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MagikDraggin
03-21-2007, 10:39 PM
My '62 Hawk presently has a fixed position 6 blade fan. If I were add a viscous fan clutch, will the same fan fit with no problems, or do I need to obtain a different fan?



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/MagikDraggin/Other%20Stuff/IM000987-reduced.jpg
1962 GT Hawk 4sp

Swifster
03-21-2007, 11:42 PM
The parts book shows only Jet Thrust engines getting the fan clutch. But there isn't a specific fan for JT applications which should mean your fan will work.

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Tom - Valrico, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/1965_Studebaker_Commander_front198x.jpg

MagikDraggin
03-22-2007, 12:49 AM
quote:Originally posted by Swifster

The parts book shows only Jet Thrust engines getting the fan clutch. But there isn't a specific fan for JT applications which should mean your fan will work.

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Tom - Valrico, FL


The "Parts Book", ehh? Looks like I'm going to have to get me one of those things too.

Ok, so logic would suggest the current fan should work...the only unknown then being, whether or not there is sufficient clearance between the fan and the radiator, to allow for a clutch on a non JT application.

Guess I'll have to look into this a bit further. Thanks for the info.

Karl

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/MagikDraggin/Other%20Stuff/IM000987-reduced.jpg
1962 GT Hawk 4sp

PlainBrownR2
03-22-2007, 02:02 AM
Regarding the clutch and non clutch fans, there is a difference in the bolt and hole spacing on the fans. The fixed position fans bolt right to the water pump(or spacer). The viscous clutch fans have a larger diameter hole spacing in the center. This is done to accomodate being attached to the viscous fan clutch, which in turn is attached to the water pump.
You will need to purchase a different fan to attach to the clutch model. Luckily, they come in six, and if I'm not mistaken, seven blades, in a wide variety of sizes and number of blades. I have a viscous fan setup on my Lark with the seven blade in the biggest fan diameter I could stick in the fan shroud.


1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
1950 Studebaker 2R5 with 170 turbocharged
[img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00003.jpg?t=1171152673[/img=left]
[img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00009.jpg?t=1171153019[/img=right]
[img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00002.jpg?t=1171153180[/img=left]
[img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00005.jpg?t=1171153370[/img=right]

Swifster
03-22-2007, 01:11 PM
There were only two listings (and one part number) for a six blade fan. One was for cars with A/C and the other was for non-A/C cars, but with HD cooling. Again, they used the same part number. If there is a 7 blade fan, I didn't see a listing for it. The five blade fan was an R3 piece?

This was with a quick search thru the '59-'64 catalog. Did I miss a fan that wasn't a four blade?

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Tom - Valrico, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/1965_Studebaker_Commander_front198x.jpg

62champ
03-22-2007, 01:25 PM
Here is a pic of the backside of the viscous drive and fan


http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/DSC01968.jpg

Hope that helps.

1960 Lark VI - finally turned 50k in August of 2006

StudeRich
03-22-2007, 01:54 PM
You missed the Jet Thrust section, it shows and lists the R1,R2,R3,R4 type. It should also be in the Air Cond. section, it was used there also. Anyway as George (OPPS; NOT George,wrong Plain Brown Wrapper!)said the bolt hole spacing, center hole size, everything is wrong to add a viscous drive to the HD fan blades.

The replacement 6 blade fan is 800356 $85.00, and the Viscous clutch is 1560257 $68.00 at most of our friendly Studebaker Vendors at: studebakervendors.com


quote:Originally posted by Swifster

This was with a quick search thru the '59-'64 catalog. Did I miss a fan that wasn't a four blade?

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

Swifster
03-22-2007, 04:22 PM
Thanks Rich. I have my parts manuals on CD and didn't go into the Avanti book with the R3's & R4's [:I].

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Tom - Valrico, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/1965_Studebaker_Commander_front198x.jpg

N8N
03-22-2007, 05:39 PM
I think the VD fan uses a different water pump pulley as well, but the only difference is in the diameter.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

studebaker-R2-4-me
03-22-2007, 07:23 PM
And the noise the new fans put out

1964 GT Hawk soon to be R2 Clone

StudeRich
03-23-2007, 10:22 PM
Actually Nate it's the center "Nose" of the water pump hub that needs the deeper one on the HD water Pumps to mount a Viscous Drive unit & fan.


quote:Originally posted by N8N

I think the VD fan uses a different water pump pulley as well, but the only difference is in the diameter.nate

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

StudeRich
03-23-2007, 10:26 PM
Actually Tom, you do not need the Avanti book, the back of your '59-'64 Chassis catalog should have a Jet Thrust section for the Super Lark/Hawks that shows R1 & R2's using them.


quote:Originally posted by Swifster

Thanks Rich. I have my parts manuals on CD and didn't go into the Avanti book with the R3's & R4's [:I]

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

PlainBrownR2
03-23-2007, 11:30 PM
Correction: Yeah I believe six is the largest number of blades. I have the large one on the Lark. Great for cooling, but on the occaisional hot day the car does get a little warm when I'm at road speed from the size and number of spinning blades in the front.
Anyways, The larger fans were made to accomodate the demand of AC. Now the R3's viscous fans I believe are fairly easy to spot. Most of them are fairly small(HP reasons) and if I'm not mistake a nice shade of red.


