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CHAMP
07-08-2006, 08:58 PM
48 Champion gets about 15 mpg and turns spark plugs black after 2 or 3 mile road test. I have replaced coil, spark wires twice first set were noise suppresion wires, the second set were wire centers, two new caps and rotors, spark plugs from j-6, j-8, and j11 gapped at several settinds from .025 to .032 and several other settings between. Car has electric fuel pump and I recently installed a fuel pressure regulator and I have had it set from 1/2 to 5 pounds and everywhere in between. I rebuilt the carb. and then went back thru it three times, still rich. bought two used carbs and one rebuilt carb. Still rich. Installed Petronix equiped reconditioned dist. from Bill Cathcart still rich. Bought a fourth carb. from Bill Cathcart still rich. Engine has about 4000 miles on rebuld and has about 105 pounds of compression on all 6 cld. I checked fuel pressure with a gauge and I can put the pressure just about anywhere I want between 1 and 5 pounds with fuel reg. but it don't seem to make much difference. It does have a new fuel filter. Car does not have a manual fuel pump, just the electric pump. Air filter is not dirty or clogged I have had two different air filters on it and even ran it with no air filter still rich. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Exhaust is not restricted in any way. Thanks Champ

GARY H 48 CHAMPION 2DR. SEDAN

studegary
07-08-2006, 10:01 PM
You sure have tried all of the logical things. Are you sure that the plugs are black from fuel and not from oil? How old is the fuel that you are running? Try fuel that is less than three months old (life of current fuels unless you add StaBil, or something like it).

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY
1954 Commander Starliner (restomod)
1959 DeLuxe pickup (restomod)

gordr
07-09-2006, 12:23 AM
quote:Originally posted by CHAMP

48 Champion gets about 15 mpg and turns spark plugs black after 2 or 3 mile road test. I have replaced coil, spark wires twice first set were noise suppresion wires, the second set were wire centers, two new caps and rotors, spark plugs from j-6, j-8, and j11 gapped at several settinds from .025 to .032 and several other settings between. Car has electric fuel pump and I recently installed a fuel pressure regulator and I have had it set from 1/2 to 5 pounds and everywhere in between. I rebuilt the carb. and then went back thru it three times, still rich. bought two used carbs and one rebuilt carb. Still rich. Installed Petronix equiped reconditioned dist. from Bill Cathcart still rich. Bought a fourth carb. from Bill Cathcart still rich. Engine has about 4000 miles on rebuld and has about 105 pounds of compression on all 6 cld. I checked fuel pressure with a gauge and I can put the pressure just about anywhere I want between 1 and 5 pounds with fuel reg. but it don't seem to make much difference. It does have a new fuel filter. Car does not have a manual fuel pump, just the electric pump. Air filter is not dirty or clogged I have had two different air filters on it and even ran it with no air filter still rich. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Exhaust is not restricted in any way. Thanks Champ

GARY H 48 CHAMPION 2DR. SEDAN


I'd want to get a vacuum gage on it and see what kind of vacuum that engine is pulling. My guess is maybe the valve timing is late, and it's not pulling enough vacuum to pull down the economizer valve piston. Compression sounds a little low, too, which could be a vlve timing issue.

No amount of playing with the ignition system will help if the engine can't make enough vacuum to run properly.

In any case, get a vacuum gage on it. If it reads normally, say 16 - 18" at idle, your problem lies elsewhere.

When you rebuilt the carbs, did you use the factory float valve setting? Modern fuel is less dense, and you must set the float about 1/16" lower, so it closes the needle with the same level of fuel in the bowl as is specified. But I'd do a vacuum reading first.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

CHAMP
07-09-2006, 11:24 AM
Gas is less than a week since filled. Pulls sixteen inches of vacuem at idle. I pulled the spark plugs hooked one plug to plug wire and grouded spark plug case ( metal part). Spark was weak and more of an orange color rather than blue. I'm thinking that just because the coil is fairly new doesn't meen it couldn't be weak or possably not the correct coil. If anybody has any other suggestions I would be glad to hear them. I guess tomorrow I'l check with FLAPS and see what I can find out about the coil. Thanks Again! Champ

GARY H 48 CHAMPION 2DR. SEDAN

Alan
07-09-2006, 12:12 PM
16 inches of vacuum is a little weak for that engine. I would play with the timing to see if I could get more. Still sounds like the spark is lazzy, but the coil will put out only what it needs to get to ground and a rich mix will help the juice get to ground.

CHAMP
07-09-2006, 01:51 PM
Sixteen inches vac. at idle may be on the low side of norm but I wouldn't call it weak and I don't think it would cause my problem. As far as rich mixture I think I can cross that out after two used carbs. and two rebult carbs. The last rebuild being a profesonal rebuild from BILL Cathcart! I'm leaning toward the igntion coil right now. I forgot to mention that it is breaking up some from mid RPM range and up. Thanks again everybody I'm sure with your help the problem will be found and fixed! BTW one of those used carbs. was supposed to be NOS and it looked like it could be, anyway I'll have a nice stock of used and rebuilt carbs when I get done! Champ:)

GARY H 48 CHAMPION 2DR. SEDAN

tomnoller
07-09-2006, 08:30 PM
Gary you might consider getting a 'Flame Thrower' Pertronix coil to go with the set-up. They're about $40.

CHAMP
07-09-2006, 08:52 PM
I asked BILL Cathcart about that coil last week and he said it wasn't avaible for my 6 volt positive ground. Champ

GARY H 48 CHAMPION 2DR. SEDAN

CHAMP
07-10-2006, 05:23 PM
I put another new coil on today and hooked a spark plug up and it looked like I had a stronger spark. Road test proved to be no better. Car still ran rough and after road test another set of new spark plugs are black. The plugs look black from gas not oil. I have no idea what to do next. Help!!!!!! Champ:(

GARY H 2DR.SEDAN 48 STUDEBAKER CHAMPION NORTHEAST MD.

N8N
07-10-2006, 06:35 PM
Gary,

does the car have an automatic choke? if so is it opening soon and fully? If it's a manual choke, it's worth double checking the adjustment of the cable. Also try running it without the air cleaner; if your air cleaner is all gummed up and restrictive that could make it run rich at idle. Will drive you nuts if you're setting the idle mix with the air cleaner off. I'd clean it WELL (soak it in strong solvent) let it dry thoroughly and then reoil and reinstall if it runs better without it.

good luck,

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

CHAMP
07-10-2006, 08:20 PM
Thanks Nate I will do that first thing tomorrow. Gary:)

GARY H 2DR.SEDAN 48 STUDEBAKER CHAMPION NORTHEAST MD.

Roscomacaw
07-10-2006, 08:55 PM
Gary, what's the compression on all 6 cylinders look like?[?]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

CHAMP
07-11-2006, 08:50 AM
MR. BIGGS, The compression is around 105, any help would be apreciated I'm about to pull what little bit of hair I have out!!!!!! GARY H :(

GARY H 2DR.SEDAN 48 STUDEBAKER CHAMPION NORTHEAST MD.

CHAMP
07-11-2006, 12:44 PM
:D:DThanks Nate, This morning I pulled the air filter off and wired the choke open. Road test and car ran great! Came home and pulled a spark plug and it was clean. Choke was set right but whatever holds choke open is not doing so. When car would reach 1500 to 2000 RPM the choke is pulled shut thus causing rich condition. Thanks again for everybodys input!!!! You are the best!!!!!!!!! GARY H

GARY H 2DR.SEDAN 48 STUDEBAKER CHAMPION NORTHEAST MD.

Roscomacaw
07-11-2006, 12:52 PM
Great news! Bet your mileage will improve drastically too![:p]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

CHAMP
07-11-2006, 01:02 PM
Yes Sir Mr. Biggs, that gas mileage was a killer at todays price. I can't thank everbody enough!!!!! I LOVE MY STUDRBAKER AGAIN!!!!!!!!!! Got to close for now I'm going for a ride in my STUDEBAKER! Gary H :D

GARY H 2DR.SEDAN 48 STUDEBAKER CHAMPION NORTHEAST MD.

Guido
07-11-2006, 05:28 PM
quote:GARY H 2DR.SEDAN 48 STUDEBAKER CHAMPION NORTHEAST MD.


Gary,

Years agoI would have told you to go "downtown" and have a bite to eat at Harold's. I knew a fair number of guys up your way, Harold Demond, John D. Spence, Joe Russell, etc.

Gary

Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

1946 M-16 fire truck
1948 M-16 grain truck
1949 2R16A grain truck
1949 2R17A fire truck
1955 E-38 grain truck
1957 3E-40 flatbed
1961 6E-28 grain truck
1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck
1962 7E-7 Champ pickup
1962 GT Hawk 4 speed
1964 Avanti R2 4 speed
1964 Cruiser
And various other "treasures"
Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond & Louisa, Va.

