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bams50
06-03-2006, 08:47 PM
Mine needs M/C and W/C rebuild; plus linings came off shoes...

Had intended to just freshen stock brakes for now, and convert to dual M/C w/front disc eventually; but now I'm thinking the cost and effort of doing stock would be better applied to the conversion...

Question: Are conversions like Turner's available for my car, and are there any problems specific to my application I should know about?

I intend to call Turner next week, but wondered if any of you have any comments...?

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

mbstude
06-03-2006, 09:05 PM
Not sure, but I'd think the Turner kits will fit all 51-66 cars. From what I hear that are very good kits. (None of ours have discs, except for the 63 Hawk and 81 Avanti- both factory)

Matthew Burnette, the 16 year old Stude nut.
South Georgia Chapter
63 Daytona HT (project)
51 Stude dump truck (yes, I won the raffle)
52 Commander Starliner (basket case)

MANY more Studes in the family and a few parts cars
http://community.webshots.com/user/mbstude101
And here: http://community.webshots.com/user/mbstudepagetwo
And here too: http://photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos

bams50
06-04-2006, 10:42 AM
Thanks, Matthew!

Anyone have an idea what it would cost for rebuilt M/C, 2 W/Cs, and shoes or relines?

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

StudeDave57
06-04-2006, 11:39 AM
To answer your question, yes- Turner has what you need. I have not taken the leap yet, but 'Rosstude' has! Check your post in General Discussion, and follow his link. There are pictures of his car with the brakes installed. I'd drop him a line to see what he has to say...

[8D]

StudeDave
V/P San Diego County SDC
San Diego, Ca

'54 Commander 4dr
'57 Parkview (it's a 2dr wagon...)
'57 Commander 2dr
'57 Champion 2dr
'58 Packard sedan
'65 Cruiser

Roscomacaw
06-04-2006, 02:18 PM
Figure $45 bucks for relined shoes - more if you have to send them off to get redone. $40 bucks apiece for new wheel cylinders, $60 for a new master cylinder and at least $20 bucks apiece for new rubber lines (and you'd be FOOLISH not to change them in your refresh)

To do the rears as well, same price for the shoes (although local auto parts places will have REARS in stock as they interchange with some BrandX car.)and another 40 bucks each for new wheel cylinders and another 20 bucks for that one rear hose. Then everything's new!
I'd do the Turners myself - if I had the wherewithall.;) Ask Rosstude if the stock wheels clear the Turner setup. I can't remember if they do on the cars.:D

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Dan White
06-04-2006, 03:35 PM
The Steeltech and Turner setups work on all '51 to '64's as far as I know.

Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT

Roscomacaw
06-04-2006, 07:10 PM
<sigh>

Well, certainly, engineering and making your own D/B setup was much less arduous than using a propane torch or a grinder.

Heaven knows, if you've done any sort of work (besides a common tune-up) on your Stude, you still, quite likely couldn't master the dexterity of holding a two inch metal ring with a pair of pliers while you wrestle that terribly tricky, dangerous and cumbersome, self-lighting propane torch with your other hand![:0]
Don't DO THIS TASK if there's a puddle of gasoline on the floor or if you're bare-footed or wearing open footwear.[8] Serious injury or DEATH could result.

And a BENCH GRINDER!!! Listen, for the sake and welfare of your loved ones - PLEASE! - check with your life insurance agent before you put on your safety goggles and approach this beast![xx(] Caution! Sparks WILL fly.;) See prior warnings about gasoline and bare feet!

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Dick Steinkamp
06-04-2006, 07:39 PM
quote:Originally posted by sbca96

Before I made my own setup, I had decided on Steeltech's 12 inch front
disc setup, since unlike Turners, it sounded to be a true "bolt on".
You get the Turner one, better be good with a torch.;)

Read the instructions YOURSELF :

http://www.turnerbrake.com/instructions-2.dwt

Beware that the calipers must be modified to fit Turners bracket, and
so do the pads each time you swap them. If you drive your car as a
daily driver this might be a problem (out of principle it was for me)
if you have a trailer/garage queen, then Turner's will be fine. I did
not like having to "marry" Jim Turner for replacement parts in the
future, its great business sense to force people to come back to just
buy pads though![:I] I could have got that from the stock brakes![B)]



I'm missing something here. Turner's instructions look complete and fairly simple (even for us amatures). I don't see a lot of talent needed to heat the ring and grind off the taps on the calipers (and maybe the brake wear indicator on the pads). Probably even I could do it :). I'm also missing why you would have to get "married to Turner" for replacement pads. Sound like stock GM pads to me.

