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geojerry
05-07-2007, 10:18 AM
My 63 GT Hawk has no power brakes and the pedal is floor mounted.
Understand there is a Brake Conversion kit consisting of hanging pedal, brackets, master cylinder, power brake booster and hoses.
Anyone know if this kit is still available and where to find. Are there any articles on how to do this conversion ?[8D]

Thx,
Jerry

Dick Steinkamp
05-07-2007, 11:34 AM
There is no "kit" that I know of to firewall mount the brake pedal and master cylinder. In fact, I've never seen this done to a GT Hawk. There would be a lot of reinforcing needed to the firewall area, and much fabrication to mount a hanging pedal system. You'd have to relocate the battery and most likely a variety of other components and systems. Kugel Komponents (and others) do make a thru firewall mount brake system for hot rods and it could probably be retrofitted to your Hawk, but I don't know why you would want to do all that work.

If you currently have manual drum brakes and it takes too much pressure to stop the car, I would look for something wrong with your current brake system. Non power assist, drum brake Studes ('54 and up) are pretty sweet brakes. IMHO, pedal pressure is about equal to a modern power brake disk brake car. The self energizing feature of the brakes helps in this regard.

There are a variety of ways to add power brakes fairly easily to your car. Studebaker did offer power drum brakes and you can fit a stock power brake booster to your current system. It mounts remotely on the left fender apron under the hood.

If you want to change to a dual circuit master cylinder, Engineered Components, Inc. makes a remote booster system that looks amazingly like a Studebaker Hydrovac booster but operates with a dual circuit system (the Hydrovac can only use a single circuit system). Jim Turner can provide the dual cylinder and mounting brackets as well as front discs if you wanted to convert to discs.

ECI also make (as do other hot rod brake companies) an underfloor combo master cylinder/booster that would be easier to adapt to your Hawk than a firewall system....but that would be a distant 4th option IMHO.







http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

geojerry
05-07-2007, 04:19 PM
Thanks for this info. If I just do the install of the engine compartment Brake Booster unit, does this unit go in front of the battery on the firewall using the new the mounting brackets ? Where do the new hoses from this unit attach to ?

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o13/geojerry/DSC00018-1.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
05-07-2007, 04:41 PM
It mounts on the left fender apron (not the firewall)...in front of the battery...in back of the starter solenoid (although your solenoid looks like it has been remounted closer to the battery). The bracket for the booster has 4 through bolts into the apron. There is another bracket for the brake lines (in and out) that have 2 through bolts into the apron. Look for these holes...I imagine they were predrilled in all GT's.

You'd have to make a new line up from the MC to the brake line bracket, then a new line down from the brake line bracket with a splitter to the front and back lines. Then there are two flex brake hoses from the brake line bracket to the booster.

There is also a vacuum hose with a one way valve from the booster to the intake manifold.

Check out your shop manual and/or parts catalog for illustrations.

Here's the booster in my factory disc brake '63...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/222/488832485_6d2a31dacb.jpg

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

geojerry
05-07-2007, 10:11 PM
Great info Dick.
It appears the unit will block access to the spark plugs from the top. But, I can live with that. Will most likely go with JDP's rebuilt unit he has.

Thanks again,
Jerry

chocolate turkey
05-12-2007, 10:22 AM
Just completed a dual master cyl conversion and disc brake conversion on my 63 GT Hawk with standard, non-power brakes. It is stopping just fine without a booster. I have used the Turner bracket for the master cyl and re-plumbed the entire car. Still have the original style rear drum brakes. Most pleased with the results and so happy that I don't need power!

Brian

Brian K. Curtis

sbca96
05-12-2007, 03:08 PM
I ran my '60 Hawk without a booster for years. The front disc brakes
were off a 63 Hawk. The brakes required a decent effort, and it was
best to "touch" them a couple times to warm the pads before a major
stop (not the best setup for an emergency) though during a panic stop
it always worked fine (since you usually press HARDER;)).

Keep in mind that the original system is setup for ALL drivers, so its
a personal opinion on how "well" brakes work. Some might consider a
power brake system to be too "touchy" or "grabby". We also noticed
that the Hawk seems to have more leverage than the Lark swinging. My
Hawk experience prompted us to attempt to do my brothers 64 Lark the
same way (no booster). It was basically impossible to stop without a
booster. Its also possible a '60 Hawk M/C bore size is different than
a '64 Lark Daytona M/C bore size - thats critical in the equation.

Tom

JDP
05-12-2007, 06:03 PM
By the way, you'll lose a point for the plastic inline check valve, it should be built in the Hydrovac fitting.

JDP/Maryland


63 GT R2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert-63
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

Dick Steinkamp
05-12-2007, 07:32 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

By the way, you'll lose a point for the plastic inline check valve, it should be built in the Hydrovac fitting.


Thanks for the tip. I won't loose a point, but if I ever sell this car SOMEBODY may if they don't change it and have it judged :D. The brakes work so nicely on this car, I don't think I'll mess with it. This is the first Stude I've driven any distance with the factory power discs. They really are quite nice. Very "modern" feeling.

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
05-15-2007, 11:23 AM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

By the way, you'll lose a point for the plastic inline check valve, it should be built in the Hydrovac fitting.


Although not super important to me (being a "modified" sort of guy
[8D]), but I thought I'd pass this along to those that want their car all original.

In the parts manual, the booster for a NON disk brake equipped car DOES have the check valve screwed into the bottom of the booster. In a DISK brake car, however, the check valve is in the vacuum line BETWEEN the booster and the manifold...remote from the booster.

Check page 325 of the '59=64 chassis parts catalog. There is the non disk brake booster with the check valve (1112-120) screwed into the bottom of the booster. On page 330 is the disk brake booster. It has just a fitting (with an additional 90 degree fitting) screwed into the same port in the booster (this is identical to the set up in my '63 disk brake Hawk). On page 365, the hoses from the manifold to the booster are listed. There is only one hose for non disk brake cars since it can run directly from the manifold to the check valve that is screwed into the booster. On disk brake cars there are two hoses...one from the manifold to the check valve and the other from the check valve to the booster.

Also, we had a discussion a while back about 2 bleeder screws on the hydrovac vs one. My disc brake Hawk just has one. On the illustration of the non disc brake booster, it shows two bleeder screws. One on the top of the booster and the other on the hydraulic cylinder end plug cap. On the illustration of the disk brake booster, there is only one...on the top of the booster. The hydraulic cylinder end plug cap is different on the disc brake booster and there is no provision for a bleeder screw.

I'm sure disk brake and non disk brake boosters and (parts of boosters) may have been interchanged over the years. For originality, there are differences. There may even be differences in terms of performance of the units (Studebaker made them different for SOME good reason hopefully).



http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

JDP
05-15-2007, 11:41 AM
Thanks for correcting me, never saw that plastic check valve before, even on my disk brake cars.

JDP/Maryland


63 GT R2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert-63
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
58 Starlight
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

Dick Steinkamp
05-15-2007, 01:03 PM
Just one other point here...

The 59-64 parts book lists 4 types of hydrovacs...

Type A is all 59-60 model cars
Type B is all 61-62 cars except C/K's
Type C is all 62 cars except Hawks
Type D is all 63-64 cars without disk brakes
Type E is 63-64 disk brake cars...except Hawks
Type F is 63-64 disk brake Hawks

Just looking at the parts that make up a type D (non disk brake cars) and type F (disk brake Hawks) there are many, many (most) parts that are different...right down to the valve body, cylinder shell, piston, diaphragm, etc.

My guess is that there are important performance differences, at least between the disk brake boosters and the drum brake boosters...perhaps between the other models also.

If you get your booster rebuilt, it is probably good to get your original booster back or at least a booster of the same type letter.





http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

tim333
10-17-2015, 11:24 PM
Anybody know where to get an inline check valve for the Hawks with power disc brakes? As mentioned, that hydrovac does not have an internal check valve. Part number 1552378, booster type F, 63 Hawk hardtop.

sals54
10-19-2015, 01:34 AM
Anybody know where to get an inline check valve for the Hawks with power disc brakes? As mentioned, that hydrovac does not have an internal check valve. Part number 1552378, booster type F, 63 Hawk hardtop.

You can usually get those at any decent speed shop. I would check with Summit Racing. They have great prices and ship fast. I'll check and reports back.

sals54
10-19-2015, 01:44 AM
Summit Racing has a couple different check valves listed. You will need a 2 lb check for the discs up front and a 10 lb check for the rears. The calipers only need 2 lbs to keep the pads close to the rotors, while the rear drums need 10 lbs to keep the cups in the wheel cylinders expanded and the shoes pushed to the drums.
Summit does not list the ratings on the check valves, so you'll need to call. I would not spend the extra $50 on the Wilwoods. I've used the standard checks in my Coupe for decades and never had a problem.
And don't forget to remove the check valve in the end of the master cylinder before you install it, or your disc pads will drag mercilessly on the rotors and wear them out. Jus sayin.

tim333
10-19-2015, 07:18 AM
Two check valves???? The Hawk has ONE, in the 5/16 vacuum line from the hydrovac to the rear of the intake manifold.

bezhawk
10-19-2015, 09:57 AM
Sal was thinking the brake line residual pressure valve check valves. Not the vacuum check valve discussed.
Also make sure you have the correct brake pedal as the leverage and fulcrum points are different between power brakes, and standard brakes.

tim333
10-19-2015, 12:41 PM
My only question was where to get the check valve. My 63 Hawk R2 came with power disc brakes.

karterfred88
10-19-2015, 06:26 PM
SI has a check valve for hydrovacs, other than the disc brake Hawk, anyone know if it would work? we are referring to the vacuum check valve, right? I don't see why it would be different-or that much different, maybe it can be used. Otherwise I'm thinking they are NLA-so you would need to adapt a P/B booster valve to make it work.
http://www.parts123.com/parts123/yb.dll?parta~dyndetail~Z5Z5Z50001003a~Z5Z5Z5AATDT~P36.00~~~~S4H1188IB21081622380 3a~Z5Z5Z5~Z5Z5Z50001003a
They also show this for disk brake Hawks-maybe a part # change? http://www.parts123.com/parts123/yb.dll?parta~dyndetail~Z5Z5Z50001003a~Z5Z5Z5AAREW~P75.00~~~~S4H11810IZ1081622383 0c~Z5Z5Z5~Z5Z5Z50001003a