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**65cruiser** · 03-27-2007, 01:53 AM

Anything can be done. Bill Cathcart makes a LOT of speed stuff for the flathead sixes--those can be hopped up nicely. As for me, I'd pop a Studebaker V8 in that particular car. No fabrication needed.

________________________
Mark Anderson
1965 Cruiser

http://home.alltel.net/anderm

**Dan Ward** · 03-27-2007, 02:21 AM

NEW DRIVE TRAIN

I'M THINKING ABOUT A NEW ENGINE & TRANS FOR MY NEW 57 HAWK. MOST PEOPLE SEEM TO GO FOR A 350 CHEVY CRATE ENGINE AND TRANS BUT A NEWER MORE MODERN 6 CYL SHOULD GET BETTER GAS MILAGE---LIKE MAYBE THE 230 CID THAT CHEVY USED. OF COURSE THE 350 MAKES FOR A PUNCHIER CAR AND THEY ARE PLENTIFUL AND FAIRLY CHEAP TO BUY. HAS ANYONE PUT A NEWER MOTOR IN THEIR CAR? WHICH TRANS WILL MATCH THE 350 CHEVY ENGINE? AND FINALLY, HOW MUCH TROUBLE IS IT TO GET IN--LIKE DO YOU HAVE TO MAKE NEW MOTOR MOUNTS ( I RUN MY OWN MACHINE SHOP SO I CAN DO THIS)? I MAY JUST KEEP THE 6 CYL FLATHEAD BUT I WANTED SOME INPUT FROM EVERYONE. AS ALWAYS--THANKS ---DAN WARD

**Dick Steinkamp** · 03-27-2007, 07:04 AM

If you've never done a swap before, you would be biting off a pretty big project. They aren't easy. They should be completely thought through ahead of time with a detailed plan. Finding stuff that won't fit half way through and starting over once mounts, etc. are welded in is no fun

. The 350 chevy/trans combo is relatively inexpensive compared to a rebuilt Stude V8 and trans, but the cost is more than off set by parts, fabrication, and headaches of doing a transplant.

You do have to invent and fabricate motor mounts, transmission mounts, throttle linkage, shift linkage (clutch linkage if a stick), exhaust system, cooling, drive shaft, etc. etc. None of these items are "made" for a swap. They all have to be invented and all have fit problems that have to be solved simultaneously or they will interfere with each other.

I've done my '54 (same body as yours) and can help you avoid some of the pitfalls, but again, it's not a slam dunk at all. Don't try it unless you have some solid mechanical experience and are ready for the headaches and expense.

You need to decide WHY you are considering this. If it's for better fuel economy, I don't think you can do better than the Champion 6 (especially if you have the overdrive transmission)...unless you put a Toyota in there [xx(].

If it's for a "punchier car", consider some easily obtained hot rod parts for your current motor OR slip in a good used Stude V8 and trans. '57 Hawks came with V8's so the switch over is pretty easy.

If it was me, I'd just drive it

. All cars are a compromise. You've got a great looking, rare car that will turn heads where ever it goes. Why try to get Prius fuel economy AND Ferrari performance too? You can always decide to do that later.

**Dick Steinkamp** · 03-27-2007, 07:04 AM

If you've never done a swap before, you would be biting off a pretty big project. They aren't easy. They should be completely thought through ahead of time with a detailed plan. Finding stuff that won't fit half way through and starting over once mounts, etc. are welded in is no fun

. The 350 chevy/trans combo is relatively inexpensive compared to a rebuilt Stude V8 and trans, but the cost is more than off set by parts, fabrication, and headaches of doing a transplant.

You do have to invent and fabricate motor mounts, transmission mounts, throttle linkage, shift linkage (clutch linkage if a stick), exhaust system, cooling, drive shaft, etc. etc. None of these items are "made" for a swap. They all have to be invented and all have fit problems that have to be solved simultaneously or they will interfere with each other.

I've done my '54 (same body as yours) and can help you avoid some of the pitfalls, but again, it's not a slam dunk at all. Don't try it unless you have some solid mechanical experience and are ready for the headaches and expense.

You need to decide WHY you are considering this. If it's for better fuel economy, I don't think you can do better than the Champion 6 (especially if you have the overdrive transmission)...unless you put a Toyota in there [xx(].

