Transmission install malfunction. need ideas!

[Ron Dame]

[whacker]

Did you re-align the bell housing to the block? Engine spins, transmission spins, all that's left is the bellhousing or (maybe) bad throwout bearing, or binding clutch.

[jclary]

Now the 185 cranks do not have a hole for a pilot bushing, so when the crank was machined, I had them bore a hole and fit the pilot bushing.

Ron

Lets hope that the machine shop properly centered the crank before boring. Also we should hope that the newly bored hole was straight in line with the pilot shaft. If not, the resulting bind could cause what you are describing even if the bellhousing is properly aligned.

However, I choose to be optimistic that it is as simple as the bellhousing or some other simple something you are missing.

[Ron Dame]

Did you re-align the bell housing to the block? Engine spins, transmission spins, all that's left is the bellhousing or (maybe) bad throwout bearing, or binding clutch.

Yeah, the bell housing was realigned, and to a very lucky 0.000" horizontal and 0.001" vertical.

I hope I need only go as far as the clutch, and not find the pilot bushing all mangled and stuck in the crank. That's what I am really afraid of, and how to get a mangled pilot out....

[Ron Dame]

Lets hope that the machine shop properly centered the crank before boring. Also we should hope that the newly bored hole was straight in line with the pilot shaft. If not, the resulting bind could cause what you are describing even if the bellhousing is properly aligned.

However, I choose to be optimistic that it is as simple as the bellhousing or some other simple something you are missing.

I feel good about the shop that machined the crank. Since I am so durned slow in anything, I can't really say for certain that I ever verified the ID of the pilot...and that I managed to mangle the pilot in the end of the crank....

[gordr]

Even if the pilot bushing had a problem, that should not preclude the engine and transmission turning freely with the transmission in neutral.

I'd be looking for interference between the ring gear and bellhousing. Or maybe the throwout bearing is seized?

[Ron Dame]

Even if the pilot bushing had a problem, that should not preclude the engine and transmission turning freely with the transmission in neutral.

I'd be looking for interference between the ring gear and bellhousing. Or maybe the throwout bearing is seized?

No funny noises like ring gear interfernce, and it's a new and tested by had through out.

I'll just pull the tranny (it'll be Sunday or later) and see WTF is going one..

[BobPalma]

How about if the new pilot bushing hole isn't deep enough, Ron? I.e., when you tightened the transmission to the bellhousing, the front end of the input shaft was crammed so hard into the bottom of the new pilot bushing hole that it was an interference fit and, as a result, the two could not turn independently of one-another and a binding condition was set up?

An odd possibility, I'll admit...but the whole thing sounds odd, from what you said! <GGG> BP

[laughinlark]

Bobs post sounds reasonable. Did the trans slip in all the way or just a little bit shy and drawn in with the bolts? I would loosen up the four trans mounting bolts. See if the trans backs out on it own. Then try to turn the engine.

Gordon

[sbca96]

I was going to post pretty much what Bob said. Get the trans out, measure the depth
of the pilot hole in the crank, to the bellhousing surface. Then measure the distance
from the trans flange to the tip of the input shaft. Compare.

If that's the problem, you could have some shim stock cut to fit the bellhousing face to
use as a spacer, as long as its not that thick it wont effect anything negatively.

Tom

[Ron Dame]

How about if the new pilot bushing hole isn't deep enough, Ron? I.e., when you tightened the transmission to the bellhousing, the front end of the input shaft was crammed so hard into the bottom of the new pilot bushing hole that it was an interference fit and, as a result, the two could not turn independently of one-another and a binding condition was set up?

An odd possibility, I'll admit...but the whole thing sounds odd, from what you said! <GGG> BP

You know when it takes entirely too long to build an engine, parts get lost ( I found or replaced them all, then of course found the parts I replaced) and you forget for certain what you did or did not do.

My fear is that I never confirmed that the pilot bushing was the right size, and now the trans pushed the bushing in and crushed it. If so, that'll be a bear to remove I bet. You are right, the last 1/2" of install was tough, but I did push it in by hand up to that point. I should not have been in a rush, except I want to finish this sometime this year, but I pulled the trans tight with the bolts. Arrgh. If not, maybe they did not bore teh hole in the crank deep enough.

And I won't get a chance to pull the trans until Monday afternoon.

Waiting and wondering, but still thankful for lots of things including owning a Studebaker and having Studebaker friends,
Ron

Happy Thanksgiving all!

[BobPalma]

My fear is that I never confirmed that the pilot bushing was the right size, and now the trans pushed the bushing in and crushed it. If so, that'll be a bear to remove I bet. You are right, the last 1/2" of install was tough, but I did push it in by hand up to that point. I should not have been in a rush, except I want to finish this sometime this year, but I pulled the trans tight with the bolts. Arrgh. If not, maybe they did not bore the hole in the crank deep enough.

Waiting and wondering, but still thankful for lots of things including owning a Studebaker and having Studebaker friends,
Ron

Happy Thanksgiving all!

Back at you on the Thanksgiving Day greetings, Ron.

I can't imagine the pilot bushing being all that difficult to remove if it is smashed into the back of the crankshaft. Bushing material is soft and there are plenty of internal pullers to assist.

Further, you know it is ruined anyway (if that proves to be the problem) and bushings are cheap and plentiful, so you don't have to worry about destroying it on the way out. You could even drill it out with a bit almost as large as the bushing, and then pry out any remaining shell after most of the material was removed by the drill bit.

Enjoy your turkey and pumpkin (or pecan) pie and don't stress over this. It doesn't sound like as big a deal as it is a disappointment. BP

[christophe]

Hi folks,

Here's a little trick to remove the pilot bushing. Fill entirely the space at the rear of the crankshaft to the top of the bushing with grease. Then take a rod which diameter is corresponding to the inside diameter of the bushing and insert it. With a few hammer knocks, the bushing must get out, by the force applied to its front end by the grease. You can also take a tap of the immediate superior size and scew it into the bushing. When it'll reach the bottom of the crankshaft, it'll act as an extractor and get the bushing out.
Here are my two cents thoughts:
If the lateral end play of the crankshaft has desappeared, the gearbox is pushing on it. If there is no particular noise when trying to rotate the engine, thus signalling that something is wrong with the clutch, this seems to be the only possible explanation. Unscrewing lightly the fixation bolts will give the solution if the engine then turns free.
Best of luck.

[starliner62]

Enjoy your turkey and pumpkin (or pecan) pie and don't stress over this. It doesn't sound like as big a deal as it is a disappointment. BP

That would be pee-can pie in this part of the world.<G>

[Ron Dame]

That would be pee-can pie in this part of the world.<G>

In my case that's be a puhKHAN pie....I had a friend in Georgia whose father was a puhKAHN farmer, and insisted that PEEcans were fer the outhouse and Yankees (He said that, not me, 1/2 Yankee that I am!)