PDA

View Full Version : 400 pontiac in a stude?



stude freak
07-04-2006, 05:26 AM
Ok ,I know im about to open a can of worms.I truly like the stude engines.But on the 'dare to be different ' side has any one ever dropped a 400 bb pontiac in a stude?I got a 2 owner 73 booneville with great drive line 400 bb 400 turbo trans.Any Opinions?

Dan White
07-04-2006, 06:38 AM
There was a 53 or 54 C/K in N. CA a few years back with a 400 or 455 Pontiac. If you are going to swap at least be different!

Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT

stude53
07-04-2006, 09:46 AM
Why not?

If you have a good Pontiac drive train and a Stude that lacks one,go for it. What Stude are you thinking of?

Regards,
Bob (stude53)[8D]

stude freak
07-04-2006, 12:30 PM
I've located a 54 c commander in south Ms.It has most everything but the drive train.It will need full recuperative(not restoration) interior rust removal etc.... ,but looks like a fairly solid car.My buddy said put it in the 61 hawk.I just gave him a hard look n said you gotta be drinking something stronger than pepsi.Maybe a 60s plain jane lark(super sleeper).Just a wandering thought in my feeble mind n thought i would get some input from more knowledgeable men than me.thx for the responseP.S. it has a 2 bbl carb on it n gets 19.6 mpg in that monster 4 dr bonneville ,really not lying.It will also bury the speedo n its like sitting in that big ole favorite chair you got

Alan
07-04-2006, 01:17 PM
It is a nice swap but don't expect to do it in a few weeks.

imported_n/a
07-04-2006, 03:00 PM
The overall design of the Pontiac engine is very similar to that of the Studebaker, though it only has 10 headbolts per side, cast rods and crank, Non-adjustable valve train(unless you install BBC studs), valve springs that coil bind easily and a few other quirks. Most people would not notice that it is a swap at first glance. The main benefit is that it has a much larger piston displacement, and is very torquey as a result. The engine mount bolt bosses are cast into the side of the block midway between front and rear, so you will have to build special frame mounts. But all that is good, since you intend to use the Turbo-Hydramatic, and a crossmember to support it at the tailshaft extension housing. The intake manifold/carburetor is kind of a high-rise design,compared to the Studebaker unit, so that hood clearance could be tight.

showbizkid
07-04-2006, 11:44 PM
I saw a '61 Champ with a 389 stuffed in it at the POCI convention in Anaheim a few years back. It was a tight fit, but he did it without cutting the firewall!

---------------------------
Clark in San Diego:

Proud new owner of a '63 Lark!

PackardV8
07-05-2006, 12:08 AM
Your car, your choice, just some thoughts:

FWIW, the Studebaker V8 is the second widest, tallest, heaviest post-50s V8 of its displacement I know of. This means any modern V8 will fit. We've seen Cadillac, Pontiac, big-block-tall-deck Chevrolets, hemi Mopars, Oldsmobile and many others successfully installed in Studes.

One thing to remember, the time, expense and labor of an engine swap is relatively the same, no matter engine what you put in it. If the Poncho is free and money is tight, then maybe it is where you want to go.

As many times as I have fragged the concept of belly-button SBCs in Studes, their popularity means more horsepower per dollar than anything else. Pontiac power costs two to three times as much as Chevy power.

As a thought, was at an orphan car show recently and naturally, there were several Studes. One nice '53 had a built 350/350 SBC and everyone walked by yawning. A GT Hawk had a 302 SBF and more yawns. A nice white '54 coupe had an R3 clone engine and the crowd around it was two and three deep most of the day.

Anyone want to guess what is physically the biggest outside, no bigger than a Stude inside V8 I ever tried to fit in a swap?

thnx, jv.

PackardV8

klifton1
07-05-2006, 07:38 AM
Small Dodge Hemi?
Klif

Dan White
07-05-2006, 08:04 AM
International V8?

Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT

Dan White
07-05-2006, 08:06 AM
I mess with Pontiacs occasionally and one day I had an odd idea and took a intake manifold gasket from a Pontiac and laid it onto a Stude head and guess what, it was almost an exact fit. So I thought maybe the intake would line up, but no go the stagger of the cylinders is opposite of the Stude!

Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT

52hawk
07-05-2006, 08:06 AM
292 y-block furd??

LaSalle,Il
61Hawk
60Lark

stude freak
07-05-2006, 08:36 AM
Wohooooooo,
just got an e-mail this morning from Stude 53.It turns out hes just couple hrs drive from me in Ms.Hes got a studillac and I think I can get some great ideas from his car.Talking to him a couple months ago thru another member sorta planted the seed about swapping a poncho in a stude. I'm hoping i can get down there soon an get a close up view of his beautiful Stude.I saw some pictures of it he sent me.Thanks for the input guys,I think the seeds about to sprout.

tstclr
07-05-2006, 08:53 AM
A 455 Buick would be a good swap. If you throw an aluminum intake on one they weigh the same as a SBC. If you found a 1970 Vintage 455, you wouldn't have to do any mods to it to make it a scary ride. 510 ft/lbs of torque at 2800rpm would really launch a little Lark, wouldn't it?:D
Todd


63 Lark 2dr Sedan

stude freak
07-05-2006, 09:03 AM
Had a 445 buick once in a 69 i think(long ago short memory).At todays gas prices I would prob have to buy a oil company to drive it. Of course I was in my early 20s and gas was cheap n it was pedal to metal driving it ,man that wildcat could scoot.

PackardV8
07-05-2006, 01:16 PM
WOW, proving once again, we have some serious old gearheads here! For coming up with what I considered the biggest outside, smallest inside '50s V8 engine , first prize goes to klifton1 for "small Dodge hemi." Because it had only 241"-315" and had those huge, wide hemi heads, like the Stude, with displacement of 224"-304.5", they both take up a yard of space outside for a few inches of displacement inside.

Dan White guessed International V8. Their V8 is huge outside for a 304" but IH did offer it in much larger displacements.

52Hawk guessed Y-block Ford. For its 239"-312" size, it was average for the '50s, big by modern 302" standards. I am not aware of anything which will put 347" into a smaller physical space than that SBF.

thnx, jv

PackardV8

Mike Van Veghten
07-05-2006, 02:10 PM
Packebaker quote -
quote:The overall design of the Pontiac engine is very similar to that of the Studebaker,

Well...that's true. But aren't most all of'em the same design?
Let me count the ways...
1. Heads, most all have'em
2. Crank shafts, most all have'em
3. Blocks, again....
4. Cams, required for all
5. etc., etc.

Hell...I had a guy tell me the other day my Stude bare block looked "just" like a 392 hemi block! A lot of similarites there! What the seperate valley cover?

Mike

PackardV8
07-05-2006, 05:09 PM
Too true, Mike. But first, in Packardbaker's defense, we can guess he meant nothing more than both the Stude and the Poncho are similar size wedge-head V8s. Where one will fit, so will the other. Most everything else is different because the Poncho is second-generation GM.

To address your statement, engines from the same era tend to have similar design features. Guys who don't work on too many engines see a '50s V8 with a valley cover, or the pushrod holes in the block or the water pump manifold, or the siamesed center exhaust ports and say "looks just like a . . ."





PackardV8

imported_n/a
07-05-2006, 06:27 PM
Well, here is how the Pontiac is much like the Stude: distributor at the back of the block, sheet-metal valley cover underneath a separate intake manifold, cast-aluminum timing cover, rocker cover gaskets are very close in shape. It would be easy to mistake one for the other at first glance. The clue is the rocker cover hold-down studs/nuts though the top of the cover , and the bolt-on water manifold on Studebaker.

stude freak
07-05-2006, 11:54 PM
Well i called Stude53 tonight and i m going down there saturday probably .So next week i may have a 54 coupe in my shop.He quoted me a price and i asked if he took cash.So maybe in the not so near future we will see how the 400 poncho fits.The weird thing was i saw him and his dad about 3 weeks ago at the Tupelo car museum and didnt know it was him.His dad had the sharp black 50 stude pickup i told yall about in another post.From now on im going to wear a name tag with stude freak on it so if any you guys see me walk up and introduce yourself.I think i will know Mr.Biggs,I seen his pics enought on here.And hes about my size n just almost as homely as me .lol:D[B)]no offense meant Bob just stating a fact