Is there more to it than the instructions indicate?



http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

StudeDave57
06-04-2006, 08:11 PM
Sorry everyone, didn't mean to bring up the 'Battle of the Disc Brake Conversions' again~ :( :( [:0] [B)] [V] ;)
I did forget to mention, Ross had those non-stock F@#D wheels (as found in the ads in the back of TW) on the car before he put the Turners on... ;) [^] :)
But I thought that was one of the benifits of Turners' set up, or was it that you had to use 'disc' wheels from late model Studes? I forget!!!

[8D]

StudeDave
V/P San Diego County SDC
San Diego, Ca

'54 Commander 4dr
'57 Parkview (it's a 2dr wagon...)
'57 Commander 2dr
'57 Champion 2dr
'58 Packard sedan
'65 Cruiser

bams50
06-04-2006, 08:12 PM
Interesting... and thanks! After Ialk to Mr. Turner, I'll let you know if we're engaged or not...

Stay tuned!!

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

DEEPNHOCK
06-04-2006, 08:26 PM
Dick,
You aren't reading anything into anything.
SBCA96 has a big chip on his shoulder and thinks that his setup is the nirvana setup and that anything else is crap.
He has slammed Jim Turner's setup before, but has never bought one, installed one, or even looked at one (in person) for all I know...
But he continues to go on various forums and slam a competent Stude supplier based on what he has read on websites and magazines.
Here, on this thread, he goes off again.
At least he is consistant.
I think Jim Turner is correct in taking the high road and not dealing with baiting like this. But comments like this could affect a prospective customer...and with no good reason, other than jealousy (in my opinion)...
SBCA96... Get a new act.
And, no... No one is picking on you.
I am disagreeing with your tactic and am telling you so to your face (if that is possible on a forum)...
You keep ressurecting this line of crap, and it is not getting any better, and you are not adding anything new to the conversation.

When you do perfect your product(s) to compete with a class Stude vendor (or vendors), remember what you have said here (and on other forums)....
It may well come back to bite you on the proverbial ass....

I am not going to stand by idly and watch people (like SBCA96) come onto a newsgroup repeatedly and repeat things like this..... Jim Turner and Dave Levesque are not getting rich doing this, and their customers are not trying to get something for nothing (but they would if they could;))
The list of satisfied customers for their products is in the thousands, and your startup project has yet to get to prototype number two. I wish you well on your project, but you are sewing seeds of ill will faster than a 90 foot John Deer XP planter...
http://www.deere.com/en_US/ProductCatalog/FR/media/images/series/New_DB_Planters-JD_120281V_main_image.jpg
Jeff[8D]




quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp
I'm missing something here. Turner's instructions look complete and fairly simple (even for us amatures). I don't see a lot of talent needed to heat the ring and grind off the taps on the calipers (and maybe the brake wear indicator on the pads). Probably even I could do it :). I'm also missing why you would have to get "married to Turner" for replacement pads. Sound like stock GM pads to me.
Is there more to it than the instructions indicate?

Dan White
06-04-2006, 08:40 PM
Anymore everytime there is a disk brake question comes up it seems there is a pissing contest sooner or later. From now on can't we just say there are two main source for '51 to '64 Stude front disk brakes, Steeltech and Turner contact them for questions and information. Both seem to have similar stuff and maybe one is better than the other. I have not sampled both only one and that is all I can comment on, but this back and forth stuff is just not helpful to those that ask the questions.

Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT

DEEPNHOCK
06-04-2006, 08:44 PM
Dan, You are absolutely right.
There are two good suppliers.
Someday there might well be three or four.
But it is not proper for someone to jump on to a forum and slam the only suppliers we have WITHOUT offering a better solution that is available right now. New Studebaker owners will get the wrong impression about what is available, and may well not take advantage of improving their brake system, due to comments put out here without proper proof or vetting.
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by Dan White

Anymore everytime there is a disk brake question comes up it seems there is a pissing contest sooner or later. From now on can't we just say there are two main source for '51 to '64 Stude front disk brakes, Steeltech and Turner contact them for questions and information. Both seem to have similar stuff and maybe one is better than the other. I have not sampled both only one and that is all I can comment on, but this back and forth stuff is just not helpful to those that ask the questions.

Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT

Dick Steinkamp
06-04-2006, 08:54 PM
quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK

http://www.deere.com/en_US/ProductCatalog/FR/media/images/series/New_DB_Planters-JD_120281V_main_image.jpg



That's one heckofa planter[:0]



http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Dan White
06-04-2006, 08:56 PM
It sure is a heck of a planter. When I was just old enough to ride the tractor my Grandpa and Dad used a 2 row job, took a long time to plant even a big field. Then we went to a 4 row, then 6 and my Dad just retired but he used a no-till job with I don't know how many boxes.

Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT

DEEPNHOCK
06-04-2006, 09:10 PM
It sure is. I was a kid growing up in the cornfields of Illinois and I thought I knew a lot about farming....until I went to visit my cousin in Saskatchewan. When I saw the combines that harvest the wheat up there I knew I had lived a sheltered life...
Jeff[8D]


quote:Originally posted by Dan White

It sure is a heck of a planter. When I was just old enough to ride the tractor my Grandpa and Dad used a 2 row job, took a long time to plant even a big field. Then we went to a 4 row, then 6 and my Dad just retired but he used a no-till job with I don't know how many boxes.

Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT

Guido
06-04-2006, 09:33 PM
Do you think that my Cockshutt 20 or Oliver 440 would be able to pull that rig? The wife has asked for a small garden plot and that outfit ought to get is sowed in no time.... We used to buy seed in 100 pound bags, it would take a 2 ton truck to load up those hoppers!

Guido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful"

1946 M-16 fire truck
1948 M-16 grain truck
1949 2R16A grain truck
1949 2R17A fire truck
1955 E-38 grain truck
1957 3E-40 flatbed
1961 6E-28 grain truck
1962 7E-13D 4x4 rack truck
1962 Champ pickup
1962 GT Hawk 4 speed
1964 Avanti R2 4 speed
1964 Cruiser
And various other "treasures"

Roscomacaw
06-04-2006, 09:48 PM
Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one tired of the repeated attacks on a respected vendor. While I don't get any commision or kickback (heck, I haven't talked to Jim for several years now! Not that i wouldn't, just haven't been in his good company!), I can say, from firsthand experience, that his stuff is well made and NOT any hassle to install.

Geez! Can we even SAY "Cockshutt" on this forum???[:0][}:)]:D

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

bams50
06-04-2006, 10:53 PM
Never fear, Jeff and group...

As I've said before, it's hard to "read" anyone from typed comments; but I read, follow, and contribute (where I can) to this forum every day... so you can get some kind of a feel for a person over the course of several posts...

I have read several of sbca96's, and have clearly seen many negative, critical, and/or confrontational comments. I don't know this person, so I couldn't make a judgement on his/her motives; but I do know that some folks have issues that really don't have anything to do with their targets; it's more a way of medicating their own problems! I don't know if that's true in this case; but while I do appreciate sbca96's effort, I will of course factor in the observed approach when reading what was written...

I participate in a few different forums; and every one I've ever seen has at least one chronic malcontent! I've learned to ignore them them when possible, refute them when necessary- as you've done!

Thank you all for your efforts to help thus far; I'll be contacting Turner about the kit, and will let you know how it goes!!

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

Mike Van Veghten
06-04-2006, 11:48 PM
For what it may be worth....no "real" bashing here, just my opinion.

I have had both Steeltech (Dave Levesque) and Turners kits.
As far as the rotor and caliper...both kits use the same parts, Ford rotor and Chevy caliper. Steeltech has the big and small rotor option. They (Turner, Dave L.) both require a spacer at the inner bearing.

As far as the bracketry.....D.L.'s brackets are very rough...but simple and get the job done fine. They need a little fitup help, but not a big deal.

Turner's brackets are very nicely manufactured. If you are building a show car, use his brackets. But in my opinion they are "[u]way</u>" too heavy. If you drive the car much, that bracket will go a long way in making the shocks and springs work much harder to keep the tires properly on the ground. They were made to stop a Mac/PeterBuilt truck. A real negitive is the second set of fasteners to hold two pieces of bracket together to form one. From a design stand point...not good. The fitup is a tad better than Daves but by no means perfect. This is more a function of the many castings that went through Studebaker in all those years. Not all are exactly the same.

