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Ron Dame
08-30-2006, 07:13 PM
As the commercial says, "life comes at you fast". I've been awful busy this year, and ignoring my poor old '63 Champ.

I've driven it little, because I was having a steering issue...sometimes steering was terribly heavy and stiff, other times just "normally" heavy, but not stiff.

My first though is that the cab has settled, and was putting the steering shaft in a bind, and I still think that might be the case. Especially since there is some sort of rubber shim on the driver's front mount that is rotted and falling off! Interstingly, the mounting bolts are still tight, suggesting that there is no settling, and a floor jack under the floor produced no difference in the space between the frame and the floor of the cab. I found no problematic rust or cracks either.

Anyway for those of you familiar with both the T cab AND the truck parts catalog, please turn your "Hymnal" to page 420, Plate 21-6, Body Hold Down Bolts, second verse "Cab Symbol - T": It's not right, is it? At least it's not like my truck! All the hardware labeled for the front mount is drawn connecting to the engine mount of the frame, and the rear cab hardware to the front mounts....correct? I hope so, because otherwise I have even more problems than I thought! Also, is it correct that only the right front cab mount gets 21043-70 (PN 653832) Rubber Mount? Why only one side?

Basically, before I adjust the steering box and shaft to eliminate the binding, I need to make sure the cab is mounted right and not moving. Any help is appreciated.

Thanks, and see some of you in Asheville in September!

Ron Dame



Ron Dame
'63 Champ

Kdancy
08-30-2006, 08:26 PM
Ron, I'm not in front of my T-cab parts book right now but I remember several pics of the mounting areas not being right. Does sound like you need to check the cab mounts and put new rubber pads in place and check for cracks, common with the T-cab. I am re-mounting the cab and front clip and it has about whipped me trying to get the body seams lined up and the hood in the proper position.

Transtar60
08-30-2006, 09:32 PM
The parts book illustration is wrong. It must have been drawn on a Monday or after a long lunch with adult beverages.

5E13
7E7
8E7
8E12
8E28
4E2
59 Lark
etc

Ron Dame
08-31-2006, 08:05 AM
Thanks Charlie and Kerry. I was pretty sure the T cab was never offered as a cab forward!

Now the question I meant to ask but didn't, is: Are the mounting parts shown correctly, even if to the wrong place on the frame? Does only the right side get the rubber spacer?

Thanks again!

Ron

Ron Dame
'63 Champ

Kdancy
08-31-2006, 06:23 PM
I got mine (T-cab) in a parts pile.
The rear of the cab has two rubber bushings that bolts go down thru the cross member. Their is a rubber pad that the cab sets on -not very thick.
The front of the cab has two mounting points that go down to arms coming off the frame (one on each side)these areas are prone to crack and need to be reinforced I think) , these are shimmed to line up the front fender gaps. Before putting the front clip on, the hood should be hung first -- mine is all screwed up, when I get the fender gaps right, the hood doesn't "set" like it should. I'm almost ready to put a granade under it! In order for the gaps (bottom) to look right, I had to shim the cab up so much until I am almost touching the steering column with the cowl hole. (can't adjust the front of the front clip down anymore)
I am going to loosen the steering box bolts and see if I can get some upward rotation and kick the column upwards.

Alan
08-31-2006, 06:25 PM
On my 63 8E5-112 the drivers side has a hard rubber spacer with tire sidewalls on either side of it. On the pass. side there is a stack of tire sidewalls more than 3/4" thick.

Roscomacaw
08-31-2006, 11:52 PM
I've noted the parts book boo-boo long ago. In fact, the goof was perpetuated from the 2R parts book, right thru to the 8E series! Even more amusing is that I asked the fella who oversaw the editing of these books and he just chuckled. He said: "A few mistakes got by us!"

