PDA

View Full Version : what are your thoughts?



bezhawk
10-17-2010, 05:02 PM
I posted this in response to Peter Millers latest newsletter. I hope he doesn't mind I am also going to post it here.


It takes deep pockets to restore to original. But, if NO ONE restores their cars to an exacting degree, then the original car becomes that much rarer.
It is possible that with very rare cars, that there will be no original copies left from which to garner the true nature of the beast as manufactured. When everyone personalizes their vehicles, it becomes that much harder to find an unmolested example.
We are lucky to have a marque that has thousands of copies from which to choose.
If one chooses to modify a vehicle to enhance performance or safety, then it's ok by me that they do so....after all machines can be repaired, people, not so much.
Conversely, kudos to the preservationist that tries to restore to an exacting originality. I have been on both sides of the coin (does that make me schizophrenic)? Should I answer myself?

To me seeing (for example) a 56 Golden Hawk all rodded out with a big block Chevy drive-train, makes me think, gee it's nice to see a car not scrapped and put to use. But seeing a restored 56 Golden Hawk with the big Packard V8 and wide white wall tires and all the original grandeur makes me say wow! fantastic! years ahead of the so called muscle car...etc.
The impact of what the vehicle had to the era is lost forever when it is so drastically altered.
To me vehicles are more than just motorized conveyances of a stylists dream. They are the accumulation of many peoples efforts in engineering and the like, as well as styling.

Brad

okc63avanti
10-17-2010, 05:36 PM
Bez,










You pose a very good question. Undoubtly the original Studebaker Avanti (4647 made) is rare. I struggled with the decision on my Avanti as to 100% stock vs. modified. My decision was made after contemplating serveral things.
The Avanti will be owned by me for the rest of my life, and God willing that is another 30~40 years.
I may not have the funds I have now in the future to do everything I want to my car.
I do not want a show piece or museum car but a car I can truly enjoy driving in comfort.
The Avanti is unique in that the body continued to be produced, many of the parts are common to other Studes or makes and changes if not too radical can be reversed.
Thinking on all these things my car will have original chassis, matching body and engine #'s but is being changed from an R1 with AC to an R2 with AC, from automatic to 5 speed manual. I wanted performance and with ported heads, R3 valves, cam & headers and a custom rebuilt Paxton supercharger, these changes will give me what I want. I opted for a non-Avanti color and a 1983 Avanti II Recaro leather interior for comfort and for safety it is receiving 4 wheel disc brakes and a dual master cyclinder.

My goal is a tastefully done resto-mod of an original Studebaker Avanti. I know I could of done something similar to an Avanti II, and not received grief and criticism from some in our club but I wanted to remake or update the Avanti to maybe some of the changes we might have seen over the years had Studebaker continued as a marque.

I can't wait for it to be finished, but I am learning patience and don't want to rush what I am hoping will be the car of my dreams, a comfortable, safe and fun (FAST) car to drive to shows and meets anywhere in the country. Hopefully she will be an eye catching beauty and bring home a few trophies as well, but in the end it will be about having fun driving my car, meeting people and enjoying life. In the end the SDC is not about the cars, it is all about some of the best people in the world and getting to know them.

JDP
10-17-2010, 05:42 PM
Bez,










You pose a very good question. Undoubtly the original Studebaker Avanti (4647 made) is rare. I struggled with the decision on my Avanti as to 100% stock vs. modified. My decision was made after contemplating serveral things.
The Avanti will be owned by me for the rest of my life, and God willing that is another 30~40 years.
I may not have the funds I have now in the future to do everything I want to my car.
I do not want a show piece or museum car but a car I can truly enjoy driving in comfort.
The Avanti is unique in that the body continued to be produced, many of the parts are common to other Studes or makes and changes if not too radical can be reversed.
Thinking on all these things my car will have original chassis, matching body and engine #'s but is being changed from an R1 with AC to an R2 with AC, from automatic to 5 speed manual. I wanted performance and with ported heads, R3 valves, cam & headers and a custom rebuilt Paxton supercharger, these changes will give me what I want. I opted for a non-Avanti color and a 1983 Avanti II Recaro leather interior for comfort and for safety it is receiving 4 wheel disc brakes and a dual master cyclinder.

My goal is a tastefully done resto-mod of an original Studebaker Avanti. I know I could of done something similar to an Avanti II, and not received grief and criticism from some in our club but I wanted to remake or update the Avanti to maybe some of the changes we might have seen over the years had Studebaker continued as a marque.

I can't wait for it to be finished, but I am learning patience and don't want to rush what I am hoping will be the car of my dreams, a comfortable, safe and fun (FAST) car to drive to shows and meets anywhere in the country. Hopefully she will be an eye catching beauty and bring home a few trophies as well, but in the end it will be about having fun driving my car, meeting people and enjoying life. In the end the SDC is not about the cars, it is all about some of the best people in the world and getting to know them.

Something like this ?

http://wilmington.craigslist.org/cto/2009026584.html

okc63avanti
10-17-2010, 05:49 PM
Something like this ?

With the exception of the Chevy engine, not too far off. Mine will be a lot more expensive JP, but then again its my car and my money. Look at it this way ....I am doing my part to provide a financial stimulus package to Studebaker artisans and vendors .... :D LOL

StudeRich
10-17-2010, 06:03 PM
Why would you sell a $22,750.00 average retail Avanti for $9,495.00?

A Corvette Engine and no Overdrive lowers it that much?

JDP
10-17-2010, 06:17 PM
It would bring close to that bone stock, but the seats, steering wheel, drive line and the rest so hurt the collecroe value, but a great car to keep upgrading as a resto-rod. BTW I can find a decent "core" Avanti to build from scratch. (Good frame, troughs and body, but needing paint, chrome and interior)

fatboylust
10-17-2010, 07:20 PM
Hod Rod, Custom, Rat, Stock, Restored, Survivor, like Baskin & Robins there are all those flavors for a reason. I know which one's I like best but admire the skill, talent and commitment each requires. Six months ago I never thought I would have project to do. My pockets are not deep enough I am sure, so it going to take a while. The friend I bought the car from offered a complete bullet-nose clip to go with it and seemed stunned when I said I didn't want it. He drives a 47 business coupe with a bullet-nose, air ride, and SBC. It is a beautiful car which he has done 90+% of the work. It is not me. Of course a 52 Starliner is (as I have learned) a tough Studebaker to put back together. 52s don't seem to get a lot of respect and the aftermarket barely scratches the surface on the Starliners special needs. I will always admire most the well preserved survivor.

Bob Andrews
10-17-2010, 08:09 PM
Here's the key thing to remember- at least IMO: While I do see the need for correct, accurate stock restos, I have observed that there are always more of most any given car out there hidden away, yet to be dicovered. We've seen many examples of this here, like the R2 Lark we followed here. Probably the Horch that was found in a barn an hour from my house was the perfect example: there were only four known examples, all accounted for, yet here came this one no Horch expert around the world knew about- now there are "only five".

So, never fear- if you want to customize, go for it- there's more out there:)

JRoberts
10-17-2010, 08:20 PM
Why would you sell a $22,750.00 average retail Avanti for $9,495.00?

A Corvette Engine and no Overdrive lowers it that much?

A Studebaker friend of mine who owns two Avantis looked at this car and claims it is really as nice as it looks in the pictures. The engine is cocked at a slight angle to fit under the hood. Why -- don't ask me, but my friend claims it is. He also says that although the idea behind the car could make it a nice ride, the execution of the ideas have not been carried out very well. This car has been on Cragslist for a long time. I believe it started off two or three thousand dollars higher than it is listed now.

Gunslinger
10-17-2010, 10:56 PM
Your car...your money. Do what you like. You, as well as anyone else doesn't need my approval to what you do to your car. That being said, I chose an Avanti II primarily for the reason I could change whatever I liked and wouldn't feel like I was "adulterating" an original car.

bezhawk
10-17-2010, 11:02 PM
Perhaps the gist of the original post is confusing....or the header.
Anyways, I'm not seeking approval or dis-approval on modifications rather your opinions on where the general collector car movement is headed.

I don't offer any dis-approval either, only stateing my preferences.

Gunslinger
10-17-2010, 11:05 PM
Perhaps the gist of the original post is confusing....or the header.
Anyways, I'm not seeking approval or dis-approval on modifications rather your opinions on where the general collector car movement is headed.

I don't offer any dis-approval either, only stateing my preferences.

I was only stating my own feeling on the matter and my own preference, not passing judgement on you.

Rerun
10-18-2010, 05:31 AM
I think that there is plenty of room in the hobby for restored vehicles as well as modifieds. I think that this will hold true for the foreseeable future. A lot depends on the individual vehicle, as well as the owner. Rather than modify my very original '63 Avanti, I chose to go with a '78 Avanti II modified cosmetically to resemble a '64. More than one way to skin a cat.

