Rack & Pinion Testimonials

[woodysrods]

I would like to hear from anyone running a rack & pinion steering system on thier C/K.
Please be specific. What Rack you used. What front suspension you used. What kind of driving you do. How many miles you have driven with you new rack.
Power vs Manual.
Likes and dislikes!
Thanks for participating in this thread.
Brian

[PackardV8]

What Rack you used. - 1994 Audi 200 RHD
What front suspension you used. - OEM Studebaker with shortened steering arms and a heavy duty sway bar
What kind of driving you do - Corner hard enough to scrape the chrome off the door handles.
How many miles you have driven with you new rack - Still under construction
Power vs Manual - Power
Likes and dislikes! - Kids, don't try this at home.

jack vines

[junior]

Brian, good luck with this one....for four years I have been reading threads, surfing the net, and following opinions on this subject. I went to the Spokane international meet with the intention of purchasing a Slick Street Stuff front suspension/r&p steering. The more I read, the more I couldn’t get a clear answer. One quote in posts about the Slick Street conversion was something to the effect of "there is an eerie silence about effectiveness of this conversion”. Seems to me that the center steer option does seem to make more sense as far as geometry is concerned, but once again the jury still seems to be out on this one…some say it works great, some say there is still bump steer. To me, there is nothing better then a modern vehicle with r&p steering. The off center response is right-now, and there is never any wander due to the steering gear…even with my trucks. My previous Chevy C 1500 had nowhere near the on center stability that my Colorado has with the r&p. The tracking down the highway with r&p is simply unparalleled. Perhaps some that have done the conversion on a Stude are hyper-sensitive to bump-steer and so say the conversion is not great, while others are not so sensitive and thus feel the conversion is a success. It’s no different then me NOT expecting awesome handling from my truck, but then when it comes to my car (Mazda 6 with sport package) I EXPECT awesome handling, on center tracking, off center steering feel, low NVH, and great brakes…nothing less will do. I have chosen to wait for a definitive answer regarding any Stude conversion, and in the meantime will concentrate on making sure all suspension, steering and frame issues are brought back to factory-new specifications. Once I have a factory-fresh frontend, I may let the issue rest…who knows, by that time maybe you will have a r&p system that works all sorted out. I e-mailed Jim Turner with the proposal of him figuring out an answer and his response was that he often considered doing such a project, but his lawyer was yapping about legal/liability mumbo-jumbo. I figured someone like Jim, with his attention to detail and quality, could design an awesome kit. Bottom line….time will tell. Hopefully one day Studedom will have an answer. Cheers, Junior.

[sweetolbob]

What Rack you used. - 1994 Audi 200 RHD

jack vines

Whoa!! Let's slow down a minute, Jack

I can't let this one lie without asking for more info. Are you building one for Europe or flipping the rack to allow rear steer?? Or did I just misunderstand RHD as right hand drive?

As with most of your posts, I'm reading this for my education purposes.

Bob

[woodysrods]

What Rack you used. - 1994 Audi 200 RHD
What front suspension you used. - OEM Studebaker with shortened steering arms and a heavy duty sway bar
What kind of driving you do - Corner hard enough to scrape the chrome off the door handles.
How many miles you have driven with you new rack - Still under construction
Power vs Manual - Power
Likes and dislikes! - Kids, don't try this at home.

jack vines

Thanks for responding Jack. Yes the RHD thing has thrown me a little, but you have helped my with another desion I was struggling with. I am definitely going to shave my door handle now to give myself a little extra cornering ability with drag.
Thanks
Brian

[paintim613]

My restoration guy installed a Dodge Omni rack and pinion steering system. He said he chose it because the geometry was pretty tricky due to the original Stude suspension which we kept. Haven't driven it yet so I cannot be of much help. Other SDC members can give you the best advice.

[PackardV8]

Hi, Bob,

1994 Audi 200 RHD . . . Are you . . . flipping the rack to allow rear steer??

Yes. That Audi uses a single end rack. However, because it is a front steer, the US racks turn the wrong way. While I was in Australia, I went to a wrecking yard and picked up a RHD rack. It is mounted off the left frame rail and connected to the OEM tie rods. To get enough travel, I had to shorten the steering arms.

The Hawk project has been on hold for the last couple of years while I'm finishing my '55 E12 with Packard V8.

jack vines

[woodysrods]

Don if you are watching, Please chime in here as I think you have the best handle on this subject that I have heard so far. Would love to share the info you have sent me with others that are patiently waiting for direction.
Good Roads
Brian
PS You too Jerry! Want your thoughts.

[oldguy]

Suck them into the catfight with a little flattery, eh Brian. I'm no expert, but I'll be happy to share what I know with anyone.
For the purposes of this post, I have some comments.
Anyone who has done this, and driven the car, please speak up. There are a myriad of things that could go wrong with this conversion, so even if you're not happy with yours (especially if you're not happy), jump in. Maybe we can help.
"Things that go bump in the night" = 1. Racks are more sensitive than recirculating ball, ergo any issues with kingpins, bearings, trunions, bushings, could be more noticeable after a rack swap. 2. Most cars now have a rag joint or some rubber encased steering link. most R&P custom installs don't, this could cause unwanted feedback. 3. Even a tiny error in geometry causes bump steer (long winded explanation of cause and effect here) suffice it to say we can direct you on how to fix this. 4. Excess pump pressure, or flow rate, can have an adverse effect on handling. 5. Altered Scrub Radius from aftermarket (or Ford/Mopar rims) could be a factor. As is #6. bias ply or radial tires.
So judging the success of an R&P install has to take all these into consideration, unless of course it came out perfect.
Even judging the success of the Slick Street Stuff would be dependent on all the above.
All my swaps have been complete suspension changes to ball joints and positive caster. Very interested in learning how it works with negative caster, king pins, stude scrub radius. etc.
don

[sweetolbob]

Posted by PackardV8
Yes. That Audi uses a single end rack

Dang it Jack, you are one creative guy. Please keep us informed as this build develops.

Thanks, Bob

[woodysrods]

Thanks Don
I am sure we are going to get some Forum members jumping in now!
I know they will be thankful for the answers you can give, as you are as close to an "Expert" as I have found. And the fact that you are actively using your knowledge on a C/K makes it even better!
Keep it coming.
Brian
PS
I hope it is okay if I forward your e-mail to me, to a couple other Forum members who I know have been waiting for this type of info.

[jts359]

I used a 70's era Jaguar XJ6 power rack with the Avanti quick steer arms in a R2 powered 55 Coupe The rest of the suspension was stock , There a hint of bump steer but I felt the end result was a alot better than the stock center link steering , I had several thousand miles on the car including some mid 13 sec runs at the drag strip, Several weeks ago I sold the car to my brother and he loves it ,

[woodysrods]

Do you have pics of the installation? As now we are talking. Stock Stude V8, Stock Suspension, Avanti arms (easily accessable), modern rack. Trick is in the mounting location. Right Don? Is the Jag a centre steer rack?
Brian

[Bob Andrews]

I used a 70's era Jaguar XJ6 power rack with the Avanti quick steer arms in a R2 powered 55 Coupe The rest of the suspension was stock , There a hint of bump steer but I felt the end result was a alot better than the stock center link steering , I had several thousand miles on the car including some mid 13 sec runs at the drag strip, Several weeks ago I sold the car to my brother and he loves it ,

OHH, would I love to take that for a drive! I too am very interested in R&P, for a Super Lark clone.

[oldguy]

I believe the jag is an end take off unit. Theoretically, all end take offs have to have bump steer,(on older suspensions with long lower control arms) because the tie rods move through a steeper arc than the control arms. At the extremes of suspension travel (like going over bumps) the tie rod ends (attached to the steering arms) move closer to the middle pulling in the steering arms, causing a Toe-Out response. (on a rear steer). Studes have lower control arms about 18 inches long (pivot to pivot), so only center take off racks have tie rods that long or longer.
It's virtually impossible to get it perfect (center tie rod would have to fall on a line with the inner lower control arm bushings) Outer tie rod would have to fall on a line thru the steering arm. Since the proper steering arm line should have the ackerman effect (the line intersects the rear diff) Those two lines aren't parallel, can't be done. Wasn't done on the stude - so the compromise is to make the tie rod longer than the lower control arm. This gives it a flatter arc than the control arm and results in a Toe-in position thru bumps. The additional toe in actually stabilizes it a bit thru bumps. There is bump steer, but it's beneficial. I'd love to see the Jag rack install. If the center section is real short, and tie rods fairly long, it could get real close. radial tires have soft flexible sidewalls and want to resist minute lateral movement.
If the geometry is close enough, one could cancel the other and be very driveable. My wife has driven only Jags for over 20 years. I love the way they feel. The jag rack may have a better feel than the GM racks. Can we get more details?
The Audi single end rack is also fascinating. Got any pics of it?
A single end rack that could be bolted to the crossmember with prefabbed brackets would eliminate the need for welding brackets to the frame. Height would be set by the prefabbed brackets, eliminating that issue for the novice. Could be near foolproof.