Both will get the job done just fine. Turners kit offers steel braided Teflon brake lines and M.C brackets also.

My everyday Lark 2dr wagon has the Steeltech kit in front, I sold the Turner kit, I just finished removing a Steeltech kit from my 54 Conestoga (that I installed) this evening and installed my own set of brackets, Wilwood 4 piston calipers and Avanti (aftermarket) rotors. Will bleed the calipers in the next day or two after work, we'll see how it all works by next weekend. This is in an effort to remove approx. 20 lbs. per spindle. The Wilwood brake pad is only about 80% of the GM pad, but the overall piston size "is" the same...we'll see what that does to the overall brake power.
I'm not going road racing or much mountain driving...therefore I don't feel I need the heavy vented rotors. These big rotors were originally designed for 4200# to 4500# cars. The average Stude car (or 1/2 ton trucks) isn't even close to that.

Mike

sbca96
06-05-2006, 03:02 AM
.............

bams50
06-05-2006, 06:40 AM
Tom-

Just so you're clear on where I'm coming from:

I do not personally know anyone on this forum; so I know that any opinions have to be taken with a "grain of salt"; that is, I read the advice, put my own thought into it, and act from there. This is because unless you know a person, or can hear and see them in person, it's very difficult to get a feel for where they're coming from...

Where does that leave me in this instance? The answer is, I put forth a lot of time and effort reading and learning and researching about my subject (in this case, Studes)... and I have to assess the accuracy of ALL the info I glean from ALL sources; compare conflicting info with other sources, and see where that comes out. As a relatively new member of the Stude owner group, I come here with a totally objective viewpoint... and I say to you, with all due respect, that by and large your responses do come off as negative, or at least provocative! This makes folks automatically skeptical- and defensive- usually leading to the type of responses you sometimes get! It's easy to let it turn into a pi##ing contest; not so easy to resolve online...

As stated, I do not know you; and I do appreciate any constructive info you, and anyone else, have to offer; but I've been around long enough to know that there are unhappy/hurting people that get a little rush out of always being negative or critical... so I have to watch out for those types. I am not saying you are necessarily one of these; only that you can appear that way sometimes. Please don't consider anything I wrote as a personal attack; I am here for one reason, and one reason only: To learn about and discuss a specific make of car I'm interested in, and hopefully meet others with the same interest! In this hobby, I have reached out to others with similar interests, and felt snubbed; sometimes it feels like you're an intruder into some closed society! But I remember what my objective is, and push on... and have gotten to know a few really good folks!

I suggest you hang in there, consider what I've written, and maybe think about your approach a little... if not for people, do it for the Studes!!

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

sbca96
06-05-2006, 07:38 AM
..............

Roscomacaw
06-05-2006, 11:35 AM
sbca96 writes: "Negative Tom"

Well, there's a start towards confession!

Tom, beyond beating us over the head with your purported "bolt-on", "superior", braking system and your repeated berating of your percieved competition (" You get the Turner one, better be good with a torch")(its great business sense to force people to come back to just
buy pads though![:I]) - I don't recall seeing where you'd mentioned price, availability, and road test reviews (other than your own crowing).
I've seen on another forum where you lamented not being able to generate enough up-front orders to go forth with the manufacture of your brake setup.

These two observations would lead one to believe you're using this forum to promote your brake setup so you can justify laying out funds to manufacture it and make money doing so. I can't think of any other "vendors" that come here and push something -push it HARD, no less - (never mind that it's something tangible, that one could send a check for) with as much fervor as you are pushing your brakes and your superior ways here.

Heh - as if you could do this.... Stop and objectively read your usual signature paragraph:
"1963 Studebaker Avanti, 102,000, custom made brake brackets to mount 1998 Mustang GT 4 wheel disc brakes (soon to get 13" Cobra front brakes, 2003 Mustang Cobra 17" wheels, GM altenator, will be getting : 97 Camaro Z28 tan leather seats, 97 Camaro Z28 T-56 6-speed trans, Ported 'R3' style Avanti heads with stainless full flow valves, 'R3' 276 duration cam w/chrysler solid lifters, shortened push rods, aluminum cam gear, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires, waiting in the garage."

What message does that convey? [8]

Establish a website - promote your product there and sit back and wait for the checks to start rolling in. Tie it to the Studebaker web ring so we can all find it easily.