If it's for a "punchier car", consider some easily obtained hot rod parts for your current motor OR slip in a good used Stude V8 and trans. '57 Hawks came with V8's so the switch over is pretty easy.

If it was me, I'd just drive it

. All cars are a compromise. You've got a great looking, rare car that will turn heads where ever it goes. Why try to get Prius fuel economy AND Ferrari performance too? You can always decide to do that later.

**Roscomacaw** · 03-27-2007, 07:21 AM

Dan, there's basically two camps of thought on this. One: Keep it stock (or at least, keep it "Studebaker") and Two: drop in alternate power because....____________________. Fill in the blank.[:I]

The first and foremost argument for alternative motive power has been for a crate SBC. Why? "Because it makes power and it's relatively cheap" - out of the box(crate). Of course, there's other stuff used, from 454s to V6s and even diesels! Once you've decided to go that route, no one will question too much, what you've chosen to use.[8D]

Outside of the Stude world, it's almost - no, not "almost" - it IS a given that if you're driving a Stude, you must have put an SBC or some such thing under the hood because those "old, boat-anchor, weird and unreliable and incredibly expensive" Stude engines all died and went to Studebaker Valhalla eons ago.[xx(] This is the presumption of the unknowing OR the "knowing" of the "hot rod - cusstom world". And BTW - I'm treading on hallowed ground in saying all this. I fully expect to be "put in my place" right soon. You'll see!

The thing about going with a Stude powerplant is that you're truly gonna be different. Kinda like Stude's old sales slogan: Different by Design! It really befuddles those outside of the Studebaker world that you have the audacity and obviously the "secret codes" to keep something as weird as a Studebaker motor ticking along![}

]
Thing is, Studebaker DID farm out alot of what they used to build their vehicles - all the major (and minor) automakers did. Brakes from Wagner, rear axles from Dana, transmissions from Borg-Warner and even engines in the case of Kaiser-Frazer and other lesser makes. But Studebaker made their OWN engines IN HOUSE. And that engine is as much a part of the Studebaker legacy as is the fins on your Hawk! But - this paragraph is just MY silly, personal crusade. Much more intelligent sorts have arguments for the "modern age".

Of course, we are constantly drubbed with the reasoning that ANY Stude on the road is "good for the cause". Well, how CAN one argue with that? Today's world is ALL ABOUT appearances - not content. And if it's all about perception, then who cares what's at the heart of it? Heck - a virtual Studebaker will be every bit as significant as a real one. After all, such will be keeping the marque alive and recognized and that's all that really matters.

There are a number of NICE alternate-powered Studes out there. Some are owned by good friends of mine. They understand my argument and I have come to accept theirs. Most of us get along. The one thing that has to be considered is that every one of us is different. We're not "production line" output like our Studes once were. Since our personal blueprints were tossed once we were constructed, we can be forgiven for having a different view of the same world we all share. That said, I feel free to express MY slant on this subject and others feel free (and justified) to present THEIR slant on it. I trust they will.[^]
Like it or not - every one of us is a historian of sorts. What we pass on will have an impact on how our times and doings will be remembered. Kinda like native Indian lore passes their history from one generation to the next. When we CHANGE something - make no mistake about it - it will be percieved as being done so as an "improvement". It's only logical to assume so since it's not in our nature to purposely step backwards.[}

]
You can read all the books you want about Studebakers and yet NOTHING will leave a more lasting impression on you about them than when you're confronted with a living, breathing example of one.[:0]The nuances of such encounters are ours to contrive.

TECHNICALLY - Stude flat 6 OR V8 - the car will take either one with ease. After all, one was designed for the other. With anything brand X, you're (for the most part) on your own. T'ain't to say it can't be done - it's that it has to. And it IS done on a regular basis. And done well at that!

The Stude V8 is STILL proving itself to be one BRUTE of an

**Roscomacaw** · 03-27-2007, 07:21 AM

Dan, there's basically two camps of thought on this. One: Keep it stock (or at least, keep it "Studebaker") and Two: drop in alternate power because....____________________. Fill in the blank.[:I]

The first and foremost argument for alternative motive power has been for a crate SBC. Why? "Because it makes power and it's relatively cheap" - out of the box(crate). Of course, there's other stuff used, from 454s to V6s and even diesels! Once you've decided to go that route, no one will question too much, what you've chosen to use.[8D]

Outside of the Stude world, it's almost - no, not "almost" - it IS a given that if you're driving a Stude, you must have put an SBC or some such thing under the hood because those "old, boat-anchor, weird and unreliable and incredibly expensive" Stude engines all died and went to Studebaker Valhalla eons ago.[xx(] This is the presumption of the unknowing OR the "knowing" of the "hot rod - cusstom world". And BTW - I'm treading on hallowed ground in saying all this. I fully expect to be "put in my place" right soon. You'll see!

The thing about going with a Stude powerplant is that you're truly gonna be different. Kinda like Stude's old sales slogan: Different by Design! It really befuddles those outside of the Studebaker world that you have the audacity and obviously the "secret codes" to keep something as weird as a Studebaker motor ticking along![}

]
Thing is, Studebaker DID farm out alot of what they used to build their vehicles - all the major (and minor) automakers did. Brakes from Wagner, rear axles from Dana, transmissions from Borg-Warner and even engines in the case of Kaiser-Frazer and other lesser makes. But Studebaker made their OWN engines IN HOUSE. And that engine is as much a part of the Studebaker legacy as is the fins on your Hawk! But - this paragraph is just MY silly, personal crusade. Much more intelligent sorts have arguments for the "modern age".

Of course, we are constantly drubbed with the reasoning that ANY Stude on the road is "good for the cause". Well, how CAN one argue with that? Today's world is ALL ABOUT appearances - not content. And if it's all about perception, then who cares what's at the heart of it? Heck - a virtual Studebaker will be every bit as significant as a real one. After all, such will be keeping the marque alive and recognized and that's all that really matters.

There are a number of NICE alternate-powered Studes out there. Some are owned by good friends of mine. They understand my argument and I have come to accept theirs. Most of us get along. The one thing that has to be considered is that every one of us is different. We're not "production line" output like our Studes once were. Since our personal blueprints were tossed once we were constructed, we can be forgiven for having a different view of the same world we all share. That said, I feel free to express MY slant on this subject and others feel free (and justified) to present THEIR slant on it. I trust they will.[^]
Like it or not - every one of us is a historian of sorts. What we pass on will have an impact on how our times and doings will be remembered. Kinda like native Indian lore passes their history from one generation to the next. When we CHANGE something - make no mistake about it - it will be percieved as being done so as an "improvement". It's only logical to assume so since it's not in our nature to purposely step backwards.[}

]
You can read all the books you want about Studebakers and yet NOTHING will leave a more lasting impression on you about them than when you're confronted with a living, breathing example of one.[:0]The nuances of such encounters are ours to contrive.

TECHNICALLY - Stude flat 6 OR V8 - the car will take either one with ease. After all, one was designed for the other. With anything brand X, you're (for the most part) on your own. T'ain't to say it can't be done - it's that it has to. And it IS done on a regular basis. And done well at that!

The Stude V8 is STILL proving itself to be one BRUTE of an

**Dick Steinkamp** · 03-27-2007, 07:41 AM

quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs
I fully expect to be "put in my place" right soon. You'll see!

It would take about 6 of us to put you in ANY place, Biggs [:0] [}

]

**Dick Steinkamp** · 03-27-2007, 07:41 AM

quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs
I fully expect to be "put in my place" right soon. You'll see!

It would take about 6 of us to put you in ANY place, Biggs [:0] [}

]

**41 Frank** · 03-27-2007, 08:08 AM

I am not volunteering to be one of those putting Biggs in his place cause I agree with most all of what he said also. An example of Stude power putting smiles on peoples faces, streetrodders included ,is the 41 Champion I own. The fact that it is not run of the mill makes it unique attested to by the crowds hanging around it even at cruise nights in the Phoenix area where some of the best rods in the country show up. But Stude power or SBC power eiher way is good.

quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs
I fully expect to be "put in my place" right soon. You'll see!

It would take about 6 of us to put you in ANY place, Biggs [:0] [}

]

**41 Frank** · 03-27-2007, 08:08 AM

I am not volunteering to be one of those putting Biggs in his place cause I agree with most all of what he said also. An example of Stude power putting smiles on peoples faces, streetrodders included ,is the 41 Champion I own. The fact that it is not run of the mill makes it unique attested to by the crowds hanging around it even at cruise nights in the Phoenix area where some of the best rods in the country show up. But Stude power or SBC power eiher way is good.

quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs
I fully expect to be "put in my place" right soon. You'll see!

It would take about 6 of us to put you in ANY place, Biggs [:0] [}

]

**N8N** · 03-27-2007, 08:25 AM

Nobody has pointed out one other thing the Studebaker V-8 has going for it... the unique sound. I guess it must be the siamesed center exhaust ports or something, but a Stude V-8 with dual exhaust sounds like just about nothing else on the road, much more aggressive sounding than a Chevy or Ford engine. Try it, you might like it...

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight

http://members.cox.net/njnagel

**N8N** · 03-27-2007, 08:25 AM

Nobody has pointed out one other thing the Studebaker V-8 has going for it... the unique sound. I guess it must be the siamesed center exhaust ports or something, but a Stude V-8 with dual exhaust sounds like just about nothing else on the road, much more aggressive sounding than a Chevy or Ford engine. Try it, you might like it...

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight

http://members.cox.net/njnagel

**DEEPNHOCK** · 03-27-2007, 11:10 AM

You are just reading the wrong magazines Dan
Somebody send Dan some hi-po Turning Wheels issues!
Jeff[8D]

quote:Originally posted by DWard

I'M THINKING ABOUT A NEW ENGINE & TRANS FOR MY NEW 57 HAWK. MOST PEOPLE SEEM TO GO FOR A 350 CHEVY CRATE ENGINE AND TRANS BUT A NEWER MORE MODERN 6 CYL SHOULD GET BETTER GAS MILAGE---LIKE MAYBE THE 230 CID THAT CHEVY USED. OF COURSE THE 350 MAKES FOR A PUNCHIER CAR AND THEY ARE PLENTIFUL AND FAIRLY CHEAP TO BUY. HAS ANYONE PUT A NEWER MOTOR IN THEIR CAR? WHICH TRANS WILL MATCH THE 350 CHEVY ENGINE? AND FINALLY, HOW MUCH TROUBLE IS IT TO GET IN--LIKE DO YOU HAVE TO MAKE NEW MOTOR MOUNTS ( I RUN MY OWN MACHINE SHOP SO I CAN DO THIS)? I MAY JUST KEEP THE 6 CYL FLATHEAD BUT I WANTED SOME INPUT FROM EVERYONE. AS ALWAYS--THANKS ---DAN WARD

DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
Brooklet, Georgia
'37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
'37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
'61 Hawk (project)
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

**DEEPNHOCK** · 03-27-2007, 11:10 AM

You are just reading the wrong magazines Dan
Somebody send Dan some hi-po Turning Wheels issues!
Jeff[8D]

quote:Originally posted by DWard

I'M THINKING ABOUT A NEW ENGINE & TRANS FOR MY NEW 57 HAWK. MOST PEOPLE SEEM TO GO FOR A 350 CHEVY CRATE ENGINE AND TRANS BUT A NEWER MORE MODERN 6 CYL SHOULD GET BETTER GAS MILAGE---LIKE MAYBE THE 230 CID THAT CHEVY USED. OF COURSE THE 350 MAKES FOR A PUNCHIER CAR AND THEY ARE PLENTIFUL AND FAIRLY CHEAP TO BUY. HAS ANYONE PUT A NEWER MOTOR IN THEIR CAR? WHICH TRANS WILL MATCH THE 350 CHEVY ENGINE? AND FINALLY, HOW MUCH TROUBLE IS IT TO GET IN--LIKE DO YOU HAVE TO MAKE NEW MOTOR MOUNTS ( I RUN MY OWN MACHINE SHOP SO I CAN DO THIS)? I MAY JUST KEEP THE 6 CYL FLATHEAD BUT I WANTED SOME INPUT FROM EVERYONE. AS ALWAYS--THANKS ---DAN WARD

DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
Brooklet, Georgia
'37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
'37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
'61 Hawk (project)
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

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