PDA

View Full Version : Lark won't light



bams50
08-30-2006, 10:26 PM
Put a battery in the Lark; don't have keys, so I ran a jumper to the + side of the coil, poured some gas in the carb, jumped across the solenoid, and--- nothing! :( Starter turns it over just fine, but no hint of firing... didn't check the points very closely yet, or check for spark; called it a night...

Questions:

1. What is the gap for the points?
2. The wires were disconnected from the voltage regulator; anyone know how they connect (what color where?)
3. Would the VR being disconnected prevent spark?

Thanks for your help!!

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

showbizkid
08-31-2006, 02:00 AM
I've been studying wiring diagrams a lot lately [B)]

Check out this link, it's better than the manual:

https://www.studebakerparts.com/studebakerparts/parts/html/images/60-lark-6-wire.jpg

Looks like black goes to the "B" terminal, white with black trace to the "F" terminal, and both white and black with white trace go to the "A" terminal. Hope that helps - good luck!


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

bams50
09-02-2006, 08:48 PM
Still trying to get it to start... no spark [}:)]

I decided to get all new tune-up stuff- cap, rotor, wires, points, condenser, coil...

I haven't gotten a manual for this one yet; can anyone share the gap setting for the points?

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

Dick Steinkamp
09-02-2006, 08:50 PM
quote:Originally posted by bams50

I haven't gotten a manual for this one yet; can anyone share the gap setting for the points?



What year and which engine?



http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

mbstude
09-02-2006, 09:08 PM
Put a set of points in my '59 truck today. (170 c.i. flat head 6) The gap was .020. Dwell (sp.) was 38-40, I believe.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/SDCavatargood-1.jpg

bams50
09-03-2006, 06:52 AM
OOPS-

1960 flat 6..

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

Dick Steinkamp
09-03-2006, 10:51 AM
quote:Originally posted by bams50

1960 flat 6..



Matt had it... .020 and 38-40 degrees.

plug gap is .030

firing order 1, 5, 3, 6, 2, 4

valve clearance .018 cold




http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Roscomacaw
09-03-2006, 01:12 PM
Before just throwing a bunch of parts at it, with the cap off the points, and your jumper in place, twiddle the points with a little piece of wood or some such thing that's non-conductive. If there's no sparks between the points (assuming they're closed - that's to say "off the cam" of the distributor shaft), take an emery board or a piece of fine sandpaper and run it between them. This followed by a piece of cardboard or cloth or something (this only to remove and abrasive that the sandpaper or file might have left behind) and try for sparks again. The points can develop a oxidation glaze that can effectively keep them from passing current EVEN WHEN they come into good contact with each other.
Be a shame to throw $30 bucks worth of parts at it (or more - depending on how much you'd replace)when a bit of sandpaper would have had it running!;)

Forgot to mention! With that cap off, spin the engine a bit and watch the points. Heck, I've had them come to me where the points were so grossly mis-adjusted that they didn't move with the engine turned. Maybe no sandpaper needed at all![:0]


Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

bams50
09-04-2006, 09:25 AM
Thanks, Biggs; I did try cleaning the points before I did anything... gap looked pretty close... checked all connections, including inside the coil tower- all look good...

I like to replace old-looking tune-up parts, so I know what I have for sure... the parts store was able to get everything I wanted... but here's a dumb question:

Is this car 6 or 12 volts?!? [B)]

The car had a 12V batt. in it, so I assumed it was 12V.; my 57 is 12V, right? Yet the parts store's computer shows only a 6V coil...

I don't want to damage any of the new parts; so please help me with this...

Also, for future reference, can you determine if a car's 6V or 12V just by looking?

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

mbstude
09-04-2006, 10:45 AM
All Studes were 12V starting in 1956.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/SDCavatargood-1.jpg

bams50
09-04-2006, 11:56 AM
Thanks, mb; now, is a coil that says 6V compatible with a 12V system- and if not, aren't 12V coils somewhat universal?

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

Roscomacaw
09-04-2006, 03:10 PM
I believe the coils ARE the same, but that's why 12 volt systems use a resistor.;)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

bams50
09-04-2006, 10:07 PM
So to clarify, I can just put this 6V coil on my car with no issues, or do I have to change/do something else?

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

Roscomacaw
09-04-2006, 10:27 PM
This LArk should have a pink-colored wire going to the + side of the coil. That wire is a resistor in itself. If it's still in use, I'd say you'd be OK.:)

BTW, Robert - I can appreciate the "I know what I've got" approach to just tossing everything new onto the ignition system, but checking for some sparking at the points would've gone a long way to letting you have some idea of what you were up against.

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

showbizkid
09-05-2006, 11:24 PM
Hey Bob,
Found this here:


quote:"Connect a 12V test light to the ( - ) terminal of the ignition coil.
That's the wire that goes to the distributor. Ground the clip lead of
the test light. Have a friend turn the engine over with the starter.
The test light should flash repeatedly; once for every time the points
open.

If you get no illumination at all, then either the points are never
closing, or else you are not getting 12 volts to the ( + ) side of the
coil.

If the lamp remains illuminated all the time, then the points are not
closing properly."

and...


quote:Does your car have a ballast resistor? If it does then there is a separate wire going to the coil for the starting and one for the running. Try running a wire right from the pos side of the battery to the positive side of the coil. You will bypass any wiring problems before the distributor. If the car has spark then you have a wiring problem. Disconnect the wire to shut it off because you have bypassed the key.

Suggest taking added precautions by:
Disconnect the wire that's going there (pos side of coil) first, in case there's a ground problem in the ignition. Connect to coil first, then slap-touch the wire to the battery before trying to hard-connect.


Hope there's something helpful here!


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

bams50
09-06-2006, 06:17 AM
Thanks again, Clark... will be working on it again this weekend; will keep you all updated!

Biggs, thanks again; point taken! [8D]

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

bams50
09-06-2006, 05:29 PM
OK... it has one wire going to the + side of the coil- black w/green tracer, just like the diagram Clark linked for me above (no pink wire)...

So does that mean I can't use the 6V coil the parts store sold me? I want to put the new stuff in and try to start it tonight, but don't want to damage anything...

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

starlightchamp
09-06-2006, 08:01 PM
I spent all day yesterday trying to get my 63 GT running smoothly. No soap!
When I got the car a few months ago it ran great-But I couldn't leave well enough
alone -so replaced the cap, rotor and Ign wires. Stupid-broke two rules
1, If it works don't fix it.
2. Don't change more than one thing a time.
OK, what does this mean to the question of using a 6 volt coil in a 12 volt sytem TEMPORARILY ? Explanation follows;
1. I had to relearn the ignition system eg. Infamous pink wire.
This wire has a 1.8 ohm resistance to drop the coil voltage to about 8 volts.
However, when the engine is first cranked, the starter relay sends full battery voltage
of 12+ volts to get a hotter spark for starting but only during cranking. Then the voltage is applied through the pink resistance wire (or a ballast resistor) to lower the voltage so the ponts will last longer since a little less arcing. Since the 12 volt coil works 99% +
of the time at 8 volts, a six volt coil should survive awhile in a 12 volt car . For trouble shooting you should be OK, but best to replace as soon as possible.

1950 Champion Starlight
1963 Hawk GT
Santa Barbara
CA

bams50
09-07-2006, 06:29 AM
Thanks, Star; but again, mine has NO PINK WIRE...

I'm still trying to get the difference between the 6V and 12V coils; and whether they interchange; and if not, if any 12V coil will work?

Thanks, all for your help- and patience!

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

Roscomacaw
09-07-2006, 01:02 PM
OK - ya made me look!:( And I was wrong - again!:( BUT, I want to explain myself. It's been 21 years since I worked with a 60 Lark 6[8)] I know that's no excuse, but I'm so used to dealing with the V8s that I wasn't aware there was a difference in the wiring for that year 6.:(
Green & black wire is all you should have on (most) '60 sixes. There ARE resistor 12V coils and NON-resistor 12V coils used in 1960. Resistor coils used on V8s had that pink wire - the pink wire, in essence, being the resistor. I tried to apply this to your 6, when, in reality, isn't there.[}:)] '60 sixes had only a green & black wire and used a resistorless 12V coil. This means - NO - you can't use that 6V coil. Not for long anyway. It would likely fry way before it's time.
You COULD add a resistor (Stude did this to it's Y1, 6cyl cars mid-year in 1960. Why? Who knows!) and bring that green & black wire to the resistor and then a wire from the other end of the resistor to the + side of the coil. To add a START circuit like resistor-fitted cars have, run a wire from the "I" terminal of the starter solenoid to the + side of the coil. This gives the coil a shot of straight 12volts when cranking and momentarily bypasses the resistor.
IF your Lark's original starter solenoid doesn't HAVE an "I" terminal on it, I'd bet you could just wire it to the big terminal that hooks to the starter motor. This would effectively do the same thing.:)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS