PDA

View Full Version : Engine maybe frozen?



cabrina
07-05-2006, 06:52 PM
Hi All!

Dad wants to try to turn the engine over in the 1950 Champion before I go any further removing body parts. He recommended I remove the spark plugs and pour oil down each cylinder in preparation for the big spin. My question is what type and weight would give the best results? Searching past forum chats it looks like I need to drain the gonky oil too before attempting this feat. Any other tips will be appreciated. Don't need to look too stupid in front of my dad. :)

Cabrina

mbstude
07-05-2006, 06:57 PM
We've taken engine's that were stuck before and are still driving them now. My Daytona's engine was stuck when we got it. It's been runnin' for 20 years since my grandad freed it up. We drain all the old gooey oil and shoot the spark plug holes full of Marvel Mystery Oil. Then let it sit there a few days. Soon enough, the engine will free up. Try using a prybar on the flywheel to free it instead of spinning with the starter. Just back and forth, real easy.
Someone else may have a better idea, but that's how we do it; most of the time.

Matthew Burnette, the 16 year old Stude nut.
South Georgia Chapter Newsletter Editor
63 Daytona HT (project)
51 2R16 dump truck (yes, I won the raffle)
52 Commander Starliner (basket case)(will trade for another Stude <g>)
MANY more Studes in the family and a few parts cars.
Click my name and check out "Links".

cabrina
07-05-2006, 07:27 PM
Thanks Matt! Next time I go to Auto Zone I'll see if they have some magical Marvel Mystery Oil. Prying on the flywheel sounds a lot safer than trying to free the engine by spinning with the starter. Don't want to throw a rod. When I first bought the car in the 70's it had been sitting for a couple of years. The first squeal that time sounded like hungry piggies at the last supper. It ran for 15 years after that. Hopefully I'll be as lucky this time.

rockne10
07-05-2006, 08:01 PM
I have also used Marvel Mystery Oil and turned the flywheel with success. And have found Marvel Mystery Oil in the automotive section of my local grocery store. I've added it to gas and oil and, on one occassion, revved the engine and dumped it straight down the carb until the engine died. Next day I started the car and was glad no one called the fire department from the smoke that came out the exhaust but it sure cleaned up the topend.

mbstude
07-05-2006, 08:31 PM
Good luck with it and tell us how it all turns out! :)

Matthew Burnette, the 16 year old Stude nut.
South Georgia Chapter Newsletter Editor
63 Daytona HT (project, OHV 6 engine, soon to have dual exhaust)
51 2R16 dump truck (yes, I won the raffle)
52 Commander Starliner (basket case)(will trade for another Stude <g>)
MANY more Studes in the family and a few parts cars.
Click my name and check out "Links".

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/rainyday.jpg

54-61-62
07-06-2006, 11:11 AM
My experience is that stuck engines stay stuck unless you drive the pistons out with a hammer and block of wood. Maybe my stuff is just rustier......idk

KF

Roscomacaw
07-06-2006, 11:35 AM
I've had luck with Matthew's approach. Didn't always use Marvel Mystery Oil - Automatic tranny fluid - various penetrating oils - etc.. Then using a BIG-A** ratchet (3/4" drive) on the crank bolt and pulling one way and then the other. You do risk actually loosening that bolt when turning it counter-clockwise - but then it IS a bolt after all.;)
Another thing to worry about (on overhead valve engines - which the '50 Champion doesn't have) is a stuck valve or two.:(

I've got a 289 out in the shop that I kept dousing with penetrating oils and tranny fluid very occasionally thru the course of 6 or 7 years (I wasn't planning on using it anytime soon!). I'd try to turn it a few days after each application of fluid. One day - POP! That was it. I guess the fluids FINALLY got to whatever piston and rings were resisting.[^]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

JDP
07-06-2006, 11:50 AM
The super duper engine freeing tool is made by using a old starter motor nose and drive gear. Weld up a adapter for a 3/4 inch drive socket to the drive gear and bolt the nose in. Might only be needed for guys that have a engine to free up more than once.:)

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
Studebaker News Group
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.studebaker
64 Daytona HT
64 Daytona Convert.
64 R2 4 speed Challenger
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
63 R1 GT Hawk
63 Avanti R1/AC
63 Avanti R2/4 speed
62 Daytona HT
62 Lark 2 door
60 Hawk

cabrina
07-06-2006, 06:22 PM
Thanks for the great suggestions and encouragement! I am lucky to have found such a nice group of people with a good sense of humor! Hopefully I will not have to resort to the baby sledgehammer or super duper spinner methods. :) Don't need the temption of having a hammer in my hands when things aren't going exactly as planned. :D

Roscomacaw
07-06-2006, 08:17 PM
LOL![:o)] Your comment about the hammer in your hands when you're frustrated made me remember an incident I once witnessed in a repair shop.

A young mechanic was working on a Jag sedan's front disc brakes. Something didn't want to yeild to his hammer tapping until it let go all of a sudden and whacked him in the chin pretty hard! (I think it was a stuck brake rotor or something like that:()

Anyway, he'd been working on the car while sitting on a little stool with his head and upper body beneath the front fender when he got assailed by the unstuck part.
I heard him cuss from across the shop, followed by the rapid beat of the hammer he still had in his hand! The incredible sight was that with each upswing of that frustration-driven hammer, a big welt would pop out on the top of the fender![:0][xx(][8]
After about a half dozen swings, he backed out of the fender, threw the hammer to the floor and walked out the door of the shop.:( Good thing it was HIS car he'd been working on!:D

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

mbstude
07-06-2006, 08:22 PM
Aren't Jag disc brakes the same as Stude's?


Matthew Burnette, the 16 year old Stude nut. South Georgia Chapter; Newsletter Editor
63 Daytona HT (project, OHV 6 engine, soon to have dual exhaust)
51 2R16 dump truck (yes, I won the raffle)
52 Commander Starliner (basket case)(will trade for another Stude <g>)
MANY more Studes in the family and a few parts cars.
Click my name and check out "Links".

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/rainyday.jpg

Roscomacaw
07-06-2006, 09:36 PM
Yup - the vintage ones are.;)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

tomnoller
07-07-2006, 05:34 PM
Bob, your story about the guy with the hammer being snot-flyin' mad, reminded me of a short tempered fellow I knew who was a good mechanic. I was 16 and he was in his late 20s and we worked at a gas station where I filled the cars tanks and he did the work under the hood. The kind of guy who left work in a cloud of burning rubber everyday anxious to down several brewskis.
One slow day he had his GeeTeeOh in the bay, on the lift seperating the tranny from the housing and he didn't have the jack just right under it and there was a big crash as the tranny caught his foot. I'll never forget, the car wasn't up all the way on the rack and when he came out from under it, he was hunched and furious; spewing a littany of words I'd never heard, picked up a hammer and without slowing down, sailed it through the windshield. Scared me to death.

chrysleritis
07-07-2006, 09:00 PM
And you probably won't be sorry if you tear down and clean up the starter while you have it out to get at the flywheel. You'll have a better shot at repeated starts that way. Pull all the plugs, put a bit of oil in each cylinder, and rock it back and forth wherever you can. Let sit. Heck, it's not that hard to just pull the head off and have a look see at the top end. My dad's advice was to get the car on the road and driving it before you tackle all the body work and making it look good. It is good feedback to drive it, even if it looks like cr@p.

cabrina
07-10-2006, 06:55 PM
Hi Chrysleritis,

How far would you go tearing down and cleaning up the starter? Replace the solenoid and the brushes? Lightly sand the commutator, too? Shouldn't have to go so far as to rewind the stators, right?

