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clayton63hawk
05-12-2006, 09:26 PM
could someone tell me if a automatic transmission from a 63 hawk fit into a 55 commander automatic 2dr coupe with the 224 motor. thanks

sbca96
05-12-2006, 10:33 PM
quote:Originally posted by clayton63hawk

could someone tell me if a automatic transmission from a 63 hawk fit into a 55 commander automatic 2dr coupe with the 224 motor. thanks


I am ASSUMING it will, but I just dont know for sure. Auto to auto
so the bolt length should be fine....

Tom

1963 Studebaker Avanti (http://hometown.aol.com/sbca96/images/63avanti.jpg), 102,000, custom made brake brackets to mount 1998 Mustang GT 4 wheel disc brakes (soon to get 13" Cobra front brakes, 2003 Mustang Cobra 17" wheels, GM altenator, will be getting : 97 Camaro Z28 tan leather seats, 97 Camaro Z28 T-56 6-speed trans, Ported 'R3' style Avanti heads with stainless full flow valves, 'R3' 276 duration cam w/chrysler solid lifters, shortened push rods, aluminum cam gear, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires, waiting in the garage.

gordr
05-12-2006, 11:14 PM
quote:Originally posted by clayton63hawk

could someone tell me if a automatic transmission from a 63 hawk fit into a 55 commander automatic 2dr coupe with the 224 motor. thanks


Bolt-in replacement? In a word, no. The '55 is a short-tail transmission with a yoke on the back, designed to mate up with the 2-piece driveshaft as used up to '57. The '63 has a long tailshaft, designed to accept the slip yoke on the front of a one-piece driveshaft. Also, the rubber mounts differ considerably between the two trannies, and I expect the cross-members differ as well. And there is likely some difference in the shift and TV linkage, too.

Could you make it work? Yes, providing you change the driveshaft, tranny cross-member, and use the later-model linkage. Might have to massage the floor a little to accept the one-piece driveshaft.

Remember, they are 2 completely different transmissions.

I have a complete power train from a '55 President for sale if you need a tranny, but please don't think I'm trying to discourage you from doing the swap simply because I have a tranny for sale.

Really, the '55 tranny is the better of the two, and it is an actual Studebaker design. The later Flightomatic, while a sturdy beast, is essentially a generic Warner Gear tranny similar to those used in some Fords and Ramblers.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

JDP
05-13-2006, 12:07 AM
N8's 55 has a late Hawk 289 with a Flite-0-Matic installed with a one piece drive shaft, he can help.

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
Studebaker News Group
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.studebaker
64 Daytona HT
64 R2 4 speed Challenger
63 R2 4 speed GT Black
63 R2 4 speed GT White
63 GT Hawk
63 Avanti
62 Daytona HT
53 Coupe

N8N
05-13-2006, 06:58 AM
yup, it is pretty much a bolt in, EXCEPT...

1) you will need to convert the car to 12V as the ring gear on the FOM torque converter only mates with a 12V starter. Alternately Jim Turner can tell you exactly how to modify a 6V starter to accept a 12V Bendix.

2) You have to cut the driveshaft support crossmember out and use a one piece driveshaft from a Hawk with FOM. Alternately you could use a '56 or '57 FOM with corresponding driveshaft.

3) You will probably have a clearance problem with the passenger side exhaust. I replaced the headpipe and main exhaust pipe on the pass. side with one from a later Hawk to clear the dipstick tube for the FOM.

4) You will need a one piece shift rod for the FOM, unfortunately for some reason a Hawk one is too short, I took a LArk one, straightened it, and rebent it to match the Hawk one, it gave me the extra length I needed. I guess the diff. is in the early steering column.

5) Not sure, but you may need a bellcrank from a Hawk with FOM to properly match up the throttle pressure linkage. One from a Lark will not work, unless you mangle the floor for clearance of the gas pedal rod.

6) if you cut out the center crossmember you will need to make a new mounting point for the parking brake return spring. This is a very important part; without it, your parking brake can stick applied and this is obviously bad. (BTDT)

7) My car had a vibration issue from the driveshaft until I got some pinion angle shims. Then when I replaced all the motor mounts the vibration came back and I took the shims out. I did use the R3 style front mounts, maybe that changed the angle of the tailshaft enough that it corrected for whatever misalignment there was.

Personally, I'd have the DG rebuilt, but that's just me. The dealbreaker for me is cutting the crossmember; I don't have the intestinal fortitude to do that to a nice car. The rest of the mods are all bolt ons pretty much and therefore reversible. Fortunately someone already cut the crossmember out of my car so I don't feel bad cutting it up more for a 4-speed.

good luck,

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

clayton63hawk
05-13-2006, 02:24 PM
Thanks to everyone who replied. My father has the 55 and I have the 63. When I bought the 63 I picked up a parts car. It still had the complete drive train and to my surprise, when I got it home there was another tranny in the trunk. My parents live in Florida about an hour and a half south of Gainsville and forty minutes west of St. Augustine. I've driven the car and the tranny seems to shift fine but the seals leak. My father took it to Amico transmission and they told him it would be $950 to do the seals and $1700 to do a rebuild if it needed it. Do these prices seem right or does anyone know someone in that area who could help them out at a fair price. Thanks again.

Alan
05-13-2006, 02:47 PM
The prices are way out. 2-3 times what they should be.

Roscomacaw
05-13-2006, 06:43 PM
I think Alan misunderstands you. Those prices actually sound a bit cheap for the overhaul of the Studebaker automatic. Frankly, I doubt an Aamco transmission place COULD overhaul one of these as so VERY FEW modern-day tranny techs have ever even SEEN one, let alone been into one.
Usually, these chain tranny shops won't even consider doing an old unit like this because they worry about warranty promises over something they consider obsolete![xx(]

There's a couple of shops in California that will take on one of the Studebaker Automatics (not the FOMs) and I've heard $2500 is about the going rate and that doesn't include removal or reinstallation either![:0]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

N8N
05-13-2006, 07:07 PM
I don't see why you couldn't do a seal job yourself, assuming you're capable of R&Ring the trans. Does it give any indication that it needs any other work?

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

sbca96
05-13-2006, 07:32 PM
quote:Originally posted by clayton63hawk
I've driven the car and the tranny seems to shift fine but the seals leak.

Jack the car up, and torque the pan to the specified torque, cross
tightening from side to side front to rear until you do all the bolts.
Add one can of "TransX" from your local auto parts store. Drive the
car around for about 5 to 10 miles. Leaks should be gone. Its the
best 10 bucks you can spend IF it solves the problem. I have a 78
Camaro with a TH350 trans which was leaking fluid so bad that my wifes
father had to drain the drip pan weekly (it wasnt even DRIVEN!). The
reason it WASNT driven is because it slipped so bad. A friend had
suggested the TransX. I was skepitcal! I did the above, and my wife
drove the car Northridge to North Santa Barbara County - 150 miles!
She said by the time she got to the freeway it was shifting "normal".
Its been over 3 years since we brought it home, still doesnt leak,
and it still is drivable when needed. Has 150,000 on it. Go figure.

Tom

Alan
05-13-2006, 07:56 PM
It's not that I didn't understand Mr. Biggs. It is just that I have been doing my own work for so long and have a transmission parts shoop that I have been doing business with for years that I bought seals for my 63 Flight-o for $35 and put them in myself in a weekend the job sounded expensive but I just went by an AAMCO and saw that they charge $64 an hour for shop labor and it gave me what felt like a alum enema.

Roscomacaw
05-13-2006, 09:45 PM
Alan, I agree with you that labor is out of sight anymore.:( I know I can still get a Flight-o-matic overhauled for about 4 to 500 bucks out this way. That's if I do the removal and reinstallation.

As Nate says - you could probably "reseal" one of these DGs by yourself - IF - you were willing to tackle it and all that goes with such a job. People think that "seals" involve all kinds of such INSIDE a tranny, but "seals" (to a tranny guy) mean the front & rear lip seals, maybe the shift lever O-rings and a pan gasket. That anyone CAN do if their willing to wrestle that beast out of the car and do themselves.[xx(]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

mbstude
05-13-2006, 09:56 PM
quote:My parents live in Florida about an hour and a half south of Gainsville and forty minutes west of St. Augustine.

