PDA

View Full Version : While we're on the subject of decoding VIN's...



MagikDraggin
03-26-2007, 08:40 PM
Amongst all the other things I am involved with on my recently acquired '62 Hawk, I decided to check out the engine and VIN numbers.

The motor has PC3496 stamped on it, while on the door jamb, is 62V81575.

So what does this mean?.....that the Hawk was built in South Bend, but the motor is Canadian? I bought the car from a gentleman in Ontario, who supposedly got it from British Columbia.

I take it that this must mean that it is not a "numbers matching" vehicle? Does this present a problem with authenticity if I were ever to consider selling it?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/MagikDraggin/Other%20Stuff/IM000987-reduced.jpg
1962 GT Hawk 4sp

Tom B
03-26-2007, 08:45 PM
The 'numbers matching' madness has not reached the Studebaker fraternity. The serial No. says it is a 62 V8 car. not sure of the PC3496, don't worry about future value, just enjoy it.

[img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Bothcars.jpg[/img=left]
Tom Bredehoft
'53 Commander Coupe
'60 Lark VI
'05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
All three Indiana built OD cars

Dick Steinkamp
03-26-2007, 09:14 PM
If the car was built in Ontario, it would have a C after the V in the door jamb serial number.

The engine in my Canadian '63 GT (63VC2416) is PC3642. It was built on Feb 13, 1963. Your Canadian 289 could be a '63 model year engine. I'll bet it's a full flow.

As Tom says, don't sweat the numbers matching thing. If you really want to know what motor was installed when the car was built, when it was built, and how it was equipped, get the build sheet from the museum.





http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

MagikDraggin
03-26-2007, 10:36 PM
quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

If the car was built in Ontario, it would have a C after the V in the door jamb serial number.
So it's obvious it was indeed built in South Bend, as there is no "C" in the VIN#.


quote:The engine in my Canadian '63 GT (63VC2416) is PC3642. It was built on Feb 13, 1963. Your Canadian 289 could be a '63 model year engine. I'll bet it's a full flow.
And that it is, as it has a spin-on filter 'down below'. Interesting, though.....to the best of your knowledge, are the Canadian specs for this motor the same as the stateside specs?....that is, my shop manual is good, regardless of where the motor came from?


quote:As Tom says, don't sweat the numbers matching thing. If you really want to know what motor was installed when the car was built, when it was built, and how it was equipped, get the build sheet from the museum.
And just how would I go about doing this?

Karl







http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/MagikDraggin/Other%20Stuff/IM000987-reduced.jpg
1962 GT Hawk 4sp

JDP
03-26-2007, 10:36 PM
The number matching thing has arrived already. I just bought another R2 GT Hawk that is a clone that just had the R2 installed in the 70's for about a third of the price of a factory R2. To me, the matching numbers aren't worth the other 16K. :)

64 Commander 2 dr.
64 GT Hawk R2 clone
64 Daytona HT
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

Dick Steinkamp
03-26-2007, 11:04 PM
quote:Originally posted by MagikDraggin
to the best of your knowledge, are the Canadian specs for this motor the same as the stateside specs?....that is, my shop manual is good, regardless of where the motor came from?

Yes...in fact, I believe ALL Stude motors were made in South Bend, even if the car was assembled in Canada.


quote:
And just how would I go about doing this?

Go here...

http://www.studebakermuseum.org/

click on "shop"

click on "production orders" under "collectibles"

(not exactly intuitive [V], but it will get you there.

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Dwain G.
03-26-2007, 11:59 PM
I believe this engine was built for Canadian use. Starting number for a 1963 Canadian 289 is PC 3401.
If you study the new date code numbering system adopted by Studebaker for the '64 model year, there could not have been a PC 3496.
There is no mechanical difference between US and Canada engines.

http://home.comcast.net/~jdwain/63.63.jpg
Dwain G.

61rat
03-27-2007, 01:50 PM
quote:
Yes...in fact, I believe ALL Stude motors were made in South Bend, even if the car was assembled in Canada.



not true. the guys at Sasco told me my truck is a South Bend make vehicle, w/ a Canadian made motor. (i live in SB so i just took it up there and they looked at it).

Roscomacaw
03-27-2007, 05:24 PM
61rat - can't be. No Stude engines were ever MADE in Canada! Excepting, of course, the GM/McKinnon motors used in the 65-66 cars.

You MIGHT have a Stude truck that someone transplanted a Stude motor serialized for Canadian production. That's the case with Majik's motor. Somehow that motor found it's way south of the border after the car it started life in was assembled in Hamilton.;)

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

8E45E
03-28-2007, 03:58 PM
quote:Originally posted by MagikDraggin

[quote]Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

If the car was built in Ontario, it would have a C after the V in the door jamb serial number.
So it's obvious it was indeed built in South Bend, as there is no "C" in the VIN#.


