Avanti--Youngstown?

[jtjim]

I happen to live near to Youngstown, Ohio (the garden spot of the Eastern US!!) Anyhow, when I go to a cruise or car show with my 64 Avanti, invariably I have people telling me that this Avanti was one of those built in Youngstown. Then I learn that the engine is a Ford 289. It is a lot of fun educating people who really don't know much about Studebaker in general and Avanti in particular. I have yet to have anyone tell me that they were built in Argentina!

So, my questions are these---Are all the Newman-Altman Avantis "Avanti II"? What about the Blake Avantis--Are they Avanti II or just Avanti? What about Kelly?

Any Avantis after 1964 are not titled "Studebaker"--right?

When did they start using Monti Carlo chassis? Was it Blake that did that?

I see some late model 2003--2007 Avantis in the TW meet issue. Where were these made? What chassis are under them? I am aware of late model Mustang chassis ??

Is someone still building Avantis? I heard that someone is trying to build them in Mexico but ended up in Prison--??

I hope someone can educate me so that I can be accurate when I talk to others about the Avanti. Thanks

[okc63avanti]

Check out this website it has a lot of information on the Avanti to answer your questions ...

http://www.theavanti.com/

[studefan]

A couple items. The engine is absolutely Studebaker (1963 and 1964). And, some later model Avantis were in fact made in Youngstown.

[Gunslinger]

Real quick answers...

All Altman cars are Avanti II's. Steve Blake dropped the "II" after he bought the company.
All Avanti's after the 1964 model year are NOT Studebakers.
THe Monte Carlo chassis began with the 1987 model year. It was due to many reasons...lack of original type frames, the obsolescence of the original frame, the need to meet Federal safety standards and other reasons.
Mike Kelly owned the company at that time but the transition development may have begun under Blake.
Avanti's from 2001-2004 were built in Villa Rica, GA on Pontiac TransAm platforms. In 2005 the Ford Mustang platform was used and also built in Villa Rica. 2006-2007 Avanti's used the newer Ford Mustang platform. Some were built in Villa Rica but production moved to Cancun, Mexico in late 2006 before production was halted near the end of the year after the arrest in the US of Mike Kelly for an alleged financial/real estate scam. He's still in the Federal lockup awaiting trial...supposedly some kind of deal is being worked out.

[studegary]

"Gunslinger" gave a very good response and synopsis. He also saved me the trouble of inputting this information <G>.
I will add that 1987 models were made in South Bend initially, as my own was, and then the later 1987 models, through the 1991 models, were made in Yougstown, Ohio. Even though the early 1987 models were built in South Bend, they are on the Chevrolet chassis.

[Sdude]

When Chevrolet dropped the Monte Carlo line they switched to Caprice chassis. I understand JJ Cafaro (Youngstown) paid Calloway $500,000 to develop a chassis for the Avanti but it never made it to production. Federal safety standards and a mysterious fire at the Youngstown factory put the Avanti out of business for a few years in the early 90s.

You will hear the Ford comment from those that think they know everything. It may be because Ford also made a 289 and Studebaker used engines from other manufacturers (Chevy) when they were built in Canada. Things get all muddied up in old guys brains. You also may be told they built Avantis in Canada but we know better.

Glad you are interested in educating yourself so you can set the record straight - one guy at a time. Just don't get too frustrated when you meet up with the guy that "knows more than you" and will not be interested in being corrected.

Being from Youngstown area you should hear some interesting insights. I met up with a librarian that came from your area and she refered to the Avanti as a Mafia car. She swore JJ Cafaro had Mafia ties. Don't know if it's true and don't really care - but it does make the story fascinating...

[jtjim]

Thanks for the input. I have learned a lot about Studebaker over the last 50 years (I got my first Stude in 1961) but it seems there are always new questions popping up. A friend just called yesterday to ask me about a 1991 Avanti Convertible he is considering. Unfortunately I couldn't tell him much since my knowledge on the newest Avantis ---1987-2007--is pretty sketchy. I will try to fill in some of the blanks as time goes on. I will probably join the Avanti Owners Club which is a good source of info. Gunslingers post answered most of my questions. Thanks to all.

I had the chance to talk to a man who owns an American Motors AMX the other day. He said he gets the same kind on coments about the 390 cu in engine being a Ford. He said that American Motors also made a 327 which is definitely not a Chevy.

Youngstown has had a sordid history. There has been a lot of corruption and a lot of gangland style killings over the years. Probably not worse than many cities. JJ Cafaro just got out of prison after serving time for false reporting of campaign contributions and is being investigated again. If you would like to read more about Cafaro, Google -- J.J. Cafaro. You will find that he is a very colorful character. It seems that he and Kelly had a lot in common!
This area has been hit very hard by the loss of most industry starting in the 70's when the steel mills all closed. We still have one fairly large GM assembly plant at Lordstown, Ohio which is now building the Chevy Cruze.

[comatus]

What, nobody's going to "Defend Youngstown"?
Over here in Holy Toledo, we say Youngstown doesn't have Mafia ties. The Mafia has Youngstown ties.

I know some very nice people there, you won't find more good Italian restaurants anywhere, Pennsylvania is close, and there really are garden spots--especially the reservoirs along the Mahoning Valley, where my son got his first deer. There, I said something nice.

[JBOYLE]

...there really are garden spots--especially the reservoirs along the Mahoning Valley....

Wait!
What's that floating in the water?
Looks like a body....

[Bill Pressler]

Jim, as you know I grew up in little Greenville, PA, only 25 miles NE of Youngstown. We never claimed Youngstown as the 'nearest big city' though! We'd always say, "midway between Pittsburgh and Erie" although Youngstown was far closer than either of those cities! Some of that was a result of an Ohio vs. Pennsylvania pride thing going on, but we always heard the Mafia ties stories too. I was only in Youngstown I think twice in my first 18 years!

When I was a kid, there was an old Italian guy in town who was a widower. Rumor was his wife was murdered in Youngstown as a 'mob hit' payback on him many years before, and he moved to Greenville to get away from it all. In actuality, one would have to move a lot farther from Youngstown than Greenville, PA to get away from the mob who was looking for you!

[Bill Pressler]

I also had an old friend (although don't see/speak too often these days) who applied for a job at Avanti while he and I were in South Bend "sleuthing", after he heard that Avanti was hiring for Youngstown jobs. He did in fact get hired at Youngstown and worked about three years I'm thinking. He did a little bit of everything, but when he left he had a bad taste in his mouth for the whole operation, unfortunately.

[studegary]

Only convertibles were made for 1991. They were a wider car than the earlier convertibles due to a different chassis. They are quite rare. I think that there were 15 made (some sources give 16 as the number made). They were made in Youngstown by AAC, Inc. The 1991 was the last Avanti made until 2001 (the 1997s were AVXs).

[jtjim]

Actually I am about 15 miles from Youngstown. I live in Mecca----Really. Mecca Township. Talk about garden spots!!! Our claim to fame is a reservoir named -----ready for this-----Mosquito Lake!! Really.

Does anyone know what kind of quality was built into the Kelly and Cafaro Avantis. I suppose the mechanics are strictly Chevy. Interior quality, etc.?

[comatus]

Mosquito Lake is where my son got that deer! Lovely spot, after the first hard frost.

[Starlite51]

as a former member of the "Youngstown Mob" ... I "retired" in 1966 ...took all the "bug" profits and moved to CA .....

I am thinking I should go back to Youngstown if Jerry Brown" returns to govern California ... (I'd even vote for Eddie DeBartolo Jr. if he's out jail yet)

then theres Mr, Trafficant ... who was buddies with the Cafaro Avanti group....

My departed grand father made fenders for Pierce Arrows and then later sold Studebakers in Salem Ohio ....just down the road from Murdertown USA....and the famous Idora Park where I ran the Kiddlieland train..