1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
1950 Studebaker 2R5 with 170 turbocharged
[img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00003.jpg?t=1171152673[/img=left]
[img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00009.jpg?t=1171153019[/img=right]
[img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00002.jpg?t=1171153180[/img=left]
[img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00005.jpg?t=1171153370[/img=right]

showbizkid
03-24-2007, 01:22 AM
quote:Originally posted by StudeRich

Actually Nate it's the center "Nose" of the water pump hub that needs the deeper one on the HD water Pumps to mount a Viscous Drive unit & fan.

You're kidding! I got a viscous drive fan and clutch for my Lark. I also JUST installed a new standard water pump on the manifold... not the HD version. Do you mean I can't mount the new fan on the standard pump? What's the difference?


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

StudeRich
03-24-2007, 01:51 AM
Clark; try putting the center "nose" of the water pump hub into the recess in the viscous unit, if it goes ALL the way in, and seats it's OK. But I do NOT think that will happen, unless the reproduction Viscous units are a lot different than OEM.

Those VD units require an Avanti pump, and I have to be honest here, they are one of the ones (same MFG) that people have said have too much clearance between the Impeller and the pump body. I would think with proper re-assembly, you could push the Impeller all the way on the shaft! I hope! [:0][:0]

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

showbizkid
03-24-2007, 10:25 PM
Rich, I'm happy to report that you are wrong! I went out and test fit my viscous fan assembly to the water pump and it fit like a glove! Not that I'm happy when someone else is proven wrong, but I'm happy I don't have to replace my brand-new water pump http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/images/smilies/pbj.gif It's an original part, btw - I bought that one in the pic that 62Champ posted above :)

The chassis catalog confirms that the water pump pulley is different. The standard fan uses 536739, while the viscous fan uses 534735. This pulley is also used on all A/C cars. Of course, this is all for 63V and 64V - other years and sixes are different.

Now here's a question: The manual appears to suggest that the spacer used with the 4-blade fan is not needed with the viscous drive setup. Am I correct?


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

JDP
03-24-2007, 10:29 PM
No, not needed.

64 Commander 2 dr.
64 GT Hawk R2 clone
64 Daytona HT
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

N8N
03-24-2007, 10:35 PM
there's an easy explanation for the different pulley for A/C equipped cars... the A/C cars got the viscous drive fan! :)

I don't know what harm you would do by using the viscous drive with the standard pulley, but I would assume that it would speed up the water pump a little since the viscous drive will slow the fan blades. Thus it would be smaller than the stock, solid fan pulley. However, this is just a guess - and if you do end up swapping pulleys if you could post the part numbers and diameters I will try to keep track of them (I started to try to figure out all the pulley combinations because I was trying to piece together a working factory A/C setup, and it was making my head hurt.)

Speaking of which, it *is* important that you get the pulley diameters right if you use the silly factory belt routing for the A/C compressor, as both the A/C belt and the alternator belt drive the water pump. If you get a mismatch, one or both of those belts will suffer.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

showbizkid
03-25-2007, 02:46 AM
Nate, looking at your specs, it appears that the 4-blade fan is overdriven slightly with a 6.5" crankshaft pulley driving a 7.25" fan pulley. The spec for the viscous drive fan is almost exactly the opposite, with the 7.25" crank pulley driving a 6.25" fan pulley.

I assume the factory ascertained that they could drive the viscous setup slower since it was moving more air, or to lessen the resistance generated by the extra fan blades. I can't imagine it would do any harm to use the pulleys for the 4-blade fan with the viscous fan, though - a little more cooling capability, especially here in SoCal, is not a bad thing!


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

N8N
03-25-2007, 06:37 AM
Clark, I'm absolutely not sure that I even got the sizes with the right numbers... that bit is still a work in progress.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

CKOT
03-25-2007, 07:32 PM
I have a '63 Non-JT Hawk. I bought a 6 blade fan from Jimmijim and got the viscous unit striaght from SI. Bolted up without issue. Runs without issue, and not really that much louder (I have a 4 blade fan to start). Been on for 2 year. A bit of a bugger to install with the radiator in. Did help quite a bit on really hot days, which was my goal.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u317/chief120865/mystudes.jpg?t=1170876257
Chris Kot
'63 GT Hawk
'37 Dictator Rod Project