Are your side air intake surrounds CHROME? Or PAINTED body color?
The most visual clue if a '62 G.T. Hawk was made in Hamilton are the air intake surrounds will be chromed.

Craig

MagikDraggin
03-28-2007, 09:43 PM
quote:Originally posted by 8E45E


quote:Originally posted by MagikDraggin

[quote]Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

If the car was built in Ontario, it would have a C after the V in the door jamb serial number.
So it's obvious it was indeed built in South Bend, as there is no "C" in the VIN#.


Are your side air intake surrounds CHROME? Or PAINTED body color?
The most visual clue if a '62 G.T. Hawk was made in Hamilton are the air intake surrounds will be chromed.

Craig



Really? Now I AM cornfused! Yes, the side air intakes (either side of the big open-faced grill), are indeed chromed.

However, as was mentioned, there is no letter "C" in the VIN code. But there is a "C" on the motor ID.

I guess it's not really all that important, but I was kinda curious. If it really gets to bugging me, I'll just have to fork out the bucks and get the line order from the museum.

Karl

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/MagikDraggin/Other%20Stuff/IM000987-reduced.jpg
1962 GT Hawk 4sp

Roscomacaw
03-29-2007, 02:14 PM
Karl, the car's 45 years old - and you've been in custody of it - how long? Little things like those Chrome side grilles were availble NOS for YEARS after Stude closed down. In fact, they STILL show up on ebay from time to time as do the painted ones. It would've been easy, maybe even logical if the circumstances were all known, for this thing to get chrome ones thru it's history. One gets pranged and the owner has a chance at getting a pair of chromed one vs. looking for one painted type and then making it match the color of the car. I know what I'D opt for!;)


Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

MagikDraggin
03-29-2007, 06:27 PM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

Sorry Karl.[:I] I didn't MEAN to sound harsh - it's just my nature, I guess.

Chorus, chorus???



Oh no, no, no, Mr Biggs, I wasn't thinking that at all. Rather, it was obvious my feeble attempt at some cyber-humor, which got lost in the translation.

It's just that I am humbled by the realization of just how little I know about these particular vehicles. And as a result, I know I am going to say and ask some pretty silly things here, until I start catching on.

And even then, I will still probably uncork a real doozie on occasion. It's in MY nature to do so, heh, heh, heh.:)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/MagikDraggin/Other%20Stuff/IM000987-reduced.jpg
1962 GT Hawk 4sp

MagikDraggin
03-29-2007, 06:35 PM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

Karl, the car's 45 years old - and you've been in custody of it - how long? Little things like those Chrome side grilles were availble NOS for YEARS after Stude closed down. In fact, they STILL show up on ebay from time to time as do the painted ones. It would've been easy, maybe even logical if the circumstances were all known, for this thing to get chrome ones thru it's history. One gets pranged and the owner has a chance at getting a pair of chromed one vs. looking for one painted type and then making it match the color of the car. I know what I'D opt for!;)


Yes sensei, be patient with this grasshopper as he learns the ways of the Studebaker. In the meantime, feel free to see me and some of my goofier comments as the "comic relief" for the forum, heh, heh, heh.

I will know that I have "matured" when the time comes that someone asks a question and I know the answer to it.:D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/MagikDraggin/Other%20Stuff/IM000987-reduced.jpg
1962 GT Hawk 4sp

Roscomacaw
03-29-2007, 07:00 PM
Sorry Karl.[:I] I didn't MEAN to sound harsh - it's just my nature, I guess.

Chorus, chorus???

One thing that you and the other fella with the "60" Hawk will have dawn on you eventually is that the Hawks were basically facelifted '53 generation C & K body cars. Facelifted yet so minorly that lots of stuff will swap across the years! Even from 53 to 64! This has led to lotsa custom C-K cars coming to pass. Some intentionally, and some without intent.;) At that, there's a dizzying array of minor details from one year to the next that would take some serious studying on to become "expert" at.
I don't even PRETEND to try and keep it all straight. And JUST when we've come to a consensus on a particular point, someone throws what sometimes proves to be a stick in the spokes of what it was we JUST came to agreement on. Such is the nature of these beasts from South Bend.
Someone else here will remember better than me but it seems I recall a recent hashing out of knob color in a certain year GT. I didn't keep track because I don't anticipate ever owning one. But it went on and on. Pictures and parts dug up/out to try and come to a solid conclusion.[^]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe