Flanged axles : new vs. NOS

[Jeff T.]

I had an odd thought when I scanned the SASCO ad in the April Turning wheels. I saw that SASCO is running a special on NOS flanged axles this month and I wondered what about the merits of retrofiting flanged axles into a tapered 44 axle - NOS flanged axles from 65-66 vs. the Fairborn newly manufactured axles, aside from the obvious age of the NOS units.

Jeff T.

"I'm getting nowhere as fast as I can"
The Replacements.

[N8N]

I don't think the old style flanged axles will fit into a tapered axle housing, only one that came with flanged axles from the factory. If it were that easy I bet they'd have sold out years ago :/

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight

http://members.cox.net/njnagel

[sbca96]

Yah ... unless you have a flanged axle housing, those axles will do
you no good. The flanged axle is usually held in the housing with C
clips, where as the tapered axle is held in at the backing plate. The
Fairborn kit is based on the setup developed for Ted Harbits Chicken
Hawk drag car, and converts a tapered housing to flanged using a new
bearing assembly that bolts to the backing plate area.

I remember reading a post a while back that gave specifics.

Tom

'63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: 97 Z28 T-56 6-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires

[gordr]

quote:Originally posted by sbca96

Yah ... unless you have a flanged axle housing, those axles will do
you no good. The flanged axle is usually held in the housing with C
clips, where as the tapered axle is held in at the backing plate. The
Fairborn kit is based on the setup developed for Ted Harbits Chicken
Hawk drag car, and converts a tapered housing to flanged using a new
bearing assembly that bolts to the backing plate area.

I remember reading a post a while back that gave specifics.

Tom

'63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: 97 Z28 T-56 6-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires

Tom, no C-clips on Stude flanged axles. That's a Chevy design. The axles are retained by the bearings, not unlike a Ford axle. IIRC, they do use a tapered roller bearing, with a spanner nut to effect the endplay adjustment. It's been a long time since I worked on one, although I think I have a pair of flanged axles for the 27 in the barn.

I'm not sure if the housing is different, but I think the spline count on the inner end IS.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

[sbca96]

I stand corrected on the C-clips[B)] (thats why I used "usually" I wasnt
sure about Stude - always had tapered Studes!).

I do remember the housings being different, or something was different
enough that they can not be used. Ted could explain I am sure.

Tom

[wagone]

Anyone have any GOOD thoughts or numbers on how often or how common the old tapered shafts fail (i.e., twist as in metal failure)? And does the failure usually occur at the point of attachemnt of the hub or in the bearing area? That is, is it a bearing related failure or one caused by shear in the area of taper where the hub attaches?

wagone and the OLD R2 Avanti

[Alan]

The only one I had fail was right at the inside end of the keyway right at the end of the key.

[Karl]

Have never broke one. But have twisted a couple..On both cars 63 &64.Big tires on one,Nitrous on the other..
But I tend to abuse them a little.LOL

63 Twin Supercharged Avanti
64 Avanti R3w/NOS
88LSC Avanti 350 Supercharged w/NOS

[sbca96]

Unfortunately no one has bothered to document how often or how these
fail, is you do a search, as soon as its mentioned its discounted as
if to cover it up. It DOES happen, I had one break on my 60 Hawk, I
was just going around a corner at 5-10 mph the whole drivers side tire
and drum assembly came off the car and dragged on the backing plate
for what seemed like an eternity. This was around 1987. The tend to
break at the end of the keyway, not at the bearing.

BTW, on a single master cylinder car, you completely lose your brakes.

Tom

[acolds]

I had both axles fail on 1961 hawk with 4 speed at different times. i don't think it was real common because when I went to junk yard to get replacements no problem. Not always the case with a parts that were in demand not just Studebaker. The car was only 2 to 3 years old then. I have to admit to being young and dumb back then the car was pushed but not beat I was paying for it. My Hawk is black, 4 speed, TT, power steering, rear antenna, tach, clock, reclining seats, and head rests. Since purchased in 1963 I addeed rear sway bar, super charger and Golden Hawk hood scope.

[Rosstude]

I rebuilt the flanged 44 in the 66 Waginaire. The flanged units have 27 splines, vers 19 on others. The bearing and outer seals #'s are different as well. Not sure about the bearing OD. I had some trouble finding the 27 spline spider gears in the diff localy, but SASCO had them.

[img=left]http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g27/Rosstude/OldWorld2005002.jpg[/img=left]
Ross.
Riverside, Ca.
1957 Provincial X2
1958 Transtar

[wagone]

Yeah....the only reason I might be inclined to think they might break in the area of the bearing would be if the bearing was run dry and things got hot and the shaft metallurgy changed thus weakening the shaft in this area. I replaced the bearings and seals on my Avanti last fall (missed Omaha because I was held up on the seals--was sold, I believe, the wrong seals by a well known Stude supplier) and ever since I wish I had gone the extra mile and bought the new style flanged axles. In retrospect, I don't think changing the shafts would have been any more work than I ran into--what with the seal problem I had and no machine shop around here had a clue as to pressing the new bearings on. Anyway thanks for the thoughts on where the tapered shafts break--maybe I won't worry as much as I had been. My real concern is that a shaft would break when say shifting into second gear at about 5,500 revs and going back on the gas. Or at seventy-five miles an hour. Talk about having to find a laundry for your shorts real quick--but then that would likely be the mortician's worry. NOT funny....and not intended to be! As far as finding people to work on these cars (as in machine shops, etc.) I'm not at all sure that I have enough expertise as is required to work on these old beasts and I sure can't find anyone else who has what is needed.

wagone and the old R2 Avanti

[sbca96]

You bring up a good point. I have toyed with the idea of cutting my
time at work back (so I still have medical coverage) and opening up a
Studebaker repair shop. I know that like you mention, finding someone
that knows anything about these cars is increasingly difficult. Many
things are the same as the other brands of the day, but some shops are
very reluctant to touch a Stude for fear of parts availability and a
few other reasons.

Tom

[Jessie J.]

There are previous threads on this subject in the archives.
Back in the late '60s when I drove Studebaker's daily, I experienced axle shaft breakage on two different cars, both times it really did a job on the rear quarter panels when the tire exited the wheel well, in each case they snapped off flush with the drum, and the exposed metal surface had a crystalline or sandblasted appearance, in each case I simply swapped in another complete rear end. (only around $50 back then) As I recall it was the body repairs that really caused my $$$ pain.
I haven't had much confidence in those tapered axles since then, I was very pleased to see Ted and Fairborn come up with their flanged axle conversion, and it would be the first change that I would make on any Stude rear intended for daily use or for racing, as having an axle break at the -wrong- time can be downright terrifying! and if the experience doesn't scare you, the cost of body-work now days will!
Consider it cheap insurance.