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BRUCESTUDE
01-11-2011, 09:44 PM
The paint job on my '64 Daytona continues, here's a shot of the inside left rear quarter panel. There was a little surface scaly rust along the edges, but not bad. I slopped some POR 15 on after wire wheeling.
http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp318/brucestude/misc1-1-11002.jpg

silverhawk
01-12-2011, 12:46 AM
I remember when the '62 of my dad's was like that; what a great day it was to reinstall them! Started to look like a car again :D

silverhawk
01-12-2011, 12:46 AM
BTW, what are you using to seal those surfaces? Looks like POR, but not at the same time....

woodysrods
01-12-2011, 01:34 AM
Can't stay quiet on this one! POR 15 is NOT the product that you should be using.
It seems most amature restorations seem to have one thing in common these days....POR 15 applied with a brush over non properly prepared surfaces.
I really don't want to upset anyone (But I am sure someone will be). But if you are going to go to the trouble of removing quarters, doors, fenders, & even bodies off the frame. Then don't waste your time with a wire wheel, a brush and POR 15. Unless you really don't care to keep the car and you are just trying to make it look better for your eBay pictures. DO IT RIGHT! It doesn't cost much more and if your time is worth anything, it probably costs LESS!
Good Luck
&
Good Roads
Brian

StudeRich
01-12-2011, 02:51 AM
Are you going to tell us what YOU would use? What would you use, chem etch Primer!

KJongenburger
01-12-2011, 05:26 AM
I can tell what I used on my French and English cars. These cars are made of the worst (1970's) stuff they dared to sell as steel. It already starts to rust in the brochure so I had to replace large parts of the body and weld these parts to the rest of the rusty bits.

The parts I did not replace I blasted at low pressure to prevent dis-forming the curves, then I painted the old and new parts with two layers of Sikkens (a Euro paint brand) two component primer. This I covered with two layers of the paint and sealed it of with Caprotech RX10, an underbody protection. Hereafter I sprayed the parts that remain in view in the proper colour.

It works fine. Never seen any rust after that.

My new 1950 commander is my first car that does not require extensive body work, only a lot of paint. A new experience for me.

8E45E
01-12-2011, 07:08 AM
Are you going to tell us what YOU would use? What would you use, chem etch Primer!

I admire Brian for taking a stand on that issue. I won't mask rust with POR-15, either. I sandblast to raw steel and then cover with etch primer such as DP-40 or DP-90 on a chassis.

Craig

woodysrods
01-12-2011, 11:56 AM
See I didn't have to say how it SHOULD be done! Craig has hit the nail on the head!
In our shop we blast everything, it is the best money you can spend. Then DP90 or other quaulity etch epoxy primer or a good rockguard on the blasted underbelly sheet metal parts with 2 to 3 coats of industrial epoxy applied over the rockguard. Makes it very durable and washable. Will last another 50 or more years easily!
Please remember that Epoxy paint has no UV protection and should ony be used on areas not exposed to direct sunlight or it will start to break down and chalk up in a couple of years.
Good Roads
Brian

BRUCESTUDE
01-12-2011, 12:25 PM
Some of us don't have nor can afford blasting equipment.

tbredehoft
01-12-2011, 02:59 PM
My CASO method was to use a 3 1/2" wire cup on a 90 deg. grinder, remove everything down to bare but once rusted metal. After a while my coveralls felt like cactus with the little wires, but it sure takes off the rust and crud. Then I'd wash it with lacquer thinner to remove oil residue. Then I'd apply the POR 15. I'm more satisfied with that than anything I could have paid for locally.

52-fan
01-12-2011, 03:00 PM
So now I am confused. Are you saying that the POR15 does not stop rust or bond as they claim?

studefan
01-12-2011, 03:04 PM
Bruce, I thought that was my 64 HT for a second. Mine looked this way about a year ago. Keep up the good progress and keep us posted. Jeff

silverhawk
01-12-2011, 04:25 PM
This could be a pretty interesting discussion! My 2 cents is this: I LOVE blasting and starting over; but on some things it's best NOT to do that. Such as a customers Mercedes that he doesn't want to have to pull all apart to fix a hole in the firewall. The POR has worked great for a year plus so far. Other items I have used and tested it on ONLY IF USED CORRECTLY; it works quite well :) I am also only 17 though, so I won't argue with people with more experiance ;)

DEEPNHOCK
01-12-2011, 04:58 PM
That is a good point.
Many of us cannot afford to outsource this type of repair, or preventative maintenance.
So that leaves a gap.
We all want to do a 400 point restoration.
But we have to do the best we can with what we have to work with.
Taking shortcuts that cut the service life of the product (Stude's in this instance) because we can't afford the tool or product is a poor excuse.
If things are that bad, then maybe a restoration should not be started.
Better to drive it and enjoy it...while it lasts.
Sort of like saying you never change the oil because a drain pan cost's too much.
Somewhere, the investment to do the job right must be made...Or the result will suffer.
No easy answer here..
The comments above are all good, but the one thing that really wasn't said (so far) was to READ THE INSTRUCTIONS.
POR15 is not cheap.
They are pretty stringent in their application instructions.
Sure, there are better methods and products than POR15.
But POR15 gives you a good result for the bang for the buck.
I will continue to use it, in the proper places, with the proper application methods.




Some of us don't have nor can afford blasting equipment.

JRoberts
01-12-2011, 06:38 PM
Thanks for those comments, Jeff. I use POR15 and do not understand what the probelm with it is. It does stop rust and from what I've seen prevents it as well. I know it can be deadly if sprayed incorrectly. I have always brushed it on and it comes out very smooth. Yes, you do have to following the directions.

52 Ragtop
01-12-2011, 08:17 PM
I've done it both ways, blast, etch prime, 2 part primer then paint over the primer, as primer is NOT waterproof! I've also de-greased, wire brushed the loose rust, and used Por-15 over the properly prepped metal. Both results (so far) are good. We have also used a product called "Al's Bedliner" I am "toying" with the idea of spraying the underside of one of my "projects" and the inside of it and see how that will hold up. IF it holds up as well as I think it will, That will be the way to go.
Imagine, a powder coated frame, and a bedliner sprayed on the underside of the body!

Jim

Jessie J.
01-12-2011, 09:24 PM
I have used POR for over 20 years with very good results on chassis and unexposed sheetmetal. I own a high quality heavy duty sandblasting unit and have experimented with the results of blasting and of not blasting in the preparation.
Using POR, blasting to a 'metal in white' condition seems to have no significant advantage as far as adhesion or durability. Any other advantage seems to be the purely psychological 'do it right' mental massage.

My most successful and durable results have consistently been produced on lightly rusted or lightly blasted surfaces. Remaining old paint, coatings, metal 'treatments' (Studebaker's latter 'aluminised' rust-proofing :)) or other surface contaminants (oil, tar, brake-fluid, etc) are the usual source of problems.
Aggressive blasting or power wire-brushing can essentially drive and peen these contaminants right into the metal surface, affecting the long term bond and durability of any finish materials.

My best results have been achieved with chemical stripping or grinding away of all surface coatings, blasting loose any flaking heavily rusted areas, and only lightly blasting the rest.
WHEN USING POR A light overall film of rust is preferable to any shiny smooth surface.
Weather is also an important factor. Problems can arise if POR is applied to metal that either 'sweats' or is exposed to freezing temperatures before the material has had sufficient time to cure.
One thing I did discover working with POR, is that if a surface turns out unsatisfactory, it is possible to use a torch or heat gun on it, and it will liquefy to a water like consistency which can be easily wiped away with rags, and the surface re-coated with POR without further preparation.
Some will question, Why use POR when better 'Professional' products are available? In my case, although I have all
the equipment, it is a matter of convenience weighed against long term results.
I can brush on a couple of coats of POR on a properly prepared surface in a matter of few spare minutes and be quite confident that surface will remain substantially the same for longer than I'll live.
As opposed to going through
suiting-up, mixing up 2K, straining, spraying, and then cleaning guns and equipment

Jessie J.
01-12-2011, 09:38 PM
Can anyone tell me why it has became so difficult for me to post here? after composing a couple of lines the post will jump backwards and not allow me to add to the last sentence. I spent ten minutes trying to connect the 'suiting-up' above with the 'through' and adding a period at the end, and finally gave up in frustration. I've never had this problem on any other site?

8E45E
01-12-2011, 10:12 PM
Some of us don't have nor can afford blasting equipment.

At least here, there is an excellent DIY sandblasting outfit with five outdoor workstations. (Consolidated Compressor). One is able to tow their project to the site and sandblast away. The cost is very reasonable. I havn't done any sandblasting lately, but a couple of years ago, they were charging $70 an hour including materials. I would budget three hours for a frame and crossmembers. I did my truck frame there:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5124/5350549539_1e2e9b39de_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5162/5350548091_3ffe144d9a_b.jpg

I sandblasted the floor of the cab in my garage at home. Again, a sandblasting kit is relatively inexpensive, along with the media. Try and contain the sand within the area you are sandblasting as the media gets EVERYWHERE, and have your Shop-Vac on hand for clean-up after. :)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5083/5350545237_f83ffeea6c_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5161/5351159944_9a987e2819_b.jpg

Craig