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Swifster
07-03-2006, 09:52 PM
I went thru some photos I've saved of the Bendix fuel injection system as used by Chrysler in 1958. This system was supposed to be used on the '57 Nash Rebel, and was used by Chrysler on their high performance cars. Dodge, DeSoto and Plymouth used theirs on the 361 V-8 and the Chrysler 300D had it on it's 392 Hemi. Studebaker and Ford also had thoughts of using this system. Various low figuires have been floated about how many actually left the assembly line with these troublesome units.

The pictures attached are of a 1958 DeSoto Adventurer convertible (rare in itself!) with the Bendix injection unit. Like most cars that left the assembly line with this system, it was removed and replaced with carburetion. The system on this car is original to the car. It was located during the restoration process and reinstalled. The badges on this car are the only known ones that exist.

The system doesn't look that much different than todays multiport injected cars. I need to win a large lottery jackpot so I can have toys like this car...

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/Adventurer20from20above.jpg

1958 DeSoto Adventurer convertible

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/FI20Badge20up20close.jpg

1958 DeSoto Fuel Injection Badge

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/Passengers20side.jpg

Bendix Fuel Injection on 361 V-8

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/Throttle20Bodys.jpg

Layout of Bendix Fuel Injection System

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/Primary20throttle20body.jpg

Bendix Throttle Body

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/Inside20brain20box.jpg

Inside Bendix EFI Brain Box

Additional pictures can be found at http://chrysler300club.com/jhstuff/fuelie/fuelie.html

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Tom - Lakeland, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

Michigan Speed - www.michiganspeed.com
Club Hot Rod - www.clubhotrod.com
LS1 Tech - www.ls1tech.com

Dick Steinkamp
07-03-2006, 10:12 PM
That is so cool [8D]! I'd hate to guess what that Adventurer is worth[:0].



http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

imported_n/a
07-03-2006, 10:21 PM
I read somewhere that they acually used vacuum tubes in the electronic controls for the Bendix systems on those cars, but I didn't see them in the photos...

Swifster
07-03-2006, 11:51 PM
quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

That is so cool [8D]! I'd hate to guess what that Adventurer is worth[:0].



http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg


Just guessing, but for what I've seen letter series 300 convertibles going for, I'd think over 200K wouldn't be out of the question.

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Tom - Lakeland, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

Michigan Speed - www.michiganspeed.com
Club Hot Rod - www.clubhotrod.com
LS1 Tech - www.ls1tech.com

5859
07-04-2006, 12:35 AM
WOW! I have been a long time fan of Forward look Chrysler products, having owned several, currently a 59 Dodge. I would love to be able to find a fi setup. I think that may be one of the only ones in existance on that Desoto. I frequent Chrysler boards, and have yet to see these pictures, until now. I have been to this site before too I believe. Thankyou for sharing them with us.

PackardV8
07-04-2006, 12:58 AM
Neat car pix. I can vaguely remember seeing a Rambler Rebel at a new car show in 1957 which featured thier version of EFI.

Bendix had the right idea, but just gave up on it too soon. Bendix just couldn't see past the analog circuity of the '50s which was too slow and unreliable. Had they hung on and perfected it, it would have made them hundreds of millions of dollars. For the last thirty years nearly all modern cars have used this same basic design fuel injection.

When solid state digital technology became affordable, Bosch started putting it on Volkswagens, Saabs, Audi back in the late '60s and early '70s. The first generation had teething problems and some manufacturers gave up on it for a while. For them, Bosch went to a constant flow system for the early 80s, all the while continuing to perfect the electronic timed injectors.

Combined with supercharging/turbocharging and digital control of ignition, it has made race car levels of power available on the street with a 5-year/50kmi warranty.

PackardV8

N8N
07-04-2006, 06:49 AM
actually... the really early Bosch injection *was* analog. I don't think they went digital until at least the early 70's.

nate

(has a '71 914/4 with the old analog Bosch injection...)

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Swifster
07-04-2006, 10:05 AM
Chrysler was the only company brave (dumb?) enough to install this unit on their cars. AMC couldn't get the system to operate well enough to actually sell these on their cars. The unit, when operating correctly, was supposed to be good for an additional 10-15 HP. The 300D with this system was rated at 400HP. The numbers suggest 18 300D's left the assembly line with this set up. There is on picture in that site showing a rather dirty and dusty Chrysler parked in storage with the unit intact. Now if that car is still sitting where that picture was taken is another story...

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Tom - Lakeland, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

Michigan Speed - www.michiganspeed.com
Club Hot Rod - www.clubhotrod.com
LS1 Tech - www.ls1tech.com

studegary
07-04-2006, 04:02 PM
quote:Originally posted by Swifster

Chrysler was the only company brave (dumb?) enough to install this unit on their cars.


It may not have been a Bendix unit or my memory may be playing tricks on me, but a friend of mine bought a new 1957 Pontiac Bonneville convertible and I thought that it came with fuel injection. (That was only 49 years ago! <G>)

Gary L.
1954 Commander Starliner (restomod)
1959 DeLuxe pickup (restomod)

imported_n/a
07-04-2006, 04:07 PM
The Pontiac used a Rochester Products fuel injection system that was not an electronic f.i. The unit only sensed engine vacuum and throttle position to properly meter the fuel.

studegary
07-04-2006, 04:18 PM
quote:Originally posted by Packebaker

The Pontiac used a Rochester Products fuel injection system that was not an electronic f.i. The unit only sensed engine vacuum and throttle position to properly meter the fuel.


Thank you! I am glad that it was just a different unit and that my memory wasn't failing me {about the car having fuel injection}<G>. It is surprising how these things from a half century ago pop back into one's head.

Gary L.
1954 Commander Starliner (restomod)
1959 DeLuxe pickup (restomod)

Swifster
07-04-2006, 04:19 PM
With Rochester being a division of GM, this was pretty much an in-house effort. GM used that system from 1957 until 1965. While they were far better in terms of dependability, it was not trouble free either. It took a good wrench in the day to make one run properly.

Chevy and Pontiac used the FI in top of the line cars in '57 & '58 (maybe Oldsmobile, too), but was other wise strictly a Corvette piece. GM went to Tri-Power set ups on their large cars when the FI had issues.

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Tom - Lakeland, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

Michigan Speed - www.michiganspeed.com
Club Hot Rod - www.clubhotrod.com
LS1 Tech - www.ls1tech.com

PackardV8
07-04-2006, 11:11 PM
FWIW, few of the first generation fuel injections or superchargers really survived a couple of warranty problems with an old-time-flathead-mechanic. I was there back in the day and could have been rich today if I had bought up all the GM, Packard or Mopar 2-4bbls, GM fuel injection, Mopar cross-ram-2-4bbl and Stude supercharger setups pulled off by mechanics who couldn't make them work or because they continually failed mechanically. During the 1960s, most of the '57-58 Golden Hawks and Packards I ran across had the supercharger in the trunk or replaced with a single 4-bbl. The race shop I worked in had three Corvette FI systems on a shelf and a couple of Mopar cross-ram 2-4bbls stacked in a corner. All came out of cars whose owners were tired of the problems and just settled for a single 4-bbl.

My first modern encounter with the Bosch EFI was with a 1973 Saab. Now you have made me wonder if it was digital or analog. Seems by then they were into digital, because it was a revalation of how powerful and smooth a 4-banger could be when given an EFI that worked.

thnx, jv.

PackardV8

R2Andrea
07-06-2006, 02:42 PM
The Bendix electronics unit that you see isn't exactly as it was built. It was reverse engineered by the guy who owns and restored the car. There is a good account of the car at www.allpar.com/cars/desoto/electrojector.html . Bendix shelved the Electrojector system and later sold the design rights to Bosch. This became the basis for their successful D-Jetronic EFI system.
Studebaker Engineering worked with a number of different injection systems over the years. I don't know if the Bendix system was one of them or not but, considering Studebakers other dealings with Bendix, it wouldn't be supprising. I have also heard that the Rochester constant flow (Chevy/Pontiac)unit was tried but I haven't seen anything that could confirm that.
I have a series of part numbers for the proposed 1959 B-H-L models that were setup for fuel injection. From the looks of things, it used a camshaft driven, front mounted injector pump and possibly direct injection. Since none of these blueprints have survived, I'm unable to determine who's basic setup this is. Studebaker worked with Kugelfischer on FI but from what I've learned it was in a slightly later time frame than these part numbers indicate.
Studebaker also worked with Marvel Schebler on a really interesting timed flow mechanical injection system. In the end, Studebakers financial situation probably did more to cancel any hopes of offering fuel injection than any other factor.

R2Andy