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studebaker-R2-4-me
04-13-2007, 05:55 PM
I was wondering the best way to swap the engine in my 64 GT Hawk. I will be changing the bellhousing to one that has been dialed in to the new engine block. Which will be the easiest method: remove the cross member and pull the entire Engine and transmission or block the transmission up and just pull the engine. I have heard mixed feelings on both methods.

The transmission is a powershift and I have just ordered a new flex plate for the swap.

What's my best plan of attack?

I would like to do this project just after the South Bend International meet at the end of June.:)

1964 GT Hawk soon to be R2 Clone

StudeRich
04-13-2007, 06:40 PM
Well it's your choice, but I like to have the whole assy. easily accessible on the floor to do any re-sealing engine, replacing/re-threading Exhaust Studs, re-painting, fluid drains, and fills, bolting and centering the Converter and housing, installing the trans. re-sealing the Trans. etc. nice and easily. Then after installation there is little to do on your back, under the car!

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

JDP
04-13-2007, 06:44 PM
I've never had to remove the X member to pull the drive line.

64 Commander-64 Daytona
64 GT R2 clone-63 GT R2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert-63
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

GTtim
04-13-2007, 07:14 PM
[quote]Originally posted by JDP

I've never had to remove the X member to pull the drive line.

John, I think he is talking about the small crossmember that supports the rear engine mounts. If you don't take that one out can you still get enough angle on the engine to get it out with the transmission attached?

Tim K.
'64 R2 GT Hawk

JDP
04-13-2007, 07:21 PM
Pull and install it nose high with a buddy under the car to raise the tail shaft for the last few feet gong back. N8 always tells me you can't do it, but he's been there to see it done 3-4 times.:)

64 Commander-64 Daytona
64 GT R2 clone-63 GT R2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert-63
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

studebaker-R2-4-me
04-14-2007, 03:42 PM
If N8's not under the car who is?

The consensus is pull the entire drive train and leave the rear x-member in. Adjust the engine hoist to set the front of the engine high and lift the rear of the transmission past the cross member from under the car. Is it best to remove the rear mounts totally or just remove the 4 side bolts? When I pull this drive train out is there any items that I should replace other than the old flex plate?
If so what would you recommend? My plan is to replace the transmission pan seal and a side gasket that has a slight leak. Is there any other maintanance items I should look at when I swap the 289 for my new R2? Between the engine and the tranny?

What would your recommend to remove prior the the engine pull. ex.) Remove all fuilds. Remove Transmission filler tube? Oil breather tube on R2? what else should be off?


1964 GT Hawk soon to be R2 Clone

JDP
04-14-2007, 03:54 PM
Other then the fluids, I leave the tubes mentioned on, they don't get in the way.

64 Commander-64 Daytona
64 GT R2 clone-63 GT R2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert-63
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

N8N
04-14-2007, 04:11 PM
don't forget to remove throttle linkage and oil pressure line, wiring to coil, ground strap, temp. gauge wire, etc. I think it's easier if you are doing this by yourself to completely remove the throttle bellcrank and throttle pressure linkage, it flops around and catches on stuff. I think it might be easier to remove the crossmember but it's one of those things where removing the x-member is kind of a PITA as well, so it's your call. It is near impossible to get everything out without dragging the trans. across the crossmember unless you have a helper.

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

whacker
04-14-2007, 04:46 PM
Pull the distributor!

StudeRich
04-18-2007, 07:36 PM
The most common leakers are the front pump seal and the tail seal, I always change them while it's out because if they are not leaking, they probably will be! [:0]


quote:Originally posted by studebaker-R2-4-me

Is there any other maintanance items I should look at when I swap the 289 for my new R2? Between the engine and the tranny?

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

studebaker-R2-4-me
04-18-2007, 08:57 PM
Very good point. My powershift is leaking everywhere at least there is oil everywhere. I have already purchased a pan gasket and a small side gasket part# 1541085 where there are obvious leaks but I never considered to replace the front and rear pump seals. What all is involved to replace these seals? Do I have to remove both front and rear housings to get at the front and rear pump seals? If so I would imagine I will also require a new Gasket for each housing.

Are these the part numbers for the front and rear seals along with the associated gaskets?

Front seal Part# 1540922
Front Gasket Part# 1540930
Rear Seal Part# 1553737
Rear Gasket Part# 1541087

Any other good hints?


Allen(out to stop the leaks for a couple of years)Anderson

1964 GT Hawk soon to be R2 Clone

studebaker-R2-4-me
04-21-2007, 06:31 PM
I was under the hawk last night and the rear transmission seal does not look like it is leaking but I do have a drip off the front universal joint of transmission oil is this the precursor to a real seal Leak?

1964 GT Hawk soon to be R2 Clone

GTtim
04-21-2007, 11:34 PM
quote:Originally posted by studebaker-R2-4-me

I was under the hawk last night and the rear transmission seal does not look like it is leaking but I do have a drip off the front universal joint of transmission oil is this the precursor to a real seal Leak?

1964 GT Hawk soon to be R2 Clone


Allen, I think the deal with leaking transmissions is all about quantity. I don't believe there is such a thing as a Borg-Warner transmission that doesn't leak a little here or there. The major question would be, are you reluctant to park the car in a friends driveway because it would leave too large a puddle? Then it needs fixing. Now having said that, if I were swapping the engine and not terribly, completely short on money, I would just pull the tranny and take it to a rebuilder, who for about $500 would put new seals and gaskets in it. I would also put new seals in the torque converter. Then they would be done and you could drive with some assurance that you will not have to be going under the car again in the next couple years. Consider also that you are changing to an engine of higher horsepower and those old teenage urges to 'see what she'll do' might put some extra strain on those components.

Tim K.
'64 R2 GT Hawk

studebaker-R2-4-me
11-24-2007, 04:50 PM
I'm resurrecting this old post to give an update on my Nimesh built R2 engine swap. I've managed to secure an re-built powershift transmission, HD Avanti torque converter, and new a flex plate. My plan is to start the project during my holiday Dec 14 - January 7

I going to drain all fluids, disconnect what I have too. Remove the hood and remove the rad. I am now considering restoring the engine bay and repainting the inner fenders and the firewall.

Before the new engine goes in I also plan to rebuild the power steering system which is another source of constant small leaks.

I just might have a Studebaker that does not leak for a year or two.





1964 GT Hawk soon to be R2 Clone
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o278/studebaker-r2-4-me/IMGP0115.jpg

JDP
11-24-2007, 05:23 PM
Hint, if you are cloning the car, the Avanti pump will not clear the factory frame mount on the left side and now would be a good time to make a fuel return line too.

JDP/Maryland
63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
spent to date $54664,75
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,439.30
63 Lark 2 door
52 Starliner
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)

sbca96
11-24-2007, 05:32 PM
Not gonna happen.........;)

http://rofl.wheresthebeef.co.uk/Colbert%20For%20Shame.gif

Tom


quote:Originally posted by studebaker-R2-4-me
I just might have a Studebaker that does not leak for a year or two.


'63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires

studebaker-R2-4-me
11-25-2007, 03:30 PM
[quote]Originally posted by JDP

Hint, if you are cloning the car, the Avanti pump will not clear the factory frame mount on the left side and now would be a good time to make a fuel return line too.

Last winter I installed the return line and it is sitting tie-wrapped right next to the original fuel line.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o278/studebaker-r2-4-me/IMGP0111.jpg

Lee D. mentioned to me last year that the Supercharged frame mount looks as though the factory may have heated the frame mount and bashed it with a large hammer to get the clearance needed for the R2 fuel pump. I've looked at several pictures that I had taken of Barry Leppans (Studee64) R1 Hawk and his frame mounts look no different than mine. I am still wondering where this clearance is needed.

Does anyone (or JP) have a picture of the R2 modified frame mount that clearly shows the clearance that I will need?

1964 GT Hawk soon to be R2 Clone

JDP
11-25-2007, 03:46 PM
The whole front inside edge is banged back.


http://stude.com/R2mount.jpg

JDP/Maryland
63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
spent to date $54664,75
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,439.30
63 Lark 2 door
52 Starliner
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)

studebaker-R2-4-me
11-25-2007, 04:14 PM
Here is my Frame Mount

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o278/studebaker-r2-4-me/R1FrameMount.jpg

Here is a Superhawk's Frame mount that does not appear bashed up by the factory

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o278/studebaker-r2-4-me/R2FrameMount.jpg

1964 GT Hawk soon to be R2 Clone

JDP
11-25-2007, 04:28 PM
The second picture of what you called a SuperHawk has the correct, bashed in inside edge. BTW, that looks like the car I bought from Nimish and did the body swap on. Maybe by 64, they just made them all with the corner rolled over, but the parts book still shows a unique number for the left frame mount even in 64.

JDP/Maryland
63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
spent to date $54664,75
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,439.30
63 Lark 2 door
52 Starliner
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)

studebaker-R2-4-me
11-25-2007, 04:55 PM
It appears the mount needs to be bashed in about an inch or so to the front of the mount. I put a standard fuel pump up against the R2 pump to compare the two. The R2 pump extends up to an inch past the standard pump and is significantly larger.

The front edge of my frame mount is about 4" long until it reached the depression which is there for the fuel line fitting. Should I concentrate heat to the area before the depression and bash the front edge as deep as the depression and make the front edge about 3" long.

I'm guessing here but by looking at all of the pictures, the Superhawk mount that I posted looks to have the depression of the standard mount and then that depression is extended toward the front of the mount by up to an 1 or 1.5 inches leaving the front 2.5 inches of the edge intact.

Am I on the right track here?