CHAMP
07-11-2006, 06:10 PM
Guido, I know Joe Russel, better known as Joe Boy. You might remember Willard Haven. He's into Chevelles right now. Got a real nice 69. Gary:)

GARY H 2DR.SEDAN 48 STUDEBAKER CHAMPION NORTHEAST MD.

N8N
07-11-2006, 10:48 PM
Glad to hear your car is running better now! Now hopefully someone with some 40's Champion experience will chime in and help you with your choke issue, I am not certain I even know exactly what your carb looks like.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

CHAMP
07-13-2006, 01:51 PM
One more question about rich 48 champion. It still wants to run rich with air cleaner on. The stock one has a metal mesh for a filter and I also tried a 4 inch one and it was rich also. I bought an oil bath off e/bay and hopefuly it will be here tomorrow. My question is does anyone know if the oil bath air filters are less restrictive than the wire mesh air filters? BTW The wire mesh filter is clean. :)

GARY H 2DR.SEDAN 48 STUDEBAKER CHAMPION NORTHEAST MD.

studegary
07-13-2006, 04:41 PM
quote:Originally posted by CHAMP

One more question about rich 48 champion. It still wants to run rich with air cleaner on. The stock one has a metal mesh for a filter and I also tried a 4 inch one and it was rich also. I bought an oil bath off e/bay and hopefuly it will be here tomorrow. My question is does anyone know if the oil bath air filters are less restrictive than the wire mesh air filters? BTW The wire mesh filter is clean. :)

GARY H 2DR.SEDAN 48 STUDEBAKER CHAMPION NORTHEAST MD.


They should both be about the same if they are the proper model/size for the engine and are serviced properly. For example, some people put too much oil in an oil bath unit and really block air flow and others use a mesh filter that is physically too small for the engine.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY
1954 Commander Starliner (restomod)
1959 DeLuxe pickup (restomod)

Guido
07-13-2006, 05:29 PM
quote:Originally posted by CHAMP

Guido, I know Joe Russel, better known as Joe Boy.

Gary,

What is Joe up to these days? Last I heard (probably 10 years ago) he had sold the hardware store but still had the Sonoco station and the parts house. Nest time you run into him tell him to "go deep". Should bring back some memories of us hunting together in Farmville, Va.

Gary

Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

1946 M-16 fire truck
1948 M-16 grain truck
1949 2R16A grain truck
1949 2R17A fire truck
1955 E-38 grain truck
1957 3E-40 flatbed
1961 6E-28 grain truck
1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck
1962 7E-7 Champ pickup
1962 GT Hawk 4 speed
1964 Avanti R2 4 speed
1964 Cruiser
And various other "treasures"
Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond & Louisa, Va.

CHAMP
07-13-2006, 06:49 PM
The parts store has been gone for quite a while and the gas station is now a Sunoco self serve. That was the last gas station in the area as we remember them. Times have changed! I haven't seen Joe in quite a while now. :)

GARY H 2DR.SEDAN 48 STUDEBAKER CHAMPION NORTHEAST MD.

CHAMP
07-14-2006, 03:03 PM
OK I finaly figured out why the 48 champion was running rich! It's so simple I can hardly beleive it myself. The last time I blew out the mesh air filter I blew from the inside out. Today I blew compressed air from the outside in and it is running fine! I hooked the choke back up and it is working fine now!:D

GARY H 2DR.SEDAN 48 STUDEBAKER CHAMPION NORTHEAST MD.

CHAMP
07-14-2006, 03:05 PM
BTW, I would really like to thank everybody for all your help!!!!!!!!:D

GARY H 2DR.SEDAN 48 STUDEBAKER CHAMPION NORTHEAST MD.

CHAMP
07-17-2006, 08:10 AM
Well I put over one hundred fifty miles on the 48 Stude. this past weekend. Got over twenty miles per gallon and it never missed a beat! Pulled a spark plug and it is burning nice and clean. I just might take it to Martinsburg next weekend! Again thanks everybody for all your help!!!! Maybe I'll see some of you in Martinsburg![8D]

GARY H 2DR.SEDAN 48 STUDEBAKER CHAMPION NORTHEAST MD.

CHAMP
08-09-2006, 06:39 PM
I just want to clarify one thing. On my first post of this thread I stated that car still ran rich with air filter off. I was wrong I think the spark plugs were to fouled out to clear themselves when I ran without the air filter the first time. I was cleaning or changing the plugs after making changes after that. Hope this clears things up in case anyone was wondering. BTW I just filled it up today and got 22.7 MPG! Thats more like it! Again thanks for everybodies help!!!!!:)

GARY H 2DR.SEDAN 48 STUDEBAKER CHAMPION NORTHEAST MD.