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nipster43
06-07-2006, 08:10 PM
is the resistor really needed in the ign. circut, or can I bypass it, on a 1962 champ, thanks

GTtim
06-07-2006, 08:15 PM
Nip, you can bypass the resistor and the car will run. The resistors job is to lower the amount of voltage that goes accross the points. This keeps the points cooler and makes for a smaller spark as they open and close. If you bypass the resistor the full 12 to 14 volts goes accross the points, they get hotter and the bigger spark causes a lot of metal to be transfered from one point to the other which greatly decreases their service life. In other words be prepared to change the points often if you do this.


Tim K.
'64 R2 GT Hawk

Dick Steinkamp
06-07-2006, 09:23 PM
quote:Originally posted by GTtim

Nip, you can bypass the resistor and the car will run. The resistors job is to lower the amount of voltage that goes accross the points. This keeps the points cooler and makes for a smaller spark as they open and close. If you bypass the resistor the full 12 to 14 volts goes accross the points, they get hotter and the bigger spark causes a lot of metal to be transfered from one point to the other which greatly decreases their service life. In other words be prepared to change the points often if you do this.



I agree, Tim. But you DO want to bypass the resistor when the starter is turning the engine to get the hottest spark possible at this critical time. It's done with a wire from the solonoid to the coil that is "hot" when the solonoid is energized.



http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

JDP
06-07-2006, 10:59 PM
I've that'll usually only work for a few hours until you cook the coil.

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
Studebaker News Group
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.studebaker
64 Daytona HT
64 R2 4 speed Challenger
63 R2 4 speed GT Black
63 R2 4 speed GT White
63 GT Hawk
63 Avanti
62 Daytona HT
53 Coupe

hank63
06-08-2006, 09:57 AM
I don't know about the 62 Champ, but on many modern cars with a resistor, the coil is actually 9 volt. During start the resistor is by-passed, giving a hot spark. When running, the resistor reduces the voltage to the coil to 9 volts. Otherwise, like JDP said, the service life is severely compromised.
/H

nipster43
06-08-2006, 11:29 AM
this 62 I have is all orginal, but has set for some time. so far I haven"t had any luck getting any spark. I was going to jump the resitor to see if it is bad. what is the switch on the firewall that the throttle depresses. thanks for all your help

Roscomacaw
06-08-2006, 11:39 AM
If the switch the throttle works has 4 wires going to it, it's the kickdown switch for the overdrive.
You won't hurt anything by bypassing that resistor long enough to decide if it's giving you a problem. On my truck, I had a problem a few years back, with the resistor. Actually, it was a bad wire termination AT the restistor and not the resistor itself. But in diagnosing the problem, it sure SEEMED like the resistor was bad![}:)]
With vehicles that have set a long time, before I even TRY to get them to run, I run a piece of sandpaper between the points first (followed by a piece of cloth or cardboard to eliminate any abrasive the sandpaper might have left behind):D
The points - especially if they're used - can build a film of corrosion while sitting for years - that'll effectively keep them from passing current. They might LOOK good, but they can cause you fits if you don't clean them a bit.[}:)]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

nipster43
06-08-2006, 12:30 PM
I just went out and checked it, I am getting power to the coil but nothing out of it. someone said it may be a 9volt or is it a 12v. thanks

gordr
06-08-2006, 01:02 PM
quote:Originally posted by nipster43

I just went out and checked it, I am getting power to the coil but nothing out of it. someone said it may be a 9volt or is it a 12v. thanks


Nipster, you will never find a coil marked "9 volts". What you commonly will find is a 12 volt coil bearing the words "Use with External Resistor" They do make 12 volt coils that don't require an external resistor, VW Beetles are on example of such.

I second Biggs' observation on cleaning the points. I always pass a bit of sandpaper or a points file through the points before try to start a car that has been long dormant.

When doing troubleshooting of this nature, one the handiest tools you can have is a simple 12 volt test light. Connect it between the coil (-) terminal and ground, and crank the engine. If the light cycles on and off as the engine turns, you know that the distributor points are working, and that the distributor is in fact turning as the crankshaft turns, which means the distributor drive gears and camshaft drive gears are OK.

If the light comes on and stays on for this test, then the points are either not closing, or failing to make good electrical contact when they close. If the light does not light at all when cranking, then the points are either not opening for some reason, or possibly the wire pigtail inside the dsitributor may be shorted to ground.

In any case, this type of test will go a long way toward enabling you to zero in on the problem.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

Mike
06-08-2006, 04:01 PM
Why did you ask about the OD kick down switch? One of the two circuits through it, grounds the ignition points so a shift out of OD can occur. OD can't shift under load. It gets a ground from the OD solenoid, when OD is engaged; through the kick down switch, when the throttle is floored.
You can disconnect it at the distributor or coil, to get the car running.
Mike M.

Roscomacaw
06-08-2006, 04:37 PM
nip, you said:" I am getting power to the coil but nothing out of it."

Don't make sense. You can have power to the coil, but as far as getting anything OUT of it - that doesn't occur until the OTHER small post on the coil gets a ground from the points. Actually, the spark from the coil is generated when the points OPEN UP after having been closed and thereby provided a ground to the - side of the coil momentarily. It's when those points OPEN - and the ground they provide is cut - that the magnetic field that momentarily existed in the coil windings collapses. As that momentary magnetic field collapses across the coils internal windings, a bolt of high potential electricity is generated - THAT'S the spark that jumps the plug's gap and fires the gasoline/air mixture! If there's 6 or 8 lobes (peaks) on the distributor's cam, that's how many times the magnetic field of the coil is made every time the engine makes one complete revolution. Got all that[?][:I]

So to "Get anything out of it" the coil not only has to have voltage to it but have a ground from the points as well. It's when you BREAK that ground that you'll "get something out" of the coil.

12V - 9V - 6V ..... doesn't matter temporarily. And as has been said, no such thing as a 9V coil. Not for cars anyway.

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

nipster43
06-08-2006, 05:56 PM
Mr Biggs thanks for your info, as much as I have worked on my 55 ford truck I never have never heard that before about the points grounding the coil to make the spark. I just thought the coil was hot and when the points opened it fired or maybe we are saying the same thing in different ways, lol. anyhow it gives me an idea of what to check. the story on this truck is crazy. I went to a junk yard with my son while we were there I saw this truck, it was all there. I figured they wanted alot for it. on the way home my son said he was going to go back later for a ranger. when we went back everything there was going to the crusher, the owner said we could have anything there for 150. I couldn"t believe it. we only had time to save the two and there were so many old cars there that were crushed, made me sick

Roscomacaw
06-08-2006, 06:13 PM
MAN! I hate stories like that - er, all those oldies getting squished! Damn![xx(]

So, what engine does the Champ have in it?[?]

BTW, did you get the Ranger? Was it a truck or an Edsel[:0][?]:D

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

studegary
06-08-2006, 08:39 PM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

nip, you said:" I am getting power to the coil but nothing out of it."

Don't make sense. You can have power to the coil, but as far as getting anything OUT of it - that doesn't occur until the OTHER small post on the coil gets a ground from the points. Actually, the spark from the coil is generated when the points OPEN UP after having been closed and thereby provided a ground to the - side of the coil momentarily. It's when those points OPEN - and the ground they provide is cut - that the magnetic field that momentarily existed in the coil windings collapses. As that momentary magnetic field collapses across the coils internal windings, a bolt of high potential electricity is generated - THAT'S the spark that jumps the plug's gap and fires the gasoline/air mixture! If there's 6 or 8 lobes (peaks) on the distributor's cam, that's how many times the magnetic field of the coil is made every time the engine makes one complete revolution. Got all that[?][:I]



Bob/MrBiggs - Wouldn't that be for everytime the engine makes TWO complete revolutions, or am I not thinking that straight this evening?

Gary L.
1954 Commander Starliner (restomod)
1959 DeLuxe pickup (restomod)

N8N
06-08-2006, 09:20 PM
a quick 'n' dirty coil check would be to run a test lead from B+ to the + side of the coil, and another test lead to the - side of the coil, hold the coil wire near a grounded piece of metal (carefully!) and touch and remove the test lead that is connected to the - side to a grounded piece of metal. You should get a spark out of the coil wire when you remove the test lead. If it passes this check but does not provide spark when running "normally" and you have verified voltage at the + side of the coil, change the points and condenser.

good luck,

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

nipster43
06-09-2006, 06:33 AM
Mr Biggs it was a ranger pickup he wanted. I think the junk yard had been sold to new owners and they were clearing out all the old stuff there. we only had time to make two trips with the flatbed that day or I would have saved more. he said anything we wanted had to be moved that day. the semi was there loading all the cars when we got there, made me sick. I have also found a chevy coupe that looks like a 40 ford, I have no idea of the year, its in rough shape but everything is there. I am going to look at the points today and check them out, maybe the champ will fire then, thanks for your info

Roscomacaw
06-09-2006, 12:14 PM
Gary, fingers ahead of brain. one revolution of the DISTRIBUTOR.[B)]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

studegary
06-09-2006, 01:53 PM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

Gary, fingers ahead of brain. one revolution of the DISTRIBUTOR.[B)]



I understand <G>, and knew that you know better, but didn't want to let the statement stand as gospel for some that don't know. Now we agree, one revolution of the distributor or two revolutions of the engine.

Gary L.
1954 Commander Starliner (restomod)
1959 DeLuxe pickup (restomod)