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satdoc2
11-03-2010, 08:19 PM
How many 1963 Full Package R2 Powershift Hawks were produced?
Allen

bezhawk
11-03-2010, 08:21 PM
Um...... all of them?











Yeah, I know. My kids call me a smart a$$ too.

studegary
11-03-2010, 08:41 PM
There were 276 R2 1963 Hawks built. I do not have the exact breakdown that you are looking for.

JDP
11-03-2010, 08:47 PM
How many 1963 Full Package R2 Powershift Hawks were produced?
Allen

42 1963 R2 package Hawks, best quess, about half were Powershift.

BobPalma
11-04-2010, 10:24 AM
OK, here's the actual production totals for 1963 Full Package, R2 Super Hawks:

Four-Speeds: 16. Of the sixteen 4-speeds, here are the colors:

Ermine White: 2
Regal Red: 2
Champagne Gold: 2
Super Red: 9
Rose Mist: 1

Powershift: 26. Of the 26 Powershift cars, here are the colors:

Ermine White: 2
Regal Red: 1
Champagne Gold: 1
Super Red: 21
Velvet Black: 1

starliner62
11-04-2010, 11:16 AM
I guess everyone liked red.

StudeRich
11-04-2010, 11:23 AM
Obviously, the trick with these cars is VERIFYING by Serial Number, IF the Hawk truly IS a genuine "Super "Hawk" or just one of many Avanti Powered or Avanti Supercharged Hawks some of which have; ALL, SOME OF, or NONE of the "Package peculiar Components".

PackardV8
11-04-2010, 12:01 PM
I guess everyone liked red. Super Red was a new color developed specifically for the package cars, There's a good chance S-P just painted the first 30 produced Super Red and the others colors were to order.

A check of production dates may disprove this hypothesis, but it would be consistent with the way manufacturers introduced a new model or option back in the day.

jack vines

Bill Pressler
11-04-2010, 12:08 PM
Super Red was a new color developed specifically for the package cars, There's a good chance S-P just painted the first 30 produced Super Red and the others colors were to order.

jack vines

Super Red isn't a real deep, lustrous color, but I do like the 'exclusivity' of it--it is rarely seen.

I remember Nelson Bove's terrific Super Red '63 GT with R2 and Powershift at the South Bend 2007 International meet. I'm thinking it had been a museum car. Gorgeous.

8E45E
11-04-2010, 02:33 PM
There were 276 R2 1963 Hawks built. I do not have the exact breakdown that you are looking for.

Does that figure include the 20 or so that were produced in Hamilton? Their engine # has an 'JTSC' prefix.

Craig

BobPalma
11-04-2010, 03:09 PM
Does that figure include the 20 or so that were produced in Hamilton? Their engine # has an 'SJTC' prefix.

Craig

No, Craig; it does not. BP

nels
11-04-2010, 03:17 PM
Bob
I imagine the white cars, two four speeds and two power shifts, were the introductory cars??
Bill,
Yes my '63 R2 super red GT did come out of a museum in Denver. It is an unbelievable survivor. All the paint on the car is original, original carpets, seats, chrome, radiator hoses and clamps etc. The trouble with all that is I'm now afraid to drive it. It really belongs in a museum but the one that had it did not seem to appreciate it as they never had it on displayed but thanks to them it was stored properly in a temp controlled enviroment for 30 plus years. For many years prior to that it was stored in a Denver garage and only driven several miles per year to get inspected and replated. That had to be one of the best hipo Stude finds of the century.

BobPalma
11-04-2010, 03:22 PM
I remember Nelson Bove's terrific Super Red '63 GT with R2 and Powershift at the South Bend 2007 International meet. I'm thinking it had been a museum car. Gorgeous.

Yes, Bill; the car had spent most of its life in a museum in Colorado. Not on display, though, but gathering dust in a dark, nondescript back room(!) as a donation from the second owner (IIRC) until the museum got tired of it and told the donor's adult son to come get it! (The donor had long since passed away.)

Nelson Bove mounted his white horse and rode out to save it from a possibly terrible fate because it was quite dead, but still original, at that time. The donor's son wanted little to do with it as he had no interest in cars. He did have an interest in money, though, so Nelson didn't exactly steal it <GGG>

I don't think Nelson would mind my sharing what I consider to be one of the more unique "things" about that car.

To wit: The second owner bought it in 1966 or 1967 as a used car...now remember, this is a legitimate, full-package R2 Super Hawk in Super Red....and I believe it had miles in the teens when that second owner bought it.

Anyway, as a used car, it had the keys hanging on a regular, used-car dealer stock tag. That 1966/1967 dealer stock tag still exists with one set of keys on it. On the back of the tag is written: 1963 Stude. $1,895.

Ah, pleasant dreams, eh? BP

BobPalma
11-04-2010, 03:30 PM
Bob
I imagine the white cars, two four speeds and two power shifts, were the introductory cars??


That's close, Nels: One of the 2 Ermine White 4-speeds and one of the 2 Ermine White Powershift R2 package Hawks were built right when the package cars were introduced. The other two were mixed in later in production with little apparent notariety as to sequence. BP

Bill Pressler
11-04-2010, 05:04 PM
Anyway, as a used car, it had the keys hanging on a regular, used-car dealer stock tag. That 1966/1967 dealer stock tag still exists with one set of keys on it. On the back of the tag is written: 1963 Stude. $1,895.

Oh, man, what a story!

I've had two SDC'ers approach me in the past 20 or so years and tell me that en route to Pymatuning State Park near where I grew up, they saw a black '64 R2 Cruiser on the local Chevy dealer's used lot, and it looked pretty good. That was the Service Manager of Filer's car, which I've heard about but never saw. In '70 I was riding my bike a lot to the Chevy dealer but I don't remember that car. Bummer!

Super Red reminds me to bring this old story out again...just to 'bump' it. Hecker Motor Co. of Hollidaysburg, PA sold a new Super Red '63 Lark Custom 2-door sedan, complete R2 Super package, Powershift, with white Skytop and solid black vinyl bucket seats. Serial no. 63V-31238. I wrote the fellow who was listed as the owner per info in the SNM and received a shaky handwritten response that said, "Bob Hecker was a friend of mine but I don't remember owning that car". I'd sure love to find that one...but in SW PA, I'm afraid I know what happened to it.

irish
11-04-2010, 09:00 PM
OK, here's the actual production totals for 1963 Full Package, R2 Super Hawks:

Four-Speeds: 16. Of the sixteen 4-speeds, here are the colors:

Ermine White: 2
Regal Red: 2
Champagne Gold: 2
Super Red: 9
Rose Mist: 1

Powershift: 26. Of the 26 Powershift cars, here are the colors:

Ermine White: 2
Regal Red: 1
Champagne Gold: 1
Super Red: 21
Velvet Black: 1

My 1963 R2 hawk was a 4-speed painted in Ermine White, the car wasn't a Full-package car but it had almost all of the 'goodies' that were on the package cars. Bob would you happen to know how many non-package R2 hawks had a 4-speed?

Joe

Felix Benet
11-04-2010, 09:02 PM
Not to hi-jack the thread.......but how many Studebaker Avantis were factory built with 4speed trans?

StudeRich
11-04-2010, 10:56 PM
As far as I know the only way to find out is to read every one of the '63 & '64 Production Orders at the Studebaker National Museum in South Bend and count them.

There is little reason to know that number, since about 40% were probably built with 4 speed. Now a more interesting number would be how many R1's with the Standard equipment T-86 3 Speed Manual Transmission, certainly NOT desirable, but very rare!

Bellingham Studenut
11-05-2010, 12:33 AM
That's close, Nels: One of the 2 Ermine White 4-speeds and one of the 2 Ermine White Powershift R2 package Hawks were built right when the package cars were introduced. The other two were mixed in later in production with little apparent notariety as to sequence. BP

StudeRich saw the 1st (white) powershift prototype one just last month.
It's the Super Hawk featured in the June 1963 Motor Trend Magazine. There was also a red one shown on the cover of the magazine, but hard to tell what engine. Wish it still had the original wheels shown in that article!

James

BobPalma
11-05-2010, 07:24 AM
My 1963 R2 hawk was a 4-speed painted in Ermine White, the car wasn't a Full-package car but it had almost all of the 'goodies' that were on the package cars. Bob would you happen to know how many non-package R2 hawks had a 4-speed?

Joe

Joe: 'Hope you don't mind my begging off on that one for now; it would take the better part of an hour to go through all approx 1,390 numbers for that computation...and I assume you guys want to read a Co-Operator in the January 2011 Turning Wheels, which is what I need to be attending to right now! :) (It was much easier/faster to do the full package research because those serial numbers are all clustered in a couple-month time frame of production figures toward the end of the model year, Joe). BP

8E45E
11-05-2010, 07:34 AM
StudeRich saw the 1st (white) powershift prototype one just last month.


Is it the same one I saw?

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4029/5147951311_1da507ce31_b.jpg

Craig

irish
11-05-2010, 08:10 AM
That's fine Bob, I didn't expect you to do all that research just for my curiosity! I thought I would ask just in case you had already done the research on the non-package R2 hawks.