Corvanti
10-18-2010, 08:54 AM
since it's my car that's been brought up, let me tell you very briefly...

i bought it off of ebay with the corvette stuff already in it BEFORE i started lurking here almost 2 years ago. would i buy it now? no!!! the non-avanti seats that were in it were totally rusted out, the trans had no reverse, the engine barely ran, etc. etc. let's just say the avanti was not quite as advertised...

i had just finished restoring a C-3 corvette and i have always liked studes. the price was ok, the sbc i was quite familiar with - so put in an interior and have fun!!! with the corvette stuff - including the rearend - batwing and all, it was rough to tell on the bottom where the vette ended and the avanti began.

i have purchased a lot of items (around $5K) for cosmetics: vanity for the glove box, stude radio, upolstery, engine chrome, etc. that most is still in boxes waiting for installation.

before i bought it, my health was ok - given several lower back fusions, but i've had 4 surgerys in the past year. so that brings me up to 4 lumbar fusions, a total hip replacement, knee elbow and foot surgerys, and now an implanted pain pump. i still plan on "messin' with cars" when i'm able.

that's why the car is for sale. i've priced it high (given the market), because i really don't care if it sells or not. (the mrs. does, but that's another story) :rolleyes: the doctor bills have taken most of my car money right now, but i still want to play! if it doesn't sell, i'll hopefully get back to working on it soon.

i don't expect a stude purist to buy this. as mr. roberts stated, a sdc member, (which i am now), came to look it over last fall, i think, and his views were correct. but if someone wants something to play with, this could be a fine car for that purpose. (and i'll take 7K for it anytime :) )...

anyway, i hopefully will be in the market soon for either a "correct" (or almost correct) bullet nose or a finned hawk...

now, back to topic: i think there is room for everyone here - purists and modders.
i just want both!!!

JDP
10-18-2010, 10:27 AM
since it's my car that's been brought up, let me tell you very briefly...

i bought it off of ebay with the corvette stuff already in it BEFORE i started lurking here almost 2 years ago. would i buy it now? no!!! the non-avanti seats that were in it were totally rusted out, the trans had no reverse, the engine barely ran, etc. etc. let's just say the avanti was not quite as advertised...

i had just finished restoring a C-3 corvette and i have always liked studes. the price was ok, the sbc i was quite familiar with - so put in an interior and have fun!!! with the corvette stuff - including the rearend - batwing and all, it was rough to tell on the bottom where the vette ended and the avanti began.

i have purchased a lot of items (around $5K) for cosmetics: vanity for the glove box, stude radio, upolstery, engine chrome, etc. that most is still in boxes waiting for installation.

before i bought it, my health was ok - given several lower back fusions, but i've had 4 surgerys in the past year. so that brings me up to 4 lumbar fusions, a total hip replacement, knee elbow and foot surgerys, and now an implanted pain pump. i still plan on "messin' with cars" when i'm able.

that's why the car is for sale. i've priced it high (given the market), because i really don't care if it sells or not. (the mrs. does, but that's another story) :rolleyes: the doctor bills have taken most of my car money right now, but i still want to play! if it doesn't sell, i'll hopefully get back to working on it soon.

i don't expect a stude purist to buy this. as mr. roberts stated, a sdc member, (which i am now), came to look it over last fall, i think, and his views were correct. but if someone wants something to play with, this could be a fine car for that purpose. (and i'll take 7K for it anytime :) )...

anyway, i hopefully will be in the market soon for either a "correct" (or almost correct) bullet nose or a finned hawk...

now, back to topic: i think there is room for everyone here - purists and modders.
i just want both!!!

If someone does not jump on your car for 7K, give me a few weeks to pay off the 2 I'm chasing and I'll be all over it at that price. BTW, I'd be happy to ebay it for you right now and I'll pay the fees if I can keep the profit over 7K. :)

Corvanti
10-18-2010, 01:29 PM
If someone does not jump on your car for 7K, give me a few weeks to pay off the 2 I'm chasing and I'll be all over it at that price. BTW, I'd be happy to ebay it for you right now and I'll pay the fees if I can keep the profit over 7K. :)

sounds ok, but give me until around the 1st of nov. i've got a couple of guys seriously looking, and i should be up and around bit more - might be well enough to get back to working on it...
p.s. - i've followed your ads on ebay for a couple of years, and would never have a problem buying something y'all have been through.

JDP
10-18-2010, 02:10 PM
That date might work for me if I sell a Avanti or two, but I find it hard to believe someone won't neat me to your car.