Studebaker Power Steering Hoses Replace - how to

[sbca96]

EDIT for picture location, and to add critical Q & A thread link.

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7602

The above link covers changes to the bends that were REQUIRED to use
the SI hoses. As delivered the hose would NOT allow the wheels to be
turned both direction. A tubing bender was required, along with a
vice and some choice sware words. 12/31/08

Now back to the original thread:

This is something I am NOT looking forward too. Talk about messy. We
had a '63 Wagonaire that needed hose replacement, I did that one too.
That was [u]many</u> years ago, I was a bit more flexible .......[B)]

I thought it was worthwhile to document as best I could how the hoses
are routed from the factory. I took a bunch of pictures and thats how
I will start this thread - by just posting them in the first entry.























Tom

'63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: 97 Z28 T-56 6-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires

[DEEPNHOCK]

Good on ya' for taking before pic's.
That will definitely help you when it comes to reassembly.
Jeff[8D]

[Mike]

Tom,
Thanks for posting the great pictures. Power steering hoses are often routed badly, on Avanti's.
The hoses to the ram, from the control valve, are well shown in the illustration from the parts book, and pictures Stan Gundry posted:
http://www.studebaker-info.org/tech/Diagrams/PS2.JPG .
http://talkshop.blogs.com/photos/photos/index.html .
However, the parts book shows only an early version of the hoses to the pump. The metal portion of these early hoses goes straight forward on the control valve. They route up, to the rear of the steering box.
The metal portion of later pump hoses, like the ones on your car, curves to the rear, like the hoses to the ram. I don't think Stude made a drawing that shows routing of these later hoses.
My pictures of the hoses on the control valve are in the photos at the Yahoo Avanti site, or at:
http://www.studebaker-info.org/tech/...valvehose.html . Identification is clearer with a little more punctuation, or if each hose is explained on a separate line. I think I was done in by "wrapping"!
#1: Yellow, Ram, Bottom, Right Turn.
#2: Green, Ram, Top, Left Turn.
#3: Blue, Pump, Pressure.
#4: Red, Pump, Return.
Your excellent pictures show the clamp on the pump hoses that's on the fender apron of later cars. On these, the pump hoses route around the front of the power steering box, and up the apron. I posted a picture of the hoses on Paul Johnson's '64 Avanti, in "Files", at the Yahoo site. Contrast under the hood is better, because of the color of the car.
I'm supprised to see the clamps nearest the control valve on your car. Do you think they are original? I have only one clamp at that spot; and it's used for the fuel lines. The rubber portion of my pump hoses curve up and forward, above the control valve. Then, they go around the front of the steering box, and up the apron, to the only clamp. The unrestricted length gives more flexibility; and doesn't leave them loose enough to hang down, or get into trouble.
The hoses to the ram on my car have no clamp at the control valve either. The first one is as shown in the parts book; and there is a second further forward.
My car is a '64. Neither power steering hoses or fuel lines were original when I bought it. I "rediscovered" the hole for the clamp in my fender apron when I replaced the hoses. I certainly can't guarantee I've routed them, or positioned them on the control valve, the way the factory did. Maybe I have. All the clamps and mounting screws in the late parts book are accounted for; and the hoses fit pretty well.
Mike M.

[N8N]

All I have to say is "me three" - I wish more people would document original routing of hoses, lines etc. for those of us who inherit "not quite factory" cars

nate

(still wouldn't mind having a set of same for a '55 coupe with power steering)

--
55 Commander Starlight

http://members.cox.net/njnagel

[sbca96]

I believe they are original, this car "only" has 100k on it, though
it was 'restored' in the 80's. I dont know to what degree that means,
and I have no clue what they did. After going through the car, I bet
it was only interior and paint. Mechanically the car is in OK shape,
but not rebuilt-in-the-80's shape. Since the 'restoration' the car
has received MAYBE 600-1000 miles. Maybe others will confirm the two
clamp setup, but the routing seems to work pretty good. Do you think
that its an improvement?

Tom

[studeclunker]

The manual recommends pulling the motor to do this. I have to concurr. Getting to the lines to tighten them is a bugger when the motor is in place. If it is taken loose and raised about a foot (getting everything out of the way), the problem is solved. I had to pull the motor in my '63 wagon and that's when I replaced the hoses. The routing of the hoses is CRITICAL! I found this out when the exhaust manifold burnt through my return hose.


Home of the famous Mr. Ed!
Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

[sbca96]

Yes, I have been told the best way (other then pulling the engine) is
to remove the pitman arm with the control valve and the hoses still
attached. Then, clean, put in a vice remove the hoses, reinstalling
the new ones the same way, and snaking the hoses back where they were.

The next step after taking the above pictures is to test this theory
and see if it can be done. Looks possible. I need a larger pickle
fork for the pitman arm though. I bought a threaded tierod puller, it
is supposed to also pull pitman arms, but I dont know if it has the
reach. Hopefully all will go well.