The C & T cabs had rather solid mounting points on the Left front of the cab as well as the left rear (yes, it looks like this one gets a big rubber spacer just like the right rear one - but notice the extra metal spacer that fits inside the rubber one!). Then on the opposing mounts, there were generous spacers of fairly giving rubber. The reason for this was to let the frame flex without tearing apart the rather rigid cab structure. If there hadn't been some "give" engineered in, there'd have been some eventual tearing out around the cab's anchor points![xx(]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

studeclunker
09-01-2006, 02:14 AM
My '62 started to sag in the front due to rust as well. I added two wood blocks under the unused body mounts located on the bottom of the firewall. This solved the problem. The cab doesn't flex around as much and the sag was eliminated. They were tied into place with 3/8ths inch bolts. I left enough play so that they could move a little without sliding out of place. Mine even had holes on the frame in the right place to do this. I believe someone else mentioned it on this forum as I'm not brilliant enough to think of this on my own.

Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith

62champ
09-01-2006, 11:16 AM
quote:Originally posted by studeclunker

My '62 started to sag in the front due to rust as well. I added two wood blocks under the unused body mounts located on the bottom of the firewall. This solved the problem. The cab doesn't flex around as much and the sag was eliminated. They were tied into place with 3/8ths inch bolts. I left enough play so that they could move a little without sliding out of place. Mine even had holes on the frame in the right place to do this. I believe someone else mentioned it on this forum as I'm not brilliant enough to think of this on my own.

Ron Smith


I believe those mounting points were used on the cars. I seem to remember someone stating that the factory did not use them because of the flexing on the trucks. They said the mounts close together in the back and far apart in the front tended to spread the flexing out.

When my uncle restored the truck below - he used the same mounting points because the front one in the floor boards were in pretty bad shape. Those on the firewall were in great shape so he made some mounts and I think they are still in good shape 10 years later.
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/7E7-11-2002.jpg
I would think if you were not going to be hauling really heavy loads in the truck, these mounts would work just fine. You might want to use some rubber so when it does flex it can give some. Of course - I could be wrong (and I hope if I am someone will point that out...)

1960 Lark VI - finally turned 50k in August of 2006

JDP
09-01-2006, 11:25 AM
As I recall, Paul Johnson totaled his T cab because of cab rust. The cab sagged enough to cause the steering shaft to break since it was acting as a prop for the cab to frame.

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Transtar60
09-01-2006, 12:23 PM
I thought the steering failed on Paul's truck because the friction weld of the shaft to the worm gear broke???

5E13
7E7
8E7
8E12
8E28
4E2
59 Lark
etc

Roscomacaw
09-01-2006, 12:35 PM
Charlie, it WOULD break at that point if the column and shaft were holding the cab up! [xx(]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Ron Dame
09-01-2006, 05:01 PM
Well rust is not the issue with this one ( beleive it or not!) and I've not found cracks here or on the firewall ( '63, suspended pedal).
I still suspect teh cab is moving, since the steering is sometimes fine ( by T-cab standards) and sometimes stiff and heavy, as though it's binding. Tomorrow I'll really have a good look and make sure I didn't overlook any cracks and replace the rubber, thn adjust teh steering box and column.

Thanks!

Ron Dame
'63 Champ

Alan
09-02-2006, 03:16 PM
Ron, At the front beside the radiator there is a L-bracket that holds the idler lever w/bushing PN. 1696568. On mine I had the same problem of hard at times steering and traced it to that part, there is a nut that is self locking and if someone tightens it up too tight or it is not lubed properly. The bolt should have some grease and also the face that goes inside to the bracket.

Ron Dame
09-04-2006, 02:20 PM
Well, two days later than I planned I had a look at what is going on...the bushing and idler are OK, but when I had jane twist teh steering wheel while I looked, the not-so-old reach rod end at the steering knuckle almost popped off!

The cab is not moving right now, but the rubber shim on the driver's side is shot, so it goes on the fix-it list too.





quote:Originally posted by Alan

Ron, At the front beside the radiator there is a L-bracket that holds the idler lever w/bushing PN. 1696568. On mine I had the same problem of hard at times steering and traced it to that part, there is a nut that is self locking and if someone tightens it up too tight or it is not lubed properly. The bolt should have some grease and also the face that goes inside to the bracket.


Ron Dame
'63 Champ