration specs and had no noticable lope at all. It ran smooth
as glass and had oodles of power. Strange reading you had that much
trouble with yours - unless it was the 288. I didnt have any power
accessories though, but ran a TH700R4 trans and 3:31 axle.

I wasnt sure on the cost of shipping to and from Aussieland, I guess
it might make more sense to grind one there, if you can find a place
that will do it. There is a project that has been started on Racing
Studebakers forum to have a company in Australia make a run of custom
cams, I am going say roller cams, but dont remember the specifics.

Tom

quote:Originally posted by casey
At the time I didn't really know a lot about cams, and this guy talked me into an R3 cam. Well, it was a big, big mistake. When I finally got it all back together it just ran terrible at idle. I suppose it would have been a monster at 4000 RPM, but sitting at a light it was just embarrassing. And even if you don't mind the rough idle it causes vacum problems for power brakes and the auto trans.

[JDP]

Just shipped a fan and fan clutch to Australia for $52, a cam would be cheaper.

JDP/Maryland


63 GT R2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert-63
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

[63LarkingAround]

No worries, I'll have to check out the shipping, the exchange rate is improving for us over here!

Also I've been trying to access the racing studebakers forum, but I keep getting "you are banned" from this forum?????

Lyndon