Were you at the Zome Meet in Gainesville a couple of weeks ago?

Matthew Burnette, the 16 year old Stude nut.
South Georgia Chapter
63 Daytona HT (project)
51 Stude dump truck (yes, I won the raffle)
52 Commander Starliner (basket case)

MANY more Studes in the family and a few parts cars
http://community.webshots.com/user/mbstude101
And here: http://community.webshots.com/user/mbstudepagetwo

sbca96
05-14-2006, 03:30 AM
Oh .. I forgot to mention that those quotes seem about right, I am
dealing right now with my wifes 95 Camaro Z28 not wanting to shift to
3rd gear. It doesnt slip, it wont SHIFT. The trans was rebuilt two
years ago and has 39k on it. The shops answer? Rebuild it. I asked
what was wrong with it, they dont know, but a rebuild will fix it. I
had it towed home. They wanted 1400 bucks JUST to start a rebuild.
I payed almost 2000 for the last one. I figure I can do it myself &
screw it up, and have it last 39k, so why pay someone else to do that?

Tom

stude freak
05-14-2006, 08:22 AM
Yall need to git ya werk dun in mississippi.ya can git a 350 turbo rebuilt here fo 450 bucks n they do tha removal n will even put it back in n road tests it fer ya.:D;)lol little redneck humor there. Really theres a buddy of mine that has a tranny shop that what he charges to do a 350 /400 turbo , most standard fords just $500 because there parts are more costly.Hes been doing trans work since the early 60s. My dad used him when i was in high school and he has two sons that help him now.now theres a guy in our car club that has a chain tranny business n they charge $1,750 to do the same thing and only has a 6 month guarantee.If its only the front and rear seals get a buddy n a trans jack n you can do them on a saturday .

ROADRACELARK
05-14-2006, 09:15 AM
While you've got the tranny out, take an extra 20 min. and replace the front pump bushing. 4 bolts & 2 screws and you have it off AND apart.
I've seen it happen too many times.... the pump lip seal gets replaced, no more oil leak. 3 weeks...1 month later, another oil leak. Back out with the tranny. Front pump seal pouring. BTDT! Don't pass up the chance,,,very simple task. SI has them or a local transmission parts supplier will have them. WELL worth the small extra effort. Most transmission shops will not replace this bushing or the tail housing bushing, (where the drive shaft plugs in) unless you tell them to do so.
These parts are not included in a "re-seal" kit. They are sold separatly.
Dan Miller

ROADRACELARK
05-14-2006, 11:41 AM
OBTW, the previous thread applies to the Flight-o-matic not the Detroit Gear Automatic. Sorry for any confusion.
DM

sbca96
05-14-2006, 09:06 PM
Try the "TransX" before you remove anything. You might be pleasently
surprised .. retorquing the pan is worth while, but its VERY important
to NOT over tighten.

Tom

60Lark
05-17-2006, 01:34 AM
I had my Flight-O-Matic rebuilt at a local tranny shop here in the St. Louis area, about 3years ago for $750 The shop owner started working for Rambler dealership right out of high school, he says he cut his teeth on the Rambler Flash-O-Matic tranny and they are basically the same as the Flight-O-Matic

Studebaker Fever
60 Lark
51 Champion
Phil

rockne10
05-17-2006, 10:22 PM
It sounds like all you need is the seals. Don't break it if it doesn't need fixed.

If it needs rebuilt, the key is to find an experienced transmission man that operates his own shop and remembers those units. They won't intimidate him.
I talked to an AAMCO shop a number of years back and the manager wasn't too keen on the task and didn't think they could get a kit for my DG200.
I knew one of his technicians and when I talked to him he said if I could find a kit, he would do it at home.

In 1999 Fatsco had the kits for $322.88 plus bands for $54-$75. Don't know what they are now. If it needs done, be resourceful.
The number I had then for Fatsco was 1-800-524-0485.

sbca96
06-07-2006, 01:27 AM
How did the "TransX" work out?:D

Tom