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

avantilover
06-05-2006, 06:26 PM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

sbca96 writes: "Negative Tom"

Well, there's a start towards confession!

Tom, beyond beating us over the head with your purported "bolt-on", "superior", braking system and your repeated berating of your percieved competition (" You get the Turner one, better be good with a torch")(its great business sense to force people to come back to just
buy pads though![:I]) - I don't recall seeing where you'd mentioned price, availability, and road test reviews (other than your own crowing).
I've seen on another forum where you lamented not being able to generate enough up-front orders to go forth with the manufacture of your brake setup.

These two observations would lead one to believe you're using this forum to promote your brake setup so you can justify laying out funds to manufacture it and make money doing so. I can't think of any other "vendors" that come here and push something -push it HARD, no less - (never mind that it's something tangible, that one could send a check for) with as much fervor as you are pushing your brakes and your superior ways here.

Heh - as if you could do this.... Stop and objectively read your usual signature paragraph:
"1963 Studebaker Avanti, 102,000, custom made brake brackets to mount 1998 Mustang GT 4 wheel disc brakes (soon to get 13" Cobra front brakes, 2003 Mustang Cobra 17" wheels, GM altenator, will be getting : 97 Camaro Z28 tan leather seats, 97 Camaro Z28 T-56 6-speed trans, Ported 'R3' style Avanti heads with stainless full flow valves, 'R3' 276 duration cam w/chrysler solid lifters, shortened push rods, aluminum cam gear, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires, waiting in the garage."

What message does that convey? [8]

Establish a website - promote your product there and sit back and wait for the checks to start rolling in. Tie it to the Studebaker web ring so we can all find it easily.

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

k
Perhaps Tom would be able to work with Turner and /or Steeltech as they are in business and may be able to assist or even adopt his system - he may even get royalties if it's patented.

There are many good inventions and concepts that never make it due to lack of funds to get it into production.

In any case cooperation is better, you'll get no help if you just criticize them, work "WITH" them.

I wish you all the best with your project:)

John Clements
Avantilover, your South Australian Studebaker lover!!!

BShaw
06-05-2006, 07:49 PM
Okay, everyone's had a chance to fire their shots. So, as the beat cop says, "Let's move along people. There's nothing to see here."

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h53/StudeRobert/Sickandtired.jpg

BShaw,Webmaster
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h53/StudeRobert/StudeWebService-small.gif
60 Hawk. 49 2R5, 39 Champion

DEEPNHOCK
06-05-2006, 09:48 PM
Jeff never started this...
He never even tried.
He just stood up for what is right and spoke out about what is wrong.
He also didn't go and erase all of his old post's.
He also will abide by the moderators' request to leave this alone.


quote:
I have. Quite a few times. But I am NOT a ****** vendor, regardless
of what Jeff keeps TRYING to state here. CAN YOU UNDERSTAND ENGLISH?

Rosstude
06-06-2006, 12:38 PM
Well guys and gals, I am at work, on break, so I must be brief.
I will avoid the discussion on the pros and cons of brake set upís and vendors. I will say I however that I appreacate the time and effort people have put into developing brake retrofit kit (s), it is no small task. I also will say I had an excellent experience with Turner brake, Jim personally provided outstanding tech support over the phone, and the kit went in as advertised. I have completed the installation of the front disks, and master cylinder kits on our 57 Provincial, and have been driving it for about 4 days now. I like it a lot, it is better than the drum setup, although not a HUGE difference from a properly setup drum set up (at least on this car). Bottom line, it is safer. The dual master cylinder provides improved safety features; the disks provide shorter stopping distance, fade resistance, etc.
I will provide a full report later this week, I even have pictures. Short version, the master cylinder is a tight fit, requiring a hole to be cut in a support gusset (as per Turner instructions outline) at the rear of the cylinder. The front disks bolted right on. I take brake installations very seriously, so I made some changes/ modifications to the front flex hose routing, and fabricated a reinforcement(most likely overkill) piece for the brake arm to master cylinder pivot bolt, and replaced all the tubing.I want to provide some feedback to Turner prior to posting a full report here.
I am very happy with the Turner set up. Bams50, will be glad to share any info I have, either here or via privet e-mail


Ross.
Riverside, Ca.
1957 Provincial X2
1958 Transtar
1961 Cruiser

bams50
06-06-2006, 10:37 PM
Thanks, Ross; as I go into this I certainly will hit you up with any queastions!

Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1