RICH 48 CHAMPION

[CHAMP]

48 Champion gets about 15 mpg and turns spark plugs black after 2 or 3 mile road test. I have replaced coil, spark wires twice first set were noise suppresion wires, the second set were wire centers, two new caps and rotors, spark plugs from j-6, j-8, and j11 gapped at several settinds from .025 to .032 and several other settings between. Car has electric fuel pump and I recently installed a fuel pressure regulator and I have had it set from 1/2 to 5 pounds and everywhere in between. I rebuilt the carb. and then went back thru it three times, still rich. bought two used carbs and one rebuilt carb. Still rich. Installed Petronix equiped reconditioned dist. from Bill Cathcart still rich. Bought a fourth carb. from Bill Cathcart still rich. Engine has about 4000 miles on rebuld and has about 105 pounds of compression on all 6 cld. I checked fuel pressure with a gauge and I can put the pressure just about anywhere I want between 1 and 5 pounds with fuel reg. but it don't seem to make much difference. It does have a new fuel filter. Car does not have a manual fuel pump, just the electric pump. Air filter is not dirty or clogged I have had two different air filters on it and even ran it with no air filter still rich. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Exhaust is not restricted in any way. Thanks Champ

GARY H 48 CHAMPION 2DR. SEDAN

[studegary]

You sure have tried all of the logical things. Are you sure that the plugs are black from fuel and not from oil? How old is the fuel that you are running? Try fuel that is less than three months old (life of current fuels unless you add StaBil, or something like it).

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY
1954 Commander Starliner (restomod)
1959 DeLuxe pickup (restomod)

[gordr]

quote:Originally posted by CHAMP

48 Champion gets about 15 mpg and turns spark plugs black after 2 or 3 mile road test. I have replaced coil, spark wires twice first set were noise suppresion wires, the second set were wire centers, two new caps and rotors, spark plugs from j-6, j-8, and j11 gapped at several settinds from .025 to .032 and several other settings between. Car has electric fuel pump and I recently installed a fuel pressure regulator and I have had it set from 1/2 to 5 pounds and everywhere in between. I rebuilt the carb. and then went back thru it three times, still rich. bought two used carbs and one rebuilt carb. Still rich. Installed Petronix equiped reconditioned dist. from Bill Cathcart still rich. Bought a fourth carb. from Bill Cathcart still rich. Engine has about 4000 miles on rebuld and has about 105 pounds of compression on all 6 cld. I checked fuel pressure with a gauge and I can put the pressure just about anywhere I want between 1 and 5 pounds with fuel reg. but it don't seem to make much difference. It does have a new fuel filter. Car does not have a manual fuel pump, just the electric pump. Air filter is not dirty or clogged I have had two different air filters on it and even ran it with no air filter still rich. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Exhaust is not restricted in any way. Thanks Champ

GARY H 48 CHAMPION 2DR. SEDAN

I'd want to get a vacuum gage on it and see what kind of vacuum that engine is pulling. My guess is maybe the valve timing is late, and it's not pulling enough vacuum to pull down the economizer valve piston. Compression sounds a little low, too, which could be a vlve timing issue.

No amount of playing with the ignition system will help if the engine can't make enough vacuum to run properly.

In any case, get a vacuum gage on it. If it reads normally, say 16 - 18" at idle, your problem lies elsewhere.

When you rebuilt the carbs, did you use the factory float valve setting? Modern fuel is less dense, and you must set the float about 1/16" lower, so it closes the needle with the same level of fuel in the bowl as is specified. But I'd do a vacuum reading first.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

[CHAMP]

Gas is less than a week since filled. Pulls sixteen inches of vacuem at idle. I pulled the spark plugs hooked one plug to plug wire and grouded spark plug case ( metal part). Spark was weak and more of an orange color rather than blue. I'm thinking that just because the coil is fairly new doesn't meen it couldn't be weak or possably not the correct coil. If anybody has any other suggestions I would be glad to hear them. I guess tomorrow I'l check with FLAPS and see what I can find out about the coil. Thanks Again! Champ

GARY H 48 CHAMPION 2DR. SEDAN

[Alan]

16 inches of vacuum is a little weak for that engine. I would play with the timing to see if I could get more. Still sounds like the spark is lazzy, but the coil will put out only what it needs to get to ground and a rich mix will help the juice get to ground.

[CHAMP]

Sixteen inches vac. at idle may be on the low side of norm but I wouldn't call it weak and I don't think it would cause my problem. As far as rich mixture I think I can cross that out after two used carbs. and two rebult carbs. The last rebuild being a profesonal rebuild from BILL Cathcart! I'm leaning toward the igntion coil right now. I forgot to mention that it is breaking up some from mid RPM range and up. Thanks again everybody I'm sure with your help the problem will be found and fixed! BTW one of those used carbs. was supposed to be NOS and it looked like it could be, anyway I'll have a nice stock of used and rebuilt carbs when I get done! Champ

GARY H 48 CHAMPION 2DR. SEDAN

[Guest]

Gary you might consider getting a 'Flame Thrower' Pertronix coil to go with the set-up. They're about $40.

[CHAMP]

I asked BILL Cathcart about that coil last week and he said it wasn't avaible for my 6 volt positive ground. Champ

GARY H 48 CHAMPION 2DR. SEDAN

[CHAMP]

I put another new coil on today and hooked a spark plug up and it looked like I had a stronger spark. Road test proved to be no better. Car still ran rough and after road test another set of new spark plugs are black. The plugs look black from gas not oil. I have no idea what to do next. Help!!!!!! Champ

GARY H 2DR.SEDAN 48 STUDEBAKER CHAMPION NORTHEAST MD.

[N8N]

Gary,

does the car have an automatic choke? if so is it opening soon and fully? If it's a manual choke, it's worth double checking the adjustment of the cable. Also try running it without the air cleaner; if your air cleaner is all gummed up and restrictive that could make it run rich at idle. Will drive you nuts if you're setting the idle mix with the air cleaner off. I'd clean it WELL (soak it in strong solvent) let it dry thoroughly and then reoil and reinstall if it runs better without it.

good luck,

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop

http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

[CHAMP]

Thanks Nate I will do that first thing tomorrow. Gary

GARY H 2DR.SEDAN 48 STUDEBAKER CHAMPION NORTHEAST MD.

[Roscomacaw]

Gary, what's the compression on all 6 cylinders look like?[?]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

[CHAMP]

MR. BIGGS, The compression is around 105, any help would be apreciated I'm about to pull what little bit of hair I have out!!!!!! GARY H

GARY H 2DR.SEDAN 48 STUDEBAKER CHAMPION NORTHEAST MD.

[CHAMP]

Thanks Nate, This morning I pulled the air filter off and wired the choke open. Road test and car ran great! Came home and pulled a spark plug and it was clean. Choke was set right but whatever holds choke open is not doing so. When car would reach 1500 to 2000 RPM the choke is pulled shut thus causing rich condition. Thanks again for everybodys input!!!! You are the best!!!!!!!!! GARY H

GARY H 2DR.SEDAN 48 STUDEBAKER CHAMPION NORTHEAST MD.

[Roscomacaw]

Great news! Bet your mileage will improve drastically too![]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS