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52-fan
01-10-2011, 10:26 AM
This 51 four door might be a fun car or a pain. Seller calls the engine a 289 Outlaw and says it is now a 340. Too bad there are no pictures of the engine or the interior. He won't get very high bids with so little visual input.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1951-Studebaker-/320641371898?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item4aa7b70efa

TX Rebel
01-10-2011, 10:38 AM
pretty lame auction, for sure; and on the East coast, you sure would not bid before making a very close examination of the body!

StudeRich
01-10-2011, 03:22 PM
If that IS in fact a Studebaker Engine, it's one radical machine!
Naturally aspirated with 340 c.i. 11.75 to 1 Compression and over 400 HP?

jclary
01-10-2011, 03:35 PM
If that IS in fact a Studebaker Engine, it's one radical machine!
Naturally aspirated with 340 c.i. 11.75 to 1 Compression and over 400 HP?

Now Now Rich...are you daring to tend towards the skeptic side???

After all...he's from New Jersey!:rolleyes:

JRoberts
01-10-2011, 04:18 PM
I wonder if his "outlaw" Studebaker engine is a Packard engine. Just a thought.

DEEPNHOCK
01-10-2011, 05:12 PM
I sent him a short list of questions, so, hopefully, we should see more info soon.
I can't see how a Stude guy could build up that radiical an engine in this small world of ours without somebody knowing either him, or that engine...


I wonder if his "outlaw" Studebaker engine is a Packard engine. Just a thought.

jclary
01-10-2011, 05:17 PM
I sent him a short list of questions, so, hopefully, we should see more info soon.
I can't see how a Stude guy could build up that radiical an engine in this small world of ours without somebody knowing either him, or that engine...

Jeff, let us know what the response is. I looked at his eBay feedback and it looks like he is mainly into selling concert and ballgame tickets. I saw little that would indicate that he has much experience in the collector car world.

3x2stude
01-10-2011, 08:03 PM
I asked for motor photos and more impportant "motor build photos". I'll post 'em if I get 'em.

Jon Kammer

StudeRich
01-10-2011, 10:19 PM
Now Now Rich...are you daring to tend towards the skeptic side???

After all...he's from New Jersey!:rolleyes:

What does THAT mean John? Is being from NJ, something like being a Chicago gangster or politician? Lol! :rolleyes: ;) :D

Nelsen Motorsports
01-10-2011, 10:35 PM
Wouldn't a 57 Packard transmission be a Studebaker transmission?

StudeRich
01-10-2011, 10:45 PM
Wouldn't a 57 Packard transmission be a Studebaker transmission?

No, actually a '57 Packard Trans. or a Studebaker Trans. would be a PACKARD Trans! The T-85 H.D. Borg Warner was first used in the Detroit Packards!

Jim B PEI
01-10-2011, 11:46 PM
No, actually a '57 Packard Trans. or a Studebaker Trans. would be a PACKARD Trans! The T-85 H.D. Borg Warner was first used in the Detroit Packards!


Yes, and having a rare-ish T-85 overdrive for this beast is a sign he means business, if he isn't a complete "pete de broue" (My Apple hasn't told me how to do French accents yet so its pronounced pet-aye, not peat) How few T85 were there in the Detroit Packards? How few in the 56-57-58 Golden Hawks? Too bad there aren't more around--would be fun having an Avanti R1 or R2 (or a R1/R2 Lark or GT Hawk) with a 3 overdrive with maybe better range of gears for modern driving rather than the 4 speed--except that it would be hellish trying to find some way to shoehorn it into an Avanti. Have to be some sort of floorshift....

DEEPNHOCK
01-11-2011, 10:34 AM
(UPDATE 1/11/2011)

I just spoke with the seller, and here's what I jotted down from our conversation.

1) He traded a car and some cash for it about a year ago.
2) He is unsure of it's 'value', as he does not know Studebaker's.
3) His knowledge of the engine came verbally from 'the mechanic' that helped them load it on the roll off truck when it was brought to his place a year ago.
4) He said "I might have had smoke blown at me...I don't know"...
5) He does not know how to drive a '3 on the tree'.
6) He starts it every week, and pulls it outside, and then back inside the garage.
7) He said he probably won't get any info from his 'friend', as his 'friend' did not want to have to sell it in the first place.
8) He said he did not know the name of the shop that did the machine work.
9) He said that anyone can come over and inspect the car in Bridgewater, NJ (Somerset County)
10) He asked me what I thought the real 'value' was for a car like this.
(He winced a bit when I gave him a number, but I admit I was being a buyer at that part of the conversation.)
11) He is going to take a bunch of engine and interior pic's, and e-mail them to me. (as promised to others on Ebay)

(opinion) The guy wants to sell the car to get it out of his garage. He said he has no time to play with it.
He would probably take a low ball cash offer.
I am skeptical about a lot of the spoken numbers on the engine.
I am skeptical that an engine that is modified like that would even start easily every weekend, as stated.
It could be a real cool deal.....Maybe.
Someone should run over and check it out...with a spark plug wrench and a compression gauge:rolleyes:
Jeff:cool:

shifter4
01-11-2011, 10:42 AM
And take along a P&G engine displacement checker .

JDP
01-11-2011, 10:51 AM
Not that far a side trip from the casino in Atlantic City, let me know what you find out. It would not be the first car I bought on a side trip.:)

jclary
01-11-2011, 10:55 AM
If I were buying this car (and I am not), unless I could verify the condition of the engine, I would completely discount it as having any value. In other words, I would make my offer based on the condition of the rest of the car as if it was being offered without an engine.

Having been down this road before...I have seen total junk engines be made to run good enough to sell. If you buy it and the engine turns out to be OK...then you are ahead of the game.

JDP
01-11-2011, 11:06 AM
If I were buying this car (and I am not), unless I could verify the condition of the engine, I would completely discount it as having any value. In other words, I would make my offer based on the condition of the rest of the car as if it was being offered without an engine.

Having been down this road before...I have seen total junk engines be made to run good enough to sell. If you buy it and the engine turns out to be OK...then you are ahead of the game.


"IF" it's a stroker 340, it's a rare bird indeed. The reason I find it interesting is all the numbers and description add up. (341.74 cu.in) There are no red flags in the supposed work done. You could swap it a milder cam, lower the compression and add a blower and have quite the motor.

3x2stude
01-11-2011, 07:12 PM
There are some motor pictures on ebay now. The carb apears to be what the add said. This motor could be a find. Check it out.

JK

jclary
01-11-2011, 07:26 PM
With the added pictures, this listing is looking much better. I might have to reconsider my earlier comments. I hope this car finds a good home.

Warren Webb
01-11-2011, 07:28 PM
That 4" stroke would make it a torque monster alright but how could that be done with a Stude crank? Back in the early 60's I believe they would weld the crank & regrind it to stroke it to standard bearings but going from a 3.62 to 4" is a heck of a stretch.

52-fan
01-11-2011, 08:22 PM
That is certainly a big carb for a Studebaker. The pictures of the engine certainly indicate that someone went to a fair amount of trouble. I wonder if they were pleased with how it ran with those modifications.

StudeDave57
01-12-2011, 04:16 PM
This car was 'Eye Candy' on March 13th last year~

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?32402-SATURDAY-EYE-CANDY-3-13&highlight=candy

Unfortunately the pic is now gone. But neverfear~ I have a copy of it here, somewhere... :rolleyes:

DEEPNHOCK
01-12-2011, 05:03 PM
I am witholding my comments.

Mike Van Veghten
01-13-2011, 09:08 AM
Even IF it is that big...there'd be no power above about 4000rpm...! Might tow trailers well...

The heads available won't flow enough to feed that many cubic inches to have any fun with the car. I'd bet even R3 heads would choke up quickly with that much stroke.

Just bragging rights to the uninformed.
Still curious though as to the real size.

Mike

DEEPNHOCK
01-17-2011, 10:13 AM
$5106

From a zero bidder, too....
What's the pool bet going to be on how long before it goes back up on Ebay again?;):rolleyes:

52-fan
01-17-2011, 01:53 PM
If you liked it the first time you'll love it the second time. I would expect it to resurface on eBay in a few weeks also.

DEEPNHOCK
01-21-2011, 06:49 AM
Knew I smelled something, what with the way that auction ended.....
Only took a couple of days to pop back up.....

I would ask for/demand confirmation of all of the engine info on this before bidding.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Studebaker-Commander-1951-Studebaker-/320646042412?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item4aa7fe532c

Dan Timberlake
01-21-2011, 09:10 AM
Yeah - reduced "overlap" of rod and main journal, potentially severe distortion and runout of snout, timing gear journal, crank flange and seal areas, uncontrolled metallurgy in welded ( cast!) sections and in heat affected zone adjacent to welds - welded strokers are a crap shoot at best. A few psi more boost on a well prepped stock crank would be safer

Durango
01-21-2011, 08:49 PM
Just joined the forum and am already knocked out with the Stude info here. When I saw "289 Outlaw" up to 340 in the Ebay listing, I thought it must be a Ford--imagine my surprise when I searched and came on this thread! My father and uncles had a Stude dealership in western MA until the Depression did them in and I've owned a few Studes myself, but none currently. Trying to remedy that, though.

3x2stude
01-21-2011, 09:12 PM
I asked the owner to fire it up, video with sound and put it on Utube but he did not have the technology. You can buy a hand held video device for $150.00. Seems like a cheap investment if it sells the car for what it could be worth? Can't one of you long time members guilt trip some member that is close by into doing a "recon mission" for the sake of all our peace of mind? Any volunteers?

JK

41 Frank
01-21-2011, 10:04 PM
I for one would like to welcome you to the Forum, enjoy, get a Studebaker and join SDC, or better yet join SDC and then get a Studebaker!

Just joined the forum and am already knocked out with the Stude info here. When I saw "289 Outlaw" up to 340 in the Ebay listing, I thought it must be a Ford--imagine my surprise when I searched and came on this thread! My father and uncles had a Stude dealership in western MA until the Depression did them in and I've owned a few Studes myself, but none currently. Trying to remedy that, though.

Corvanti
01-22-2011, 09:04 AM
welcome durango!
what part of NC are you from?
after joining SDC, there are state and local clubs also.
i'm sure someone will post more info for you about them shortly...

Durango
01-25-2011, 06:50 PM
welcome durango!
what part of NC are you from?
after joining SDC, there are state and local clubs also.
i'm sure someone will post more info for you about them shortly...
Hi Corvanti,
I'm in Fayetteville--just a couple of hours away from you. Should I assume Corvette power in your Avanti?

Corvanti
01-25-2011, 07:14 PM
Hi Corvanti,
I'm in Fayetteville--just a couple of hours away from you. Should I assume Corvette power in your Avanti?

yeah, the entire drive train is corvette. bought it that way. sold it the week before christmas...
check some of the threads, you'll see a mr. roberts from fayetteville. you can get local club info from him.
i'm fairly new to the forum (lurked a long time) and also joined the sdc and ncsdc, etc. i plan to be in fort fisher, nc on april 1 & 2 to meet everyone - hopefully with my new (to me) stude!!!

JRoberts
01-25-2011, 07:28 PM
Hi Corvanti,
I'm in Fayetteville--just a couple of hours away from you. Should I assume Corvette power in your Avanti?

I sent you an email. I too am in Fayetteville.