I was also recommended to me to set the rear end high when I pull the engine and install it. I am told this will allow the engine to be installed at a easier angle. What are your thoughts on this?

1964 GT Hawk soon to be R2 Clone

GTtim
11-25-2007, 08:25 PM
Alan, the factory blueprint called for the part to be modified to look like the one that is on your car. In practice I think they usually extended the depression more towards the inside of the car, ie looking a bit more like the second picture. On the blueprint it says that the depression/modified area is to be 2 and 13/16ths inches long. That measurement starts at 3 and 1/4 inches from the outside edge that bolts to the frame.
I had no trouble switching engines with all four wheels on the ground, but depending on the hoist/leveler combination you are using, it can be close. Personally I wouldn't bother raising the rear wheels.

Tim K.
'64 R2 GT Hawk

studebaker-R2-4-me
11-25-2007, 11:22 PM
Hey Tim, How are you? Thanks for the post. Your post makes sense to me. My stock mounts depression starts at 4" from the frame mounting bolts. You gave me the information that I needed. I have to elongate the depression about an inch toward the frame. If you look at JP picture and the Superhawk picture you can visualize the elongated depression to the right of the original depression (it's slightly lighter in rust color)Looks like the elongation is the size of a good heavy ball peen hammer head.

JP, I received that 2nd picture from Nimesh about a year ago when I was thinking about cloning my car into a Superhawk and was gathering info for the bracket for the Air cleaner.

Tom, I gonna prove you wrong on the leaky Studebaker but I love your animated post anyway. It gives me a good laugh. How did you post it?

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o278/studebaker-r2-4-me/HawkFilterCanisterbracket.jpg

1964 GT Hawk soon to be R2 Clone

JDP
11-25-2007, 11:58 PM
Just to be clear, the Nemish car was just a R2 not a package Superhawk. I saved and sold it by buying a solid parts car and moving everything over.

JDP/Maryland
63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
spent to date $54664,75
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,439.30
63 Lark 2 door
52 Starliner
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)

sbca96
11-26-2007, 12:13 PM
Its an animated Gif, the website I posted it from has tons of them. If
you right click on the picture, and list properties, you can get the
link its pulling it from.

Tom


quote:Originally posted by studebaker-R2-4-me
Tom, I gonna prove you wrong on the leaky Studebaker but I love your animated post anyway. It gives me a good laugh. How did you post it?

studebaker-R2-4-me
02-16-2008, 08:10 PM
My Progress is coming along slowly, it just seem so many things I am taking apart and prepping for this engine install. I bought a torch today to heat and bash this engine perch. Here are the results

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o278/studebaker-r2-4-me/IMGP0369.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o278/studebaker-r2-4-me/IMGP0368.jpg

Before I go nuts and paint the engine bay, have I bashed this engine perch enough to receive the clearance needed for the R2 fuel pump?

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o278/studebaker-r2-4-me/Side.jpg

1964 GT Hawk R2 Clone
Oakville, Ontario.

Hamilton Chapter
See you at Niagara 2008 Crossroads Zone Meet July 18-20

JDP
02-16-2008, 09:35 PM
Looks like it to me.

JDP/Maryland
63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
spent to date $54664,75
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Lark 2 door
57 wagon
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)

N8N
02-16-2008, 09:48 PM
Just for the record, here's the deal with the driver's side frame mount.

They're all the same part number for non-R-series cars from 55 on up. HOWEVER at some point they started having a small notch pressed in them for fuel pump clearance. The late style metal bowl fuel pump will not fit on an earlier car. (well, it will, but the outlet fitting will just barely hit the frame mount.) The r-series cars have a different part number for the mount and they have more clearance yet than the late style frame mount. so there are two part numbers but three different mounts. and yes you are doing it right, we'll have to see if you have enough clearance or not. I did the same thing to my '55 but JDP had a correct R-series frame mount for me to compare with when I modified mine (I thought briefly about using it, but it seemed just as much work to drill out those rivets as it did to heat 'n' beat the mount on the car.)

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

ROADRACELARK
02-18-2008, 05:42 PM
Back to your tranny, before you remove it (and/or the engine together) drain the pan and the convertor. Remove the dipstick tube as well. It will be in the way. While it is out of the car, wheather on the floor or on the work bench, after you've first removed the oil pan, turn the tranny upside down. Have your shop manual handy for info and reference pictures, remove the valve body and replace both the shift shaft seal and o-ring. I promise you, they're leaking.[B)] It's 10 times easier to do this on the bench than under the car working above your head.[xx(] If this looks to complicated, take GTtim's suggestion and search out a good tranny shop with a technitian familiar with older ford trannys. Hope this helps...been there...done that too many times. Remember, if it ain't leaking, it must be empty.;)

Dan Miller
Atlanta, GA

[img=left]http://static.flickr.com/57/228744729_7aff5f0118_m.jpg[/img=left]
Road Racers turn left AND right.