Tom

[Mike]

If the routing works pretty good, that's a strong argument in its favor! My interest in how the factory did it, is as much in finding a good way to do it, as for the sake of originality. Make sure the hoses don't kink or pull too tightly through the full range of control valve movement.
I think your clamps are examples of the original Stude "clip, 1543994". I found only three listed for the whole car in the Dec. '63 parts book. Two are in the power cylinder and control valve section. They are secured to the frame with two self tapping 1/4" screws. I think these are the two used separately on the hoses to the ram, further forward than the pair in your picture.
A third clip, with the same #, is listed with the pump parts. It's held to the fender apron by a 5/8" long 1/4 20 screw, nut, and washer. I think the fact that it's a through hole, without a nut plate in the fiberglass like the horn relay and regulator, indicates it was an after thought or revision. Early cars, with the other type pump hose, ran the hose beside the exhaust manifold; and wouldn't have used it.
Since your car is a '63, it may have had the earlier type hose originally. Is the retainer spring or its bracket still in place on the steering box, like in the drawing I listed above? Maybe the later style hoses were installed in the '80's, with the double clamps as an innovation.
I took a quick look at mine. The clamp on my fuel lines in that area is retained by a bolt through the flange at the edge of the frame; not the center of the bottom plate. Oddly enough, I used two "Adel" clamps held by one bolt, like your PS clamps, to hold the fuel feed and return lines. I don't know what the original arrangement there was.
Mike M.

[Mike]

I recommend removing and installing the control valve and pitman arm assembly with the hoses attached. That's how I did my Avanti.
The pitman arm puller I used looks exactly like the one Summit Racing sells for $14.95, WMR-W142 @ :
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsea...s=false&N=+115 .
I replaced the puller's bolt with a short, 1/2" fine thread hex bolt, reversed, so the head bears against the end of the steering box shaft. I have two bolts in the box with the puller, 1 1/2" & 2" long, threaded all the way up. I'm not sure which worked. The shaft isn't tapered; and I remember the arm came off easily. There is a mark on the arm and shaft, so you can put it back in the same position.
It's a good time to replace the seal on the steering box shaft.
The tie rod end on the reach rod came loose with a pickle fork. It's easier to get to than the one for the ram, which I unscrewed, like you did.
Total length of the reach rod and control valve is specified in the manual. It has to be right, as well as the pitman arm position on the shaft, to center the steering worm. The worm is wound to give progressively faster steering, away from center, when the wheels are pointed straight ahead. The lengths of the two tie rods should be the same, too.
On the control valve, there are soft aluminum seats in the valve housing that the flared hose ends seat against. These are often pretty beat up. One really should come out, to clean a check valve behind it. These may be a standard hardware item. Does anyone know where to get them? I left mine as they were, and hoped for the best with the check valve; but it would be nice to know where to get them.
Mike M.

[sbca96]

Dammit .. the one I just bought was like WMR-W80557. Think it might
work? So the pitman arm is marked, I seem to remember that, but is it
also missing one "groove" so that it only goes on one way? For some
reason I seem to remember this being the case on my '60 Hawk. No?

Also, did you find you needed to remove the started to get enough room
to work on the pitman arm? Looks like it might help. I just do not
want to remove anything more then I have too - after seeing the damage
someone did to the Ram pivot bolt threads. My guess is it was put on
with an impact gun. The bushing looks to be in TOO good of shape. So
you might be right that the hoses and such were changed in the 80's.

Tom

quote:Originally posted by Mike

The pitman arm puller I used looks exactly like the one Summit Racing sells for $14.95, WMR-W142

[Mike]

The puller I used was definitely like Summit's WMR-W142. I just checked "opening" and "pull travel". I don't know what they mean by "3/8 inch drive", though. It isn't.
The other one is only a little smaller. Maybe it will work. You will need to use a shorter, reversed, center screw.
I did have the starter off.
I think if the seal has been leaking badly enough, you might not need a puller!
I don't remember if there is a groove missing on the pitman arm, so it will only go on one way. There was a mark. You should make one if you don't see it.
Mike M.

[sbca96]

I wish .. thats not MY kind of luck though. Actually I dont see any
leakage from the steering box. I bought the seal, but I am tempted to
NOT change it. I hate disturbing things that are OK. But as you and
I BOTH know, if I leave it .... THEN it will start leaking.[xx(]

Tom

quote:Originally posted by Mike

I think if the seal has been leaking badly enough, you might not need a puller!

[Lenny R2]

Tom
I just finished changing my P.S. hoses on my 64 Avanti R2.I removed
the starter and took the exhaust pipe loose.It was a struggle but you
can remove & replace the hoses with the control valve on the car.I
hope i never have to change them again.I had to grind a few line wrenchs
down to fit.

Lenny

[bige]

I've done mine twice on the car. If you're replacing them just cut the tubing and use a socket to remove the nuts. There are replacement hoses that are bent wrong and I had to buy a second set from a different vendor to get hoses that worked.

ErnieR




On its way to a 15.097 Spring 2006.

[sbca96]

quote:Originally posted by bige
There are replacement hoses that are bent wrong and I had to buy a second set from a different vendor to get hoses that worked.

Thats covered on the link I just added to the top, yes the hoses had
been bent incorrectly, here is the incorrect bend and rebend :





Tom