Joe

satdoc2
11-05-2010, 10:12 AM
For a while I was at a stand still on working on my 63 Full Package Hawk SR. I had several verterbrae in my back collapse due to the Multiple Myeloma Cancer I have. i will be getting out of the Hospital today after having 4 raised back up with a balloon and the having cement like super glue inserted. Should be back to finishing the axles and suspenion soon. I know my Great Dane and my 8 month Pyerdane have missid watching me The Doctor told me to just let pain be my guide to the work I do.
Allen

jclary
11-05-2010, 10:23 AM
For a while I was at a stand still on working on my 63 Full Package Hawk SR. I had several verterbrae in my back collapse due to the Multiple Myeloma Cancer I have. i will be getting out of the Hospital today after having 4 raised back up with a balloon and the having cement like super glue inserted. Should be back to finishing the axles and suspenion soon. I know my Great Dane and my 8 month Pyerdane have missid watching me The Doctor told me to just let pain be my guide to the work I do.
Allen

All the best to you Allen.
I know you had rather not be in this situation, but your malady serves to remind many of us of how blessed we are in so many ways. It also serves a cautionary purpose to keep us from being too cocky. You never know what's around the next corner.

Take care, be carefull and don't over exert yourself.
John

Bellingham Studenut
11-05-2010, 11:21 PM
Is it the same one I saw?

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4029/5147951311_1da507ce31_b.jpg

Craig

Craig,

That is the same one featured in the Motor Trend magazine article, but had some unusual wheels on it back then.
The magazine had some great photo's of the car in action!
The production order for it was 2 pages long and was sent to engeneering before Los Angeles.

James

Bellingham Studenut
11-06-2010, 12:01 AM
My 1963 R2 hawk was a 4-speed painted in Ermine White, the car wasn't a Full-package car but it had almost all of the 'goodies' that were on the package cars. Bob would you happen to know how many non-package R2 hawks had a 4-speed?

Joe

Joe, There were 153 R2 Hawks produced with 4spd and 37 of those were Ermine White.

Allen, I'm sure you will be glad to get back working on those axles soon. They made 21 Super Red Super Hawk's with Power Shift and it's an awsome car you have. Take care.

James

maxpower1954
11-06-2010, 01:36 AM
That's good to know! I've owned an Ermine White '63 R-2 four-speed non-package GT (63V-33073) since 1988. Worth every bit of the 4,500 I paid for it! Is that number ALL R-2 GTs, package and non? Mine has all the extras like the 160 mph speedo and 6,000 redline tach but no rear sway bar and tractions rods. Don't miss them, car's a blast to drive...

Russ Farris

(S)
11-06-2010, 03:36 PM
My special ordered 63 GT was an early one. It had captive air tires (including the spare) , Hill holder, 3.73 TT and disk brakes. It is not yet restored, but it will be someday........

nels
11-06-2010, 05:57 PM
James, that is a good looking car for sure. Appears to be in great survivor condition. I remember seeing a package, I think, 63 R2 out in southern Calif back in the early 70's. I can't remember the owner's name but he was racing a 60 Lark with an R3 at that time. I am wondering if your car is the one I saw back then? I think his name was Bergner?


Craig,

That is the same one featured in the Motor Trend magazine article, but had some unusual wheels on it back then.
The magazine had some great photo's of the car in action!
The production order for it was 2 pages long and was sent to engeneering before Los Angeles.

James

8E45E
11-07-2010, 07:31 AM
Copied from the Jet Thrust site, some additional info on the Canadian R2 Hawks

I just went back and checked again, and my production information shows seven Canadian R2 4-speed Hawks; maybe I am looking at an older list; I certainly admit there are many around who know these cars much better than myself!
Also, in response to another question that came in, I show one R2 Hawk painted Cruiser Maroon. Then again, now I am questioning how accurate my information is!

thanks,

Eric

--- On Wed, 6/24/09, rick b <rickb62@...> wrote:



From: rick b <rickb62@...>
Subject: RE: [S6364JTN] Thanks for info......yep ..... more questions.........
To: s6364jtn@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 10:03 PM


Hi Eric

This doesn't change anything, but my information is that there were 9 R2 4spds and 11 R2 automatics produced in Canada - all with disc brakes - none with the full "Super" package.

Rick
Matt,

I did this on the fly, so I can not guarantee I am 100% accurate here; Using the criteria of only looking at 1963 Hawks which came with R2-4-speed & Disc Brakes, I find 131 cars produced in South Bend. There were an additional 7 Hawks produced in Canada which had the R2 and a 4-speed, though I can not tell what brakes they had. The SouthBend production would include "package" cars, which came standard with the discs.

