Fantasy 'man cave' thread- idea stage

[Bob Andrews]

Just for the heckuvit...

I'm thinking about downsizing my situation some. The plan would be to sell the newer house and keep the little one in Oswego (Lake Ontario!). I would then build a man cave with a small apartment on 16 acres I own behind my main business property.

I have been inspired by Jeff's shop, and Studedude's quonset, and a few other guys on the Truck Forum are building shops too. I'm not close to retirement, but it would eventually be good for that. Here's a rough plan, copied from my Truck Forum post:

Thus far I'm thinking a plain, nondescript building about 120' long by 50' wide by 18' high. On the front end would be a 14' overhead door leading into a 50' by 50' shop. Behind that would be a 40' by 50' garage/display area. This would house the collection. Overhead could be a sizable storage area for parts, etc. That would leave a 30' by 50' space in which to put living quarters. Height is the cheapest part to buy, so with 18' I could have a small apartment with a big gameroom upstairs, with a wall big enough to put my paper '64 Studebaker billboard up Enough room for a big TV, pool table, bar, bathroom, and maybe a small guest room. The entire building would have in-floor heat, with three separate zones (boiler type TBD). The biggest worry in our area would be snow load, so it would have the 60 lb. snow load roof with a steep enough pitch that accumulation would slide off by itself, to the sides away from the doors and walkways. Along one side would be a canopy, basically a continuation of the roof, where our cars, BBQ grille, and maybe a plow truck could park. One portion would be enclosed to house the HD air compressor, with a partition to a semi-open area for fuel cans and other flammables. I have a CAD program somewhere that I taught myself how to use when I was designing my house in '03. I'll have to see if it's still here and working when I start to get a bit of a picture in mind. The local mobile home sales lot allows folks to look through their inventory salesman-free. That's where I got a lot of ideas for the house. When the weather warms up I'll go and look at some of those for ideas and take my camera.

Of course, this is all just dream stage right now. Any and all details and dimensions are subject to change, deletion, or revision. I called General Steel and was quoted about $32K for the building, includes all the steel, sheet steel, roof, trusses, soffits, trim, and hardware. Haven't priced anything else. I would have to pay as I go (NO financing!) so first would be to sell the new house. We have a little house in Oswego (Lake Ontario) 7 miles away which Momma loves, so we'd stay there at least till the apt. is done. I already have the paid-for land off behind my main business property (16 acres).

So far, that's what I've dreamed up. The timeline is YEARS (at least a few). I'm looking to downsize my business and my work schedule, VERRY gradually, and Linda would love that. So, this is one avenue we're looking at. Might happen soon, later, or never. Maybe something totally different will change our course. Only thing that's sure is, as long as I'm alive any plan will include old cars, Studebakers especially

Any ideas, expertise, info, links, etc. would be appreciated. This is in what Disney calls "blue sky" stage, which means nothing is decided yet, so anything's possible What've you got?

[rockne10]

Don't look at me! I would be tickled to have a third enclosed space to park what I've got. Heat would be the icing on the cake!

[DEEPNHOCK]

Sounds neat!
Best part is you are developing a plan.
I started out with a 50'x125'.....lot.
2 bedroom bungalow that you could vacuum the entire house without unplugging the vacuum cleaner.
1 car garage that when a car was inside, you couldn't walk around it at all.
But it was a start
2nd house was bigger, but even older, and rural.
24'x55' machine shed, stable building...all falling down.
Spent all my time re-habbing the house and outbuildings.
Stude stuff was parked the entire decade.
Third house was sweet, and the barn was...ok.
24x36 with a second story for sheet metal, etc. Ladder only to get up there.
Cold in winter (even Florida winter), hot in summer.
15,000btu window a/c cooled it 15 degree's, but dehumidified it so it was tolerable.
(Built up the CE in that shop)
This house (4th) is 'almost' what we dreamed of.
Shop is close to what I want (50'x55')...
But the building was there, and all I did was wire it up, seal it up (sort of), and put floors and doors on it.
No real socializing area, even though all the extra chairs out there seem to congregate.
Now, I do have my 'office' (F.R.O.G. family room over garage), which is 12'x24' finished, with a/c.
That has a hideabed, love seat, and a recliner chair, as well as a desk.
It doubles as a guest room (for people the wife won't let in the house)
That is my hideaway, when not work/working or out in the shop.

I like the idea of the warm floor with pex (iirc?) tubing for Bams, but it does not get that cold in SE Georgia.
I'd rather spend my money on insulation and A/C...But up north? Warm floors first.

Pool table? Not my style, and it would attract flies.
Projection TV room with wet bar and a row of Barca-Loungers...yeah!

If you do put in a museum, workshop, play room, and living quarters...
Put in a fire sprinkler system.

A museum... The Bob Andrews Memorial Lark Museum.
"In this row, we have the unfinished Lark hulks Bob had dragged home from all corners of the country"
"And over in that corner, under the tarp, is the one Lark that Bob swore he'd finish before he..."

A man has to have a dream...and a plan.
You go Bob!
Jeff

[Bob Andrews]

What I'm planning would not be all that appealing to the vast majority. The main reason to go this way is for after I croak- If someone yanked out the apartment they would end up with a great multi-purpose warehouse/shop/company location. Should be easy for my survivors to liquidate. Or, maybe another car nut will find a reason to retire to lovely New York State

[comatus]

A couple of aphorisms for you, and I think they'll find some sympathy here:

1. By the time you've finished building your house, you've learned enough to begin building your house.
2. All those friends you were going to entertain in your house? By the time it's done, you don't know them anymore.

[Bob Andrews]

True enough. The one I'm in was my first. I've heard you have to build four to really know what you're doing; if I can pull this man cave off it WILL be my last

[DEEPNHOCK]

To me houses are like cars.
Why buy a new car and suffer the depreciation?
I only bought one new car in my life. It was OK...
But I have bought a lot of great used cars, at superb prices, and have gotten great service from them all.
Houses, to me, are sort of like that.
For what I/we want, building new would be prohibitively expensive.
(What with the chandeliers, and the fountain in the toilet)
Buying a used place, and fixing it up to what I/we want seems a better choice.
There will come a day when I won't want to, or won't be able to, fix up a place.
Then that mantra will change.
But this caveman swapping caves has done OK in the cave ownership department.
Your 'free and clear' goal is definitely a winner idea, Bob.....
Jeff

True enough. The one I'm in was my first. I've heard you have to build four to really know what you're doing; if I can pull this man cave off it WILL be my last

[sweetolbob]

Bob

I'll just add a couple of thoughts to your idea.

First off, it's great to have a plan and you have started early enough to make modifications. Your projected height of 18' (unless it is wall height) will not give you enough headroom for a decent second floor apartment/guest room. My pole barn is 19' to the peak of the gambrel/barn roof and it has about 7' ceilings with an 8' lower floor. That won't pass inspection for living quarters. Mine is fine because it houses my wood shop and heated area for winter use. I love the idea of heated floors and wish I had put that in mine when we built it. Even just the tubing so it could be hooked up at a later time.

Mine is much smaller 32 X 48 with two floors but even if it were that large I'd still add an out building to house my snow removal equipment and flammables. I added a separate 24' X 12' unit this fall. All the melted snow and fumes are now separate from the main shop.

Lastly, add a vent system that has a reasonably sized blower to move air from blast cabinets etc. and plumb it into any work area.

A data point, it took three that we built to have this one paid for but that was in a time when real estate was escalating at reasonable rate.

Good luck, sounds like a reasonable solution.

Bob

[Jim B PEI]

"I like the idea of the warm floor with pex (iirc?) tubing for Bams, but it does not get that cold in SE Georgia.
I'd rather spend my money on insulation and A/C...But up north? Warm floors first."

Jeff is again right on the money. My 'final house' (and yes, I wish I 'd finished building it before I started building it etc) is built on an insulated slab (upside down foundation) with that plastic tubing warm water heating in the floor, heated by a high efficiency mini oil furnace, but solar, propane, natural gas or whatever are all options. Smartest move I ever made. Heating a living/working area from the ground up (ie your feet) means the place is a LOT more comfortable than anything like forced air, for le$$ ca$h monthly, there are no drafty bits, and there are no real cold spots. Showers/tubs and vehicle storage areas dry out and mold, mildew, condensation generally isn't a problem at all. Even >pets< and winter boots etc dry out quickly after being outdoors in the snow, and the 'mud room' becomes a 'dried dirt room' that responds well to a quick vacuum rather than mopping out all the time.

I find that a floor temp of 72 F/22 C makes for a cozy house temp of 67-8/19-20. Yup, cozy. If your feet are warm, you are warm.

Plus, your boots are *warm* when you put them on. And the dogs don't smell (as much)

[Bob Andrews]

Jeff- I hear you on the cost of building new, but this is going to be a pretty generic building. As John Clary alluded to in the Wal-Mart thread, a generic building could be cleared and repurposed easily, and in a short time, for whatever use one wanted. That's what I'm going for, either for possible future changes for us or easy resale for the heirs. Bonus, the exterior will be rather nondescript, thus less an attraction to the unsavory element. And, easy to make secure. Add to that the in-floor heat (which few already have) and a nice piece of land I already own. I think I can build what I want for relatively cheap, with little to no depreciation. THAT will be the challenge

Bob- That height is in fact interior height. 18 feet of usable interior height. I had originally thought 16, but they say once you have your length and width, height is the cheapest dimension. Didn't say how cheap. Once I get closer to doing it I'll get the details and play with numbers and dimensions. The Gen. Steel rep says sometime they have pre-fab specials that can be bought cheaper. Claims he had a 120 long by 60 wide he could make a great deal on if I'd sign within the week. Not applicable, of course, since I'm nowhere near ready; so I don't know what "great deal" meant. But I suspect I can negotiate a much better price once I'm ready.

Good point about a separate storage building. I had that figured in the above plan on the side, under the canopy.

Jim- I am set on the PEX tubing in the floor, but am still researching the boiler heat source. I'm very interested in Geothermal, but that still doesn't seem viable. Lots of time to learn more though

[DEEPNHOCK]

Until you pay for heating all that air up there.....
I'm 16'+ in the center aisle, and that is a long way up there....
Jeff

[B]<snip>
That height is in fact interior height. 18 feet of usable interior height. I had originally thought 16, but they say once you have your length and width, height is the cheapest dimension.<snip>

[BubbaBear]

It’s a fantasy unless we win the lottery. Built of stone blend in well in the mountain valley in which it is built it be octagon shaped with eight bays and a center tool room. One bay is a big screen theater with every car movie ever made. Including every NASCAR race ever run. Next to it is the kitchen bay with Bar B Q facilities and a shower and locker room. Of the six remaining bays the first is a dirty bay. Meant for rusty greasy dis-assembly. Then as the bays progress around they are for dedicated purposes.. Ending with a state of the art paint booth. While each bay will be well stocked with tools the center tool room will keep stock duplicates for immediate replacement of broken tools or and any specialty tools needed. It will also include a paint mixing station, library, and computer research station. There will also be a spiral staircase to the rooftop swimming pool, recreation facility and observation deck. The observation deck is for the oval track surrounding the garage.. Did I mention the tunnel under the track?

[Bob Andrews]

Now THAT would be cool, John!<G>

[Bob Andrews]

Until you pay for heating all that air up there.....
I'm 16'+ in the center aisle, and that is a long way up there....
Jeff

That's a good point. I pictured a few huge ceiling fans to help push the heat back down. That seems to be the way it's done in the bigger buildings today. In-floor heat plus ceiling fans should work well, I would think. Anyone have experience or an opinion on this?

[studegary]

Bob A. - It is nice that you have a plan and it sounds good to me.
I don't know if your zoning laws are as strict as they are in this part of NYS. You would not be able to build a residence on a commercial/business property. You would not be able to build a steel residence. You would not be able to have a major workshop in the same building with your residence. Etc. Please check out your local zoning laws before proceeding with any plans.
Some business/residence locations exist,but they predate zoning laws.
If I was to build new in NYS, I would incorporate geothermal heating/cooling. I would also have everything on one floor. We all plan on getting older. Our current home is on four levels and I end up doing a lot of stair climbing. When we moved in, I did two stairs at a time, now I look at it as part of my exercise. By the time that we are 85-90, the stairs would be a barrier.