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showbizkid
06-22-2006, 11:02 PM
Yesterday I went out to start the Lark. It hadn't been started in about a week. It took 5 times cranking and a shot of Thrust down the carb to make her catch, but then she caught and ran fine at high idle.

But I noticed that the fuel gauge read near empty, when it had been 1/3 full a week before. I also noticed a smell - not strong, but noticeable - of gas when I opened the trunk.

There are no gas leaks or dribbles under the car, but the flexible filler tube that goes between the fuel filler and the tank seems to have several cracks in the rubber. Could my gas be evaporating out of the tank through the cracks in this tube?

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Clark in San Diego:

Proud new owner of a '63 Lark!

StudeRich
06-23-2006, 03:25 AM
Yes Clark it definetly could, if you are having 70+ degree days there, it's way more than 80+ in the trunk and it will happen. Also if you park on on an upgrade actual gas will run out from the filler hose. The condition could also be worsened by people helping themselfs to your gas, at these prices, I wouldn't be surprized!:( Rich.

[quote]Originally posted by showbizkid

Yesterday I went out to start the Lark. It hadn't been started in about a week. It took 5 times cranking and a shot of Thrust down the carb to make her catch, but then she caught and ran fine at high idle.

But I noticed that the fuel gauge read near empty, when it had been 1/3 full a week before. I also noticed a smell - not strong, but noticeable - of gas when I opened the trunk.

There are no gas leaks or dribbles under the car, but the flexible filler tube that goes between the fuel filler and the tank seems to have several cracks in the rubber. Could my gas be evaporating out of the tank through the cracks in this tube?
---------------------------
Clark in San Diego:

StudeRich
Ferndale, WA

Roscomacaw
06-23-2006, 04:28 PM
Rich says: "The condition could also be worsened by people helping themselfs to your gas, at these prices, I wouldn't be surprized!"

And that was MY first thought. With gas over 3 bucks a gallon here, and a Stude tank SO easy to siphon from...........:(

Folks are getting desperate in this supposedly burgeoning economy. There was a local episode last week where this one company came back to work on Monday morning and found their AC system wasn't working. A trip to the roof revealed that someone had SWIPED the AC units, presumably to scrap out the copper and other metals therein![V]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

PackardV8
06-23-2006, 06:05 PM
Check the oil level. A bad fuel pump diaphragm failed in the worst way and parked on the right slant can leak fuel into the oil pan. Third-of-a-tank would be a lot, but it has happened.

PackardV8

showbizkid
06-23-2006, 10:22 PM
Thanks guys. I checked the oil level and all's good there. I have a feeling I need to replace that filler tube.

Can this be done without dropping the tank? And what do you use to seal the hole in the trunk floor around it?

---------------------------
Clark in San Diego:

Proud new owner of a '63 Lark!

StudeRich
06-24-2006, 06:14 PM
Clark, the filler hose 1544436, is an easy change out, I [}:)]and the other Stude. vendors have them; all same price: $12.95. The floor has a oval metal plate that holds the 1342577 seal to the floor, the seals are $4.50 if the clamps are good, you are good to go!:D
Also, I would park it level, in a "SAFE" from vandals place; if you think that could be happening![:0]:(
Rich. at Studebakers Northwest, Everett and Ferndale, WA

[quote]Originally posted by showbizkid

Thanks guys. I checked the oil level and all's good there. I have a feeling I need to replace that filler tube.

Can this be done without dropping the tank? And what do you use to seal the hole in the trunk floor around it?

---------------------------
Clark in San Diego:


StudeRich
Ferndale, WA

ROADRACELARK
06-24-2006, 07:12 PM
Clark,
I believe it would be in your best intrest to purchase a locking gas cap . I'm pretty sure there's one out there from a vendor or mabe on E-Bay.:)
Dan

Guido
06-24-2006, 11:22 PM
You may want to think twice on the locking cap. I can recall during the gas crisis in the early ;70's that thieves would simply punch holes in the bottom of the tank in order to bypass the locking cap. Is it better to lose some fuel or have to repair or install a new tank?

Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

1946 M-16 fire truck
1948 M-16 grain truck
1949 2R16A grain truck
1949 2R17A fire truck
1955 E-38 grain truck
1957 3E-40 flatbed
1961 6E-28 grain truck
1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck
1962 Champ pickup
1962 GT Hawk 4 speed
1964 Avanti R2 4 speed
1964 Cruiser
And various other "treasures"

showbizkid
06-25-2006, 12:11 AM
Update: I think we can rule out gas theft... seems the tank sender is a bit twitchy. I poured in 1.5 gallons and the needle jumped up to "half" :D

BUT this doesn't explain the fact that I've got to use starting fluid because there's no gas in the carb. Went out again today - she's only been sitting two days this time - and had to go through the same routine. Cranked her 4 times, just kept spinning. A shot of Thrust, and she caught and kept running. Several shut-offs and restarts later, still running fine.

It's almost as if all the fuel in the bowl is evaporating between runs. [?] Time for a carb rebuild?

---------------------------
Clark in San Diego:

Proud new owner of a '63 Lark!

ROADRACELARK
06-25-2006, 09:14 AM
Clark,
Your culprit is probably the fuel pump. With age the check valves begin to leak allowing fuel to return to the tank. Kinda' like the old well pump loosing it's prime.:) When that happens, the pump has to start pumping fuel all the way from the tank. That's why it takes so long to get it started. Hope this helps :)
Dan

Dick Steinkamp
06-25-2006, 10:17 AM
quote:Originally posted by ROADRACELARK

Clark,
Your culprit is probably the fuel pump. With age the check valves begin to leak allowing fuel to return to the tank. Kinda' like the old well pump loosing it's prime.:) When that happens, the pump has to start pumping fuel all the way from the tank. That's why it takes so long to get it started. Hope this helps :)
Dan


Dan,
I understand what you're saying, but I can't picture it. How does the gas flow UP out of the carb float bowl?



http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

ROADRACELARK
06-25-2006, 10:38 AM
Dick,
Clarj didn't mention the conditionof the carb. Unless it has been rebuilt recently, it could be also part of the problem. I've seen the lead plugs in the bottom of the float bowl leak as will as the accelerator pump check ball not seal and allwo the float bowl to empty. There is a depression in the intake casting right in front of the carb. If this is wet, those plugs are leaking. Also this new sorry gas we are now strrapped with:(, evaporates about as fast as naptha! After engine shut down, the temp. is at its highest (AKA heat soak) causes the fuel to "boil" in the carb. Just some possibilities. FFT (food for thought):)
Dan

Dick Steinkamp
06-25-2006, 10:46 AM
quote:Originally posted by ROADRACELARK

Dick,
Clarj didn't mention the conditionof the carb. Unless it has been rebuilt recently, it could be also part of the problem.


OK...now I see the light :). I've also heard that the carb body can get porus after several rebuilds causing the gas to evaporate when the car sits.



http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

glen
06-25-2006, 10:53 AM
I would have to agree with Dan..check the fuel pump.
While I'm no mechanic, by any means, I was having the
same problem with "Charlene" my 53 Champion. Had to
start her every 2 days or would have to "prime the
pump".....Finally she would start no more...with a
quick diagnosis, by an honest mechanic, a phone call
to Chris Collins of Studebaker Parts for a new fuel
pump....crisis resolved. Time, being the original pump,
along with the new gas, that these cars now have to
drink...cause the problem...the carburator was new as of
2003....Hope this helps Clark.

Glen Brose
53 Champion 2 dr Sedan

ROADRACELARK
06-25-2006, 11:10 AM
Clark,
OBTW, I forgot to mention that nasty, gnarly, probably rotten little piece of rubber fuel line with those useless spring wire clamps,at the tank, may still be on your car from 1963![:0] This hose goes un noticed. Although it may not leak fuel, it can allow air to be "sucked" in causing fuel delivery problems. IMMIC, I think there is also one up front on the fuel delivery line at the pump, can cause the same problem. Get new hose, (5/16) and quality clamps....change these when fuel level in the tank is low....less spillage and lets think SAFETY here... NO electric trouble lights... flash light only... cold gas + hot bulb.....BOOM :( Just more food for thought.(FFT):)
Dan

showbizkid
06-26-2006, 12:53 AM
Thanks, guys! At least now I'm not taking shots in the dark.


---------------------------
Clark in San Diego:

Proud new owner of a '63 Lark!

Mike Sal
07-02-2006, 10:59 PM
Another thing to consider (for the original complaint of long cranking to start a car which has been setting a week) is that the carburators on our studebakers were never known as the cadillacs of carbs. I've had several studes & amc's which would start fine when started every day. But, let them set more than 3 days & it would require longer cranking to get gas back up to the carb. Right or wrong, I always felt gas evaporating from the bowl over time was the main culprit. Changing fuel pumps didn't cure them.

In my bullet nose and my Kaiser, I installed electric fuel pumps with manual switches under the edge of the dash. Anytime the cars set for very long (or on a hot summer day & stop & go driving), I hit the switch for a few seconds. That way there's no extra wear & tear on the starter (and no vapor lock).

Lots-o-luck
Mike Sal

Mike Sal
07-02-2006, 11:02 PM
Forgot to mention I also have a '63 lark, 6cyl automatic. I don't have an electric pump on it yet, so usually dump a little gas down the carb when I need to move it out of the shop (I'm not driving it every day yet due to ongoing re upholstery work).
Mike Sal

showbizkid
07-03-2006, 11:23 AM
Thanks, Mike. I've been noticing all the posts about adding electric pumps.

Update: I went out to start her yesterday after 7 days of 90-degree heat. She caught on the first try, caught and ran on the 2nd try. I hate chasing ghosts :(

---------------------------
Clark in San Diego:

Proud new owner of a '63 Lark!

bondobilly
07-04-2006, 11:49 AM
These old carbs are known to be porous, and it is not uncomon or gas to evaporate thru leaching out the side walls of the units. Now in states where Ethanol is addded, the eveaporation rate is even faster.

Over the past 19 years the Hawk goes into winter hybernation. On up initial start up its SOP to prime the carb.

Now with the new fuels, if the car sits more than three days it requires a bit of cranking. I would also check, but not attempt to repair the fuel resivior(s) as maybe the valve/float is set to drain to quickly.

Proud owner of the Hawk from Hell...... aka as a tow truck queen