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Jeff T.
03-28-2007, 10:02 PM
Another odd though while trying to find time to work on my Lark.

We all know about the head cracks caused by the design of the OHV 6 head and other factors... is there anything that can be done with a cracked head? Can a shop install different valve seats or weld up the cracks to make the part servicable. I do wonder because I have a couple of ohv 6 heads, one with cracks and the other with a slightly chewed valve seat when I dropped a valve years ago.

Since I doubt that anyone will redesign the head and machine a new part out of a block of metal we just have to make do.

Jeff T.

"I'm getting nowhere as fast as I can"
The Replacements.

StudeRich
03-28-2007, 11:45 PM
There are welders that specialize in cast iron welding, it requires a very hot oven to pre-heat the iron, I understand since I have never done it or seen it done.

The valve seat should not be a problem either, the seats can be undercut for hard unleaded seats to be installed to repair the damaged seat.

A good machine shop should be able to make it better than new, if you do not have such a place where you live, just drive to a larger town.

These OHV 6's can be very dependable engines once you understand not to over-rev or overheat them! [^] They got a bad rap because of people NOT understanding them. I still prefer V-8's, but would no longer through them out of my garage either!:D Now a '59 or '60 Lark flathead 6 on the other hand... [}:)]

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

studeclunker
03-29-2007, 12:57 AM
There's a fella with an ad in TW looking for sixes with serial numbers S293480 and over. Why would'nt someone want an earlier SN? In my case, it doesn't matter as mine is S229354, and is a '62. Were there problems (more than usual) before S293480?

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/december%2006/HPIM0234.jpg http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/56%20Parkview%20Wagon/56wagonleftfrontclipped-1.jpg
Home of the famous Mr. Ed!
Lotsa Larks!
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Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

John Kirchhoff
03-29-2007, 10:04 AM
Welding cracks in heads is very common in the ag community but guys to do it are kind of far and few between. For people in the Midwest, there are (or at least until a couple of years ago) two in Chapin, Illinois. I've had several heads welded up there and they do excellent work. In fact, I saw an engine block that did have a 6 inch hole in the side from a busted rod. They'd patched it, painted it and there were no external signs anything had ever happened. The work patch sounds too cheap and shoddy to be used to describe their work though. Kind of pricey but for ag applications, a $300 repair is better than a $500 salvage or $900 new head.

By the way, they heat the heads up red hot, weld just a bit, back into the oven to get it red again and the process is repeated until it's repaired. The reason cold welding doesn't work is because carbon in the cast iron will migrate toward the hot weld, causing it to be very brittle and crack. That's why cold welding exhaust manifolds results in weld after weld until you have something resembling a shingled roof.

8E45E
03-29-2007, 01:11 PM
[quote]Originally posted by studeclunker

There's a fella with an ad in TW looking for sixes with serial numbers S293480 and over. Why would'nt someone want an earlier SN? In my case, it doesn't matter as mine is S229354, and is a '62. Were there problems (more than usual) before S293480?

We had a member here who insisted the earlier OHV heads were better than the newer ones as the only 'fix' was to add more metal. I've only owned one Stude with the OHV 6, which I bought from the original owner who put just over 100,000 miles when he sold it to me. He was very meticulous with maintenance, and was a rather laid-back driver so the engine was never really 'worked' hard. About the only 'bad' thing the engine did after 100K miles was smoke a little out the tailpipe. It was a VERY plain Green Jade '61 Lark Deluxe; the only options on it was the 'appearance kit' with consisted of stainless steel around the front and back window, and one he bought a few months later at his wife's insistence: a RH sunvisor:D

Craig.

John Kirchhoff
03-29-2007, 03:44 PM
The wife demanded a sun visor? The audacity of her!!!!

8E45E
03-29-2007, 04:42 PM
quote:Originally posted by John Kirchhoff

The wife demanded a sun visor? The audacity of her!!!!


I think he got off lucky!! In the 20 years he owned the car, that was ALL she asked for!:D

Craig

jpvill4th
03-31-2007, 01:23 AM
The "iron" used in Studebaker engines and heads was actually an alloy composed of 30% steel and had a particularly high nickel content. I have had flathead six exhaust manifolds arc welded hot but not red hot using a nickel rod. The manifolds never cracked in service after being repaired. I see no reason why the heads could not be repaired. I think improved cooling helps to prevent cracked heads too - fan shroud and better radiator - radiator modified to make it a two pass or three pass.

John Kirchhoff
03-31-2007, 03:47 PM
jpvill4th is correct that if you absolutly must weld cast iron cold, nickle rod is the safest bet since it's lower melting point reduces (but doesn't stop) carbon migration. It seems Stude owners have an advantage when dealing with cracked manifolds but don't believe for a second that nickle rod will prevent re-cracking on every manifold that comes along. I have a Perkins manifold that was the receipent of the previous owner's nickle welding. And again and again and right now it is cracked again right along side the last nickle beads. I don't know if it's true, but people with more welding experience than me have said the more hot-cold cycles a manifold has gone through, the more likely it is to crack again. Makes sense to me!

tirebiter4659
03-31-2007, 06:31 PM
My 1954 Attastude pickup has the dinky six and really accelrrates with most traffic,,, the cluctch/engine seem sluggish pulling the first 10' from a stop (I think my clutch is pooping out). I have just noticed a coolant leek below the rear freez plug next to the oil intake toob, Im'ma going to try a can of block coolant leek fixr (waste of time?) as I think the can of main bearing oil leek fixr werked like a charm...


http://img.clubphoto.com/jerboa/116591555/512/null/image.jpg

bams50
03-31-2007, 06:33 PM
quote:Originally posted by StudeRich

Now a '59 or '60 Lark flathead 6 on the other hand... [}:)]

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA


What's wrong with the flathead 6? Not agreeing or disagreeing; I know NOTHING about them! Just would be very interested in hearing what specifically is wrong with them (aside from the obvious lack of power)?

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

Dwain G.
03-31-2007, 06:47 PM
[quote]Originally posted by studeclunker

There's a fella with an ad in TW looking for sixes with serial numbers S293480 and over. Why would'nt someone want an earlier SN? In my case, it doesn't matter as mine is S229354, and is a '62. Were there problems (more than usual) before S293480?
_________________________________________
Supposedly the crankshafts after that engine are counterbalanced better. He's talking about building a salt car, and he's supposed to come over and get some stuff from me.



http://home.comcast.net/~jdwain/63.63.jpg
Dwain G.

StudeRich
03-31-2007, 10:49 PM
Ahh! I just knew someone would catch that little pun in there about those late 170 Flatheads, most likely an owner!! [:0]

Well I am sure you will find SOMEBODY who is happy with one, but I grew up with Studebakers and just know the trouble free ones from the not-so! You think the OHV 6 had problems, it was nothing as bad as the disastrous Flathead Lark! No-one Dad sold one of the those '59-'60 Lark sixes to, was ever happy with them. If it wasn't charging circuit electrical fires, it was carburetor troubles, or blown pistons or rods. The factory had many model changes of Carbs. service bulletins, fix kits etc. for those Carter (Usually good) Carbs. and nothing really worked.
But I know this really says nothing about the basic engine itself, you can use a 1962 Carb. to fix driveability problems.

It seems that when they used the (new in '55) large crank and bearing 185 cu.in. Champion engine to make back into a 170 again, it never came close to being as good as the old original '47-'54 170 engine. (Out of balance?)
I don't think anyone really knows why, but it just isn't a strong running, dependable engine, not even close to as dependable as it's big brother the 259 V-8 which is nearly indestructible! [^]


quote:Originally posted by bams50

What's wrong with the Flathead 6? Not agreeing or disagreeing; I know NOTHING about them! Just would be very interested in hearing what specifically is wrong with them (aside from the obvious lack of power)?


StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

53k
04-01-2007, 09:30 AM
quote:Originally posted by Jeff T.

Another odd though while trying to find time to work on my Lark.
We all know about the head cracks caused by the design of the OHV 6 head and other factors... is there anything that can be done with a cracked head? Can a shop install different valve seats or weld up the cracks to make the part servicable. I do wonder because I have a couple of ohv 6 heads, one with cracks and the other with a slightly chewed valve seat when I dropped a valve years ago.
Since I doubt that anyone will redesign the head and machine a new part out of a block of metal we just have to make do.

In my humble opinion the ohv six has had a bad rap. I bought a '61 convertible years ago that had quit running for the previous owner. It sounded like a timing gear to me (and it was). However, in cranking, it was obvious that there were at least several bad valves. I pulled the head and took it to a local long-time machine shop. When I walked in the guy said "hey! I haven't seen a Studebaker head in a long while." It did have several cracks around the exhaust valves. The machine shop didn't consider that a problem at all. They simply installed new seats and planed the head for true and all was fine. Incidentally, that car was fairly peppy for a convertible w/automatic and it was extremely smooth running. It had 110,000 miles on it and you couldn't feel a ring groove in the cylinders.


[img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/R-4.JPG[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/64L.JPG[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/64P.jpg[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/53K.jpg[/img=right]Paul Johnson
'53 Commander Starliner (since 1966)
'64 Daytona Wagonaire (original owner)
'64 Daytona Convertible (2006)
Museum R-4 engine