As far as survivors, my data is somewhat outdated, but I find that at the time, there were 51 1963 R2-4spd-disc brake Hawks accounted for from the South Bend production, and one R2-4spd Canadian built Hawk. These were know survivors at the time, and could range from show cars to parts cars.

Others may have more accurate information; if I have time, I will try to double check my math later.

Eric
--- On Mon, 6/22/09, xcelsior199 <kymanfrommars@ aol.com> wrote:


From: xcelsior199 <kymanfrommars@ aol.com>
Subject: [S6364JTN] Thanks for info......yep ..... more questions... .......
To: S6364JTN@yahoogroup s.com
Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 10:05 PM


Eric,

That is my serial #. How many R2's had the 4 speed and disc brakes? Out of the original cars, how many of those are still on the road? In the fall of 1962, when did Studebaker start producing the '63's? I think the car companies didnt start the new production until Sept? Is that correct?

Matt
Owensboro,KY

--- In S6364JTN@yahoogroup s.com, Eric Derosa <ejderosa@.. .> wrote:
>
> Matt,
>
> Assuming your car still has it's orginal engine #JTS1008, you have serial number 63v-1620, (white, 4-speed, disc brakes, R2) correct? If so, yours was the third R2 Hawk made. According to my roster from a few years ago, both of the prior two still survive.
> R2 engine numbers started at JTS1001, while R1s started at JT1001. Remember, engines were not installed in order - earlier serial number cars might have a later engine number, and vise-versa There were a total of 21 JT-powered cars in total built before yours (Hawks and Larks, excluding Avantis) of which six were R2s
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Eric
>
> --- On Mon, 6/22/09, xcelsior199 <kymanfrommars@ ...> wrote:
>
>
> From: xcelsior199 <kymanfrommars@ ...>
> Subject: [S6364JTN] Bob
> To: S6364JTN@yahoogroup s.com
> Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 12:32 AM

> A little mouse told me that you have all the production info. My R2 Hawk was produced 9/11/62. Yep early ..... early production. The engine # JTS1008 and I was told they started engine at JTS1005. Do you know as far as documented cars still accounted for, is mine the earliest Super Hawk still on the road? Matt

Craig

DEEPNHOCK
11-07-2010, 07:45 AM
Very interesting thread!
Jeff:cool:

Bob Andrews
11-07-2010, 08:00 AM
For a while I was at a stand still on working on my 63 Full Package Hawk SR. I had several verterbrae in my back collapse due to the Multiple Myeloma Cancer I have. i will be getting out of the Hospital today after having 4 raised back up with a balloon and the having cement like super glue inserted. Should be back to finishing the axles and suspenion soon. I know my Great Dane and my 8 month Pyerdane have missid watching me The Doctor told me to just let pain be my guide to the work I do.
Allen

Allen, glad to hear you're doing better. I was glad to have helped you find that car, and know working on it will be good therapy for you. All the best!

Chantony
11-07-2010, 08:56 AM
Nels,you're pretty close about the cars Bergner had,unless he had two 63 R2 Hawks.He was racing an R3 powered Lark and had a black 63 R2 4 speed G.T.This was a rust free California car that had a black interior with white seat inserts and optional headrests as well.I believe it was an early production car and was told it had gone to engineering,but that may not be fact.I bought it in the early eighties for $1500 and still have it. I don't know what became of Jim's lark.
Tony

JDP
11-07-2010, 09:42 AM
Copied from the Jet Thrust site, some additional info on the Canadian R2 Hawks

I just went back and checked again, and my production information shows seven Canadian R2 4-speed Hawks; maybe I am looking at an older list; I certainly admit there are many around who know these cars much better than myself!
Also, in response to another question that came in, I show one R2 Hawk painted Cruiser Maroon. Then again, now I am questioning how accurate my information is!

thanks,

Eric

--- On Wed, 6/24/09, rick b <rickb62@...> wrote:



From: rick b <rickb62@...>
Subject: RE: [S6364JTN] Thanks for info......yep ..... more questions.........
To: s6364jtn@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 10:03 PM


Hi Eric

This doesn't change anything, but my information is that there were 9 R2 4spds and 11 R2 automatics produced in Canada - all with disc brakes - none with the full "Super" package.

Rick
Matt,

I did this on the fly, so I can not guarantee I am 100% accurate here; Using the criteria of only looking at 1963 Hawks which came with R2-4-speed & Disc Brakes, I find 131 cars produced in South Bend. There were an additional 7 Hawks produced in Canada which had the R2 and a 4-speed, though I can not tell what brakes they had. The SouthBend production would include "package" cars, which came standard with the discs.

As far as survivors, my data is somewhat outdated, but I find that at the time, there were 51 1963 R2-4spd-disc brake Hawks accounted for from the South Bend production, and one R2-4spd Canadian built Hawk. These were know survivors at the time, and could range from show cars to parts cars.