Poor baby does look like crap but someday it'll be shiny. :) In the meantime the 2006 Mustang is in the driveway and the bulletnose is in the garage. We have to keep our priorities straight afterall. :D

Roscomacaw
07-10-2006, 08:47 PM
My approach to the starter would be to replace the brushes and the bushings that the armature turns in. Cleaning up the commutator with some fine sandpaper would be OK but it'd be better to use some scotchbrite pad as that won't leave abrasives imbedded in that soft copper.
Ideally, you'd have it (the commutator) turned on a late and then have the grooves between the commutator segments cut anew. This was standard practice for Generator/starter shops in years past.

Either way, new brushes and bushings and I'd bet it'd be good to go!. Solenoid - if it works, leave it alone.;)

The stators and the armature - if they're not visibly burnt or shorted, they're probably gonna do their job for some time to come.:D

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

chrysleritis
07-11-2006, 12:01 AM
I concur with Mr. Biggs -- disassemble and clean the starter, paying attention to the bendix assembly, bushings, and if necessary, replace the brushes. If it spins good on the bench, don't bother mucking with anything else. I'm just saying that you can get it in much better shape than it probably is now by cleaning it all out, and you'll have a robust starter for lots of experimenting, and you'll have good, clean access to the flywheel to turn the engine by hand. Solenoids are available as a replacement easily, so if yours works, leave it. If it doesn't, well spend the fifteen bucks.

cabrina
07-11-2006, 09:16 AM
Thanks Chrysleritis and Mr. Biggs! Cleaning the starter will be a good project while waiting for the Marvel Mystery Oil to do its job. I would sure love to surprise dad and have the engine purring the next time he drops over. The only way I could do that now is by hiding a cat under the hood. :)

buddymander
07-11-2006, 09:37 AM
Is it a stick? You could just spray some WD40 in it and put it in gear and rock it back and forth.

53k
07-12-2006, 05:51 PM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

I've had luck with Matthew's approach. Didn't always use Marvel Mystery Oil - Automatic tranny fluid - various penetrating oils - etc.. Then using a BIG-A** ratchet (3/4" drive) on the crank bolt and pulling one way and then the other. You do risk actually loosening that bolt when turning it counter-clockwise - but then it IS a bolt after all....
What size socket do I need to turn my 289? My biggest 1/2" drive is a 1 1/4 and it isn't even close?

Paul Johnson
'53 Commander Starliner (since 1966)
'64 Daytona Wagonaire (original owner)
'64 Daytona Convertible (2006)
Museum R-4 engine

stephenm
07-13-2006, 10:48 AM
The best product in the world for stuck pistons...or anything other stuck or rusted metal parts is
Rust Bomb...made by Conklin Company....you can call 1-800-888-8838 to
find a source in your area....you won't believe what a difference it will make in your life!

DilloCrafter
07-13-2006, 01:01 PM
quote:Originally posted by 53k
What size socket do I need to turn my 289? My biggest 1/2" drive is a 1 1/4 and it isn't even close?

Measure across the bolt with a ruler, to be sure of the size. On my '55 flathead six, it requires a 1 1/2" socket. I found a Craftsman 3/4" drive at Sears, but it set me back $22.00. Months later, I spot a name brand socket that same size in Autozone for $8.99! Either way, I also needed an adapter to use the 3/4" drive socket on a 1/2" drive socket wrench. My advice - look at your Friendly Local Auto Parts Stores (FLAPS) first, before going to Sears.

http://rocketdillo.com/studebaker/misc/images/Current_Avacar.gif[/img=left] - DilloCrafter

1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
[i]The Red-Headed Amazon
Deep in the heart of Texas

Roscomacaw
07-13-2006, 02:00 PM
Yeah, it's a 1&1/2" on any V8. I'd have answered a bit sooner but I was "under the weather" all day yesterday. On the mend now, thanks![:I]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

CHAMP
07-13-2006, 02:21 PM
Glad to hear your on the mend Mr.Biggs!!!!!:)

GARY H 2DR.SEDAN 48 STUDEBAKER CHAMPION NORTHEAST MD.