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View Full Version : Very strange! black knobs? White knobs?



Scott
05-22-2006, 10:17 AM
I noticed a while back that the radio knobs in my 1962 Hawk are black, but the push-buttons are all white. I thought I remembered that 1962 hawks were supposed to have white knobs, as well. I planned on trading the black ones for some white ones, but then I started looking at pictures of other GT hawks. EVERY SINGLE ONE with the original radio has black knobs! The original Studebaker accessory literature shows them as white. I thought white makes more sense, but the black, of course, matches the other knobs in the car. I find it extremely hard to believe that every car I've seen a picture of has had the white ones changed out for black ones. SO! Does anyone know what is it "supposed" to be? Did the factory use black ones and white ones, depending on the assembly crew's whim?[?]

Roscomacaw
05-22-2006, 11:04 AM
A quick check of the parts book reveals that the '62 Hawks had a knob part number ALL TO THEMSELVES. ;) That PROBABLY confirms your suspicions.:D

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Scott
05-22-2006, 11:28 AM
Mr. Biggs, I don't really understand your point. Maybe it's my head cold.

imported_n/a
05-22-2006, 01:19 PM
Maybe they were all originally white, but some of them turned black from being touched by greasy fingers. Does that sound reasonable? Seriously though, the Packebaker has white pushbuttons & white tuner/volume control knobs that are yellowed and cracked with age. The last clean, working radio of the same type went for 100+ on EBay. Mine has all new tubes& speakers. Since the rest of the dash knobs are black or chrome, I may use some black epoxy paint on the radio control knobs to make them look better. Not original, I know, but the Packebaker is a rescued car that many people would not bother with. Several of the vendors carry the nos white replacement knobs that fit quite a few years.

Roscomacaw
05-22-2006, 03:51 PM
My reasoning is that you've observed every 62 Hawk you've looked at with black knobs. Couple this with the fact that only ONE part number's listed for '62 GTs. If both black AND white knobs had been used, there'd be TWO part numbers listed. (The parts book doesn't tell what color a given part number knob is) So I'd think it a fairly safe assumption that only ONE color knob WAS used on '62 GTs and that one color was likely black.;)

Again, this is a case for writing a "judging points" manual to refer to on matters like this. There were points about a given model of Stude that were cut and dried - no two ways about it! Then there's other things were variance was almost the NORM over conformance.
But as time goes on, those who can testify to what's proper and what ain't (thru first-hand experience, ownership & observation), are passing from this life.[V] Then it'll be up to some "expert" (who just happens to own one of said model in question) to draw up hard, fast rules for future enthusiasts to follow.[}:)]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Scott
05-22-2006, 03:59 PM
OK, which do you think look better? I can't decide. I know black would be more practical because it doesn't obviously discolor. I can't think of any other year where Studebaker would have used knobs that did not match the color of the pushbuttons.

monomaniac
05-22-2006, 05:30 PM
Knobs and pushbuttons on the radio should be the same color. The radio could have been replaced at some point. In my 66 Cruiser I didn't have a radio but I had a spare 63 radio with white pushbuttons. I put the radio in and attached black 66 knobs. No one has noticed yet.

Roscomacaw
05-22-2006, 06:20 PM
Scott, you're right, of course. And so is monomaniac. It's QUITE likely that the radio in your Hawk was swapped at some point along the way. Studebaker WOULD NOT have used different colors on the knobs and pushbuttons. My earlier observations were focused on the KNOBS alone. It DOES make sense to me that they'd have used a color that would match the switch and control knobs. Black is probably what belongs there.;)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

N8N
05-22-2006, 06:21 PM
I believe that black knobs/white pushbuttons is correct. I bought a radio from a '62 Hawk to put in my '62 Lark and it was like that. It still had the original AC part number sticker on it and I am sure it was not a '63 radio because the speaker connection was different in '63. The '62 Larks used white knobs which is probably why the pushbuttons were white. AFAIK the only difference in the radios themselves was the knobs and brackets. In '63-64 the Hawks used white knobs on the dash switches so everything was rational again. The knobs should match the other dash switches, anyway.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Scott
05-22-2006, 09:11 PM
Well, I'm sure that all those photos I've seen couldn't have had the radios switched. I am 100% sure that the pushbuttons are supposed to be white and 90% sure that the knobs should also be white.

The April 1987 Turning Wheels article on the hawks shows white and white. I suppose it's possible that over the years black knobs were used to replace white or discolored white ones, but it just doesn't make sense that everyone would have done that. At least some of the more recent hawk pictures I've seen should have had white knobs.

It's a picky detail, but - darn it!- I'd like my car to be correct. Does anyone have a 1962 hawk out there with definitely original equipment that can shed light on this?

Scott
05-30-2006, 04:51 PM
I saw a 1962 hawk at a car show yesterday. I checked the radio. It had black knobs, too. What's going on?[:0]

Dan White
05-30-2006, 06:09 PM
From what I know when I asked this question several years ago. '62 Hawks have black knobs and '63/'64 have white, Not sure about the push botton on the radio.

Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT

Scott
05-30-2006, 09:28 PM
Thanks, Dan. I'd sure like to know the story behind this, if black knobs are correct. I wonder if the prototypes had white knobs, but then the guy ordering the knobs for the factory screwed up and ordered 20,000 black ones? Could be...

Scott
06-10-2006, 05:32 PM
Well, after looking at more pictures of existing 1962 Hawks I have come to the conclusion that the cars came with black radio knobs. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but apparently Studebaker, for probably the only time, did not match the color of the knobs to the pushbuttons on the radio.

I'm going to write a letter to Art to put in TW and see if I can get any feedback from Fred Fox, or people that own 62 hawks to see if my hypothesis is correct.

N8N
06-10-2006, 05:50 PM
I think it was more a matter of they didn't match the pushbuttons to the color of the knobs. All the other dash knobs on a '62 Hawk were black, after all.

It makes sense, if you think about it - a '62 Lark used white dash knobs, and was there really a good economic argument for using a different radio for the few Hawks (the lower volume model) that were ordered with pushbutton radios?

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel