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Mr Mike
04-01-2007, 06:34 AM
Hi All,
Just trying to fill in one of my many knowledge blanks. How many different V8 block castings were there?
Thanks,
Mr Mike

whacker
04-01-2007, 09:29 AM
Well, the quick answer is one. There is really only one basic Studebaker engine V8 engine block, not counting the one Packard block used in 1956 (it was a Packard), and not counting the GM McKinnon used in 1965-66 (it was a GM). However, in the V8 Studebaker block there are three variations, and when you add in the different cranks and heads, there are a lot of actual engines built on this block. The first generation V8 was the 232ci of 1951-1954. The second one was the enlarged bore with smaller lifters version used from 1955 to 1962 (224, 259, 289ci). This version used the same block, but it had smaller lifters and bigger bores, moved the fuel pump to the timing cover, different distributor, other variations. The last iteration of the same basic block was the "full flow" of 1963-1964, this was the same block as the other two, but it was drilled for oiling through an add-on oil filter in the lower right corner. This is the block that made the Avanti R1-R2-R3-R4. Many people prefer the full flow for the oiling improvement, but the earlier blocks are supposed to have tighter tolerances.

Stude4x4
04-01-2007, 10:41 AM
Agree with ya whacker. I was told that the 224 had smaller valves than the 259 & 289. I looked in the book and the book shows the same part number for the valves used on all engines. Anybody know? Thanks.

Jake

-Home of John Studebaker-
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StudeRich
04-01-2007, 11:29 AM
Jake; someone just got confused between the 232 and 224, No 224's do NOT have smaller valves, it is the same engine as a '55 259 with a short stroke! [^] The valves are all the same '55-'64 including Avanti, they just used the Stelite tipped ones, and of course R3 & 4 had bigger ones.



StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

Mike Van Veghten
04-01-2007, 11:45 AM
Hmmmm..

Not counting the "little" blocks, two...partial flow and full flow versions. I believe these were the only casting changes in the 259/289 series blocks.
These may have also included interior (water jacket) changes between the partial and full flow around the cylinders since the right side of most full flow blocks have slightly different cylinder wall thickness's than the left side.

Of course there may have been casting alterations to the few blocks that were used for the Indy engines, but of course....we wouldn't see those on the street!

Mike

Roscomacaw
04-01-2007, 02:12 PM
I think I agree with Mike here[:0];). I would've said partial flow and full flow. But beyond the accomodation of the full-flo oil filtration, the block's pretty much the same, back to the first ones made.:D

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Aspalen
04-01-2007, 05:47 PM
And they change style of water plug in 1962. One was rusted out when I started up my Avanti 2 weeks ago after winter storage, and of course, the spare ones I had was the wrong style. I order the deeper style water plug and today I replace it. Tomorrow I will fill it up with water and anti freeze and burn some rubber.
Lennart...

JDP
04-01-2007, 07:41 PM
There were several casting changes.

The 232 had a hole for the fuel pump push rod and other minor differences, the the later partial flow block, then the full flow.Oil return to the pan was also improved on the latest blocks because of the Avanti engines.

64 Commander-64 Daytona
64 GT R2 clone-63 GT R2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert-63
63 Lark 2 door
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT-60Hawk
59 3E truck
52 & 53 Starliner
51 Commander

DEEPNHOCK
04-01-2007, 08:36 PM
Hey!
What about the small displacement V8 block Studebaker cast up?;)
Jeff[8D]
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/Jeff%20Rice%20Studebaker%20Pictures/enginebloc1.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/Jeff%20Rice%20Studebaker%20Pictures/enginebloc3.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/Jeff%20Rice%20Studebaker%20Pictures/enginebloc2.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/Jeff%20Rice%20Studebaker%20Pictures/enginebloc4.jpg



quote:Originally posted by whacker

Well, the quick answer is one. There is really only one basic Studebaker engine V8 engine block, not counting the one Packard block used in 1956 (it was a Packard), and not counting the GM McKinnon used in 1965-66 (it was a GM). However, in the V8 Studebaker block there are three variations, and when you add in the different cranks and heads, there are a lot of actual engines built on this block. The first generation V8 was the 232ci of 1951-1954. The second one was the enlarged bore with smaller lifters version used from 1955 to 1962 (224, 259, 289ci). This version used the same block, but it had smaller lifters and bigger bores, moved the fuel pump to the timing cover, different distributor, other variations. The last iteration of the same basic block was the "full flow" of 1963-1964, this was the same block as the other two, but it was drilled for oiling through an add-on oil filter in the lower right corner. This is the block that made the Avanti R1-R2-R3-R4. Many people prefer the full flow for the oiling improvement, but the earlier blocks are supposed to have tighter tolerances.

DEEPNHOCK
04-01-2007, 08:44 PM
And it's a darned good thing that he didn't ask about the Studebaker V10 and V12 engine program....[:0]
(But we know what day today is, don't we;))
Jeff[8D]

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DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
Brooklet, Georgia
'37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
'37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
'61 Hawk (project)
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Roscomacaw
04-01-2007, 09:16 PM
Sunday???[8]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Randy_G
04-01-2007, 09:31 PM
Man if you could only photoshop my Lark into doing the repairs themselves. Maybe moorph it into a 56 Golden Hawk while your at it. :)

Randy_G
South Bend or Bust 2007!
God I miss chrome on cars.
www.AutomotiveHistoryOnline.com
http://www.automotivehistoryonline.com/sedan4small.jpg

Mr Mike
04-02-2007, 05:55 AM
Thanks for the info and comments guys!
I find it rather amazing that, in their first V8, they designed a block that would allow an increase in CID of almost one third with only a few minor changes! It would seem design prowess was not limited to Mr. Loewy.

Hindsight is 20/20 but I sometimes wonder what might have happened if the money Studebaker spent on diversification had been reinvested in the company?

Mr Mike