Others may have more accurate information; if I have time, I will try to double check my math later.

Eric
--- On Mon, 6/22/09, xcelsior199 <kymanfrommars@ aol.com> wrote:


From: xcelsior199 <kymanfrommars@ aol.com>
Subject: [S6364JTN] Thanks for info......yep ..... more questions... .......
To: S6364JTN@yahoogroup s.com
Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 10:05 PM


Eric,

That is my serial #. How many R2's had the 4 speed and disc brakes? Out of the original cars, how many of those are still on the road? In the fall of 1962, when did Studebaker start producing the '63's? I think the car companies didnt start the new production until Sept? Is that correct?

Matt
Owensboro,KY

--- In S6364JTN@yahoogroup s.com, Eric Derosa <ejderosa@.. .> wrote:
>
> Matt,
>
> Assuming your car still has it's orginal engine #JTS1008, you have serial number 63v-1620, (white, 4-speed, disc brakes, R2) correct? If so, yours was the third R2 Hawk made. According to my roster from a few years ago, both of the prior two still survive.
> R2 engine numbers started at JTS1001, while R1s started at JT1001. Remember, engines were not installed in order - earlier serial number cars might have a later engine number, and vise-versa There were a total of 21 JT-powered cars in total built before yours (Hawks and Larks, excluding Avantis) of which six were R2s
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Eric
>
> --- On Mon, 6/22/09, xcelsior199 <kymanfrommars@ ...> wrote:
>
>
> From: xcelsior199 <kymanfrommars@ ...>
> Subject: [S6364JTN] Bob
> To: S6364JTN@yahoogroup s.com
> Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 12:32 AM

> A little mouse told me that you have all the production info. My R2 Hawk was produced 9/11/62. Yep early ..... early production. The engine # JTS1008 and I was told they started engine at JTS1005. Do you know as far as documented cars still accounted for, is mine the earliest Super Hawk still on the road? Matt

Craig

I get two 1964 R1 GT's painted Avanti maroon. I actually saw one a new one in South Bend and it was stunning.

8E45E
11-07-2010, 10:05 AM
I get two 1964 R1 GT's painted Avanti maroon. I actually saw one a new one in South Bend and it was stunning.

Were they painted at the factory in Avanti Maroon?

The '63 Canadian Spring color, Cruiser Maroon was very dark; a very close match to 1958 Shadowtone Red.

Craig

nels
11-07-2010, 09:40 PM
Tony
I could have sworn the car I looked at was white but that was a long time ago. I think he wanted 1800 or 2000 for it back then. I thought it had taction bars alo but again, that was a long time ago.
Where did James' car come from?

JDP
11-07-2010, 10:07 PM
Were they painted at the factory in Avanti Maroon?

The '63 Canadian Spring color, Cruiser Maroon was very dark; a very close match to 1958 Shadowtone Red.

Craig


That's how they were listed in Super Studebakers, but I've always wondered since Avanti's were not painted in enamel.

8E45E
11-07-2010, 10:30 PM
That's how they were listed in Super Studebakers, but I've always wondered since Avanti's were not painted in enamel.

It is entirely possible as a '64 Daytona convertible was special ordered in Avanti Gray. I really wonder why someone would bother special ordering Avanti Maroon on a Hawk. One would think Bordeaux Red is already close enough in color.

Craig.

StudeRich
11-07-2010, 10:50 PM
/Cut/I really wonder why someone would bother special ordering Avanti Maroon on a Hawk. One would think Bordeaux Red is already close enough in color.Craig.

It's all about the Metallic Craig! Avanti Red (Maroon) is lighter, brighter AND has Metallic, Major difference!
That would be ONE sweet looking car!

8E45E
11-07-2010, 11:17 PM
It's all about the Metallic Craig! Avanti Red (Maroon) is lighter, brighter AND has Metallic, Major difference!
That would be ONE sweet looking car!

1.) Avanti Red (P6434) and Avanti Maroon (P6436) are NOT one and the same.

2.) Avanti Maroon is a solid color, not metallic, but in any case, it is darker than Avanti Red.

Craig

JDP
11-07-2010, 11:31 PM
1.) Avanti Red (P6434) and Avanti Maroon (P6436) are NOT one and the same.

2.) Avanti Maroon is a solid color, not metallic, but in any case, it is darker than Avanti Red.

Craig


Here's the very rare, late Avanti maroon:

JDP
11-07-2010, 11:32 PM
1.) Avanti Red (P6434) and Avanti Maroon (P6436) are NOT one and the same.

2.) Avanti Maroon is a solid color, not metallic, but in any case, it is darker than Avanti Red.

Craig

Here's the very rare, late production Avanti Maroon

StudeRich
11-07-2010, 11:41 PM
OK it is clear that I may be using the wrong word (Maroon) along with '63 Avanti RED, but I call them as they really are, and after the "correct" name I usually mention what the color REALLY looks like, and Avanti Red IS Maroon, as in Corvette Honduras Maroon Metallic.

And of course the '64 Avanti "Maroon", is really Burgundy, solid color AND ugly!

satdoc2
11-08-2010, 09:36 AM
Was the Honduras Red on the early Corvette the same color as the Avanti Red?
Allen

JDP
11-08-2010, 10:07 AM
Was the Honduras Red on the early Corvette the same color as the Avanti Red?
Allen

Yes, but Corvette called it Maroon. Here's my old Avanti Red/Corvette Hondurus Marroon car. It's much more red than the later Avanti Maroon, and more metallic. BTW, note the brand X cars in the background that I sold on ebay. (a dollar made is a dollar made)

Jim B PEI
11-08-2010, 10:37 AM
Now a more interesting number would be how many R1's with the Standard equipment T-86 3 Speed Manual Transmission, certainly NOT desirable, but very rare!

I've seen exactly one GT Hawk with a straight 3 speed (no overdrive), but it was a 4bbl, not an R1, Never seen an Avanti with the 3 speed floor shift, another very rare bird. I know its thread drift, but I wonder how many R1/R2 GT Hawks have an overdrive 3 speed T86 or T85 fitted currently? I guess a T86 wouldn't last all that long even behind an R1 unless used quite gently, and the T85 would require other work to get it in place...

(S)
11-08-2010, 12:21 PM
They'd be too close to the Avanti top speed if the T85 was used. I have thought about putting one in the Hawk, but don't want to change too much on such a rare car..... A 4.27 TT could be used at the track and the OD would get it home on the freeway.

There were some Non R series GT's with a plain 289 and OD, very rare also, probably just a few hundred.

studee64
11-08-2010, 04:08 PM
We have this R-2 on our GT Registry, try clicking on www.studebakergthawkregistry.ca and go to Jet Thrust and locate VIN 63V1620. Click on the main pic to enlarge..

Bellingham Studenut
11-08-2010, 11:08 PM
James, that is a good looking car for sure. Appears to be in great survivor condition. I remember seeing a package, I think, 63 R2 out in southern Calif back in the early 70's. I can't remember the owner's name but he was racing a 60 Lark with an R3 at that time. I am wondering if your car is the one I saw back then? I think his name was Bergner?

Yes, Bergener is correct for the prototype 4spd Super Hawk.

The total of only 4 White R2 Super Hawks built for 1963, with past/present owners:

Early Production Prototypes:

* #23914 R2 4spd Hawk
EW, Engine #S1520, Jim Bergener has owned in CA.

* #23972 R2 powershift Hawk (Motor Trend test car)
EW, Engine #S1522, Currently in Bellingham, WA.

Produced after April anouncement:

* #31103 R2 powershift Hawk
EW, Engine #S1635, Doug Tjapkes had owned in Michigan

* #31403 R2 4spd Hawk
EW, Engine #S1637 Tom Kazale Jr had owned in Chicago

James

Bellingham Studenut
11-08-2010, 11:36 PM
Does that figure include the 20 or so that were produced in Hamilton? Their engine # has an 'JTSC' prefix.

Craig

Actually there were 18 GT Hawks built in 1963 with the supercharged JTSC motors.

#3965 Was painted Cruiser Maroon

None of the Canadian GT's were "Package" "Super" Hawks.

Intersting that there were no powershift cars (11 with only regular flightomatic) and 7 were 4 spd.

The Canadian JTSC engines #'s used were JTSC1101 up to JTSC1120, but missing JTSC1115 and JTSC1116 missing, so you have to wonder what happened with them?

James Bell

Bellingham Studenut
11-09-2010, 12:19 AM
Now a more interesting number would be how many R1's with the Standard equipment T-86 3 Speed Manual Transmission, certainly NOT desirable, but very rare!

There were 4 GT Hawks built with a 3 speed manual trans behind a JT motor.
Looks like one was with Overdrive (#17346) !

James Bell

Chantony
11-09-2010, 08:39 AM
Hi Nels,
I don't have any history on the car,but will try to find some.It has the traction bars and rear sway bar,disc brakes and power steering.
I have another 63 that was Rose Mist,but was painted white some years back.This car is a 4 speed too with Rose Mist? interior or Taupe I think it's called.Interestingly,this one went back to Granatelli in 1965 and had a high output blower fitted with the caution: Not intended for road use and no warranty.I bought this one out of Wyoming.

8E45E
02-12-2013, 06:46 PM
Actually there were 18 GT Hawks built in 1963 with the supercharged JTSC motors.

#3965 Was painted Cruiser Maroon

None of the Canadian GT's were "Package" "Super" Hawks.

Intersting that there were no powershift cars (11 with only regular flightomatic) and 7 were 4 spd.

The Canadian JTSC engines #'s used were JTSC1101 up to JTSC1120, but missing JTSC1115 and JTSC1116 missing, so you have to wonder what happened with them?

Okay, the build sheet arrived today! And today marks exacly 50 years since its Final Assembly date.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8524/8468675681_abb9e5fedc_k.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8111/8469771048_2b3b094489_k.jpg

Strangely, this Hawk has one of these 'missing' engines, JTSC1116; not JTSC1107 as per the production order. Did JTSC1107 fail its break-in test? Or was it replaced under warranty?

The Hawk comes home early next month, and it is a project. (BP, if you ask me to jump off a bridge, for YOU, I will! :) )

Craig

BobPalma
02-12-2013, 06:54 PM
Okay, the build sheet arrived today! And today marks exacly 50 years since its Final Assembly date.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8524/8468675681_abb9e5fedc_k.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8111/8469771048_2b3b094489_k.jpg

Strangely, this Hawk has one of these 'missing' engines, JTSC1116; not JTSC1107 as per the production order. Did JTSC1107 fail its break-in test? Or was it replaced under warranty?

The Hawk comes home early next month, and it is a project. (BP, if you ask me to jump off a bridge, for YOU, I will! :) )

Craig

Cool beans, Craig; congrats on getting the Production Order on the 50th Anniversary of Assembly.

As to the engine serial number mystery, it's by me for the time being. Yes, 1107 could have been replaced under warranty, but it would have had to be pretty soon after delivery for 1116 to still be sitting around and not having been placed in a production car. ;) BP

SN-60
02-12-2013, 07:05 PM
Craig,

That is the same one featured in the Motor Trend magazine article, but had some unusual wheels on it back then.
The magazine had some great photo's of the car in action!
The production order for it was 2 pages long and was sent to engeneering before Los Angeles.

James

Beautiful Hawk!....But I don't believe that the "Super" badges (Grille and Fender) were on the car in the Motor Trend Magazine article....No?

Bellingham Studenut
02-12-2013, 07:42 PM
Beautiful Hawk!....But I don't believe that the "Super" badges (Grille and Fender) were on the car in the Motor Trend Magazine article....No?

No badges (they were not yet available) as mentioned and shown in the article.
The 160 speedometer specified was also not available yet, so it got a chrome Avanti 160 speedometer.

James

Bellingham Studenut
02-12-2013, 07:46 PM
Okay, the build sheet arrived today! And today marks exacly 50 years since its Final Assembly date.


Strangely, this Hawk has one of these 'missing' engines, JTSC1116; not JTSC1107 as per the production order. Did JTSC1107 fail its break-in test? Or was it replaced under warranty?

The Hawk comes home early next month, and it is a project. (BP, if you ask me to jump off a bridge, for YOU, I will! :) )

Craig


Congrats Craig!
The engine is a bit of a mystery, but I'm sure you will find the answer.
I look forward to seeing it!

James

Alan
02-12-2013, 07:50 PM
Has anyone seen Jim Bergener or his car lately? Last I saw of him is back in the 80's.

SN-60
02-12-2013, 10:10 PM
No badges (they were not yet available) as mentioned and shown in the article.
The 160 speedometer specified was also not available yet, so it got a chrome Avanti 160 speedometer.

James

So the badges were installed by someone at a later date on this vehicle?

Bellingham Studenut
02-12-2013, 11:04 PM
So the badges were installed by someone at a later date on this vehicle?

No badges (they were not yet available) as mentioned and shown in the article.
They may have been dealer installed if available before it was sold, but not when built, or before the article info.

Randy Bohannon
01-06-2015, 04:15 PM
Craig -I have a '63 GT R2 #63v1640 (correct)engine #JTS1006. Came with 4spd, front discs, front stabilizer bar. I have added HD front and rear stabilizer bars, HD springs, HD shocks and factory torsion bars as per the Super Hawk package. Lacks 160mph speedo and red line tach. Just went through everything on the car. Very much still on the road. - Randy

8E45E
01-06-2015, 04:57 PM
Craig -I have a '63 GT R2 #63v1640 (correct)engine #JTS1006. Came with 4spd, front discs, front stabilizer bar. I have added HD front and rear stabilizer bars, HD springs, HD shocks and factory torsion bars as per the Super Hawk package. Lacks 160mph speedo and red line tach. Just went through everything on the car. Very much still on the road. - Randy

Excellent news, Randy!!! But if its a Hamilton car, the serial number should read "63VC1640 and the engine # should also read "JTSC1006. Sounds like yours is a South Bend car, and might be the second R2 '63 G.T. Hawk made. More info on the first and third car here: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?14950-Early-1963-JTS-Cars&highlight=jts1008

Craig

mbstude
01-06-2015, 06:27 PM
Excellent news, Randy!!! But if its a Hamilton car, the serial number should read "63VC1640 and the engine # should also read "JTSC1006. Sounds like yours is a South Bend car, and might be the second R2 '63 G.T. Hawk made. More info on the first and third car here: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?14950-Early-1963-JTS-Cars&highlight=jts1008

Craig

Hey Craig. Just an interesting side note; the car that Michael Float posted about (63V1620, 3rd R2 Hawk made) in the thread you linked to is the same car that you and I (and my dog!) rode in when we went around the Proving Ground test track during the 2012 South Bend national meet. Matt Frushour bought it from Michael Float, then spent a chunk making it a first place show car. Last I heard it's now in a museum in Arizona, but I could be wrong. I'm pretty much "out of the loop" these days.

nels
01-06-2015, 06:40 PM
OK, here's the actual production totals for 1963 Full Package, R2 Super Hawks:

Four-Speeds: 16. Of the sixteen 4-speeds, here are the colors:

Ermine White: 2
Regal Red: 2
Champagne Gold: 2
Super Red: 9
Rose Mist: 1



Powershift: 26. Of the 26 Powershift cars, here are the colors:

Ermine White: 2
Regal Red: 1
Champagne Gold: 1
Super Red: 21
Velvet Black: 1

Bob
I think there was a blue mist ps R2 pkg car built. I think it was the last one built and is one of the cars after the remainder of the production orders were located.

8E45E
01-07-2015, 07:01 AM
Hey Craig. Just an interesting side note; the car that Michael Float posted about (63V1620, 3rd R2 Hawk made) in the thread you linked to is the same car that you and I (and my dog!) rode in when we went around the Proving Ground test track during the 2012 South Bend national meet. Matt Frushour bought it from Michael Float, then spent a chunk making it a first place show car. Last I heard it's now in a museum in Arizona, but I could be wrong. I'm pretty much "out of the loop" these days.

Yes, Matt, I remember the ride in that car when Matt F. still owned it. I also referenced it in post #30 in this thread.

As far as being 'out of the loop', you are missed around here.

Craig

Neil
01-07-2015, 07:56 AM
I remember looking at a black 63 Hawk R-2 for sale back in 1970 when I was in the Army outside of Richmond Va. It was like show room new,powershift,I think cause it was out of my reach at 4500.00 so don't remember all the details.Could this have been the only one built?

8E45E
01-07-2015, 08:52 AM
I remember looking at a black 63 Hawk R-2 for sale back in 1970 when I was in the Army outside of Richmond Va. It was like show room new,powershift,I think cause it was out of my reach at 4500.00 so don't remember all the details.Could this have been the only one built?

If it was a full package Super Hawk, indeed. But if it was an early R2, or a later car without the '46A' package option, most likely not.

Craig

Guido
01-17-2015, 09:09 PM
I remember looking at a black 63 Hawk R-2 for sale back in 1970 when I was in the Army outside of Richmond Va. It was like show room new,powershift,I think cause it was out of my reach at 4500.00 so don't remember all the details.Could this have been the only one built?

There is (was) a black factory R-2 '63 4 speed GT in the Richmond area. I last saw it about 7-8 years ago, it was a one owner car. I was in NAPA getting some brake parts for my Stude 4x4. Was standing in line to check out and saw the car outside and asked who owned it. While we were talking a local chapter member came in, he still has the Avanti his mother bought new. When is the last time you saw three Stude owners in the same auto parts store?

Randy Bohannon
10-16-2017, 11:18 AM
This is my '63 GT R2 Champaign Gold. 63V-1640, JTS1006. Came with R2, 4 Spd and discs. I added HD springs, HD front and rear anti sway bars, traction bars, 160mph Speedo, Red line Tach and Halibrands.
'52 Commander Starlight
'63 GT R2
'64 Daytona convert

8E45E
10-16-2017, 05:02 PM
This is my '63 GT R2 Champaign Gold. 63V-1640, JTS1006.

And the second R2 Hawk built. http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?90273-63-R2-Superhawk-4spd&highlight=jts1006

Craig

avanti-hawk
10-17-2017, 07:01 PM
Great thread!! I really enjoy reading about these cars, so thanks and keep it going!!