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dclewallen
05-11-2006, 06:02 PM
During the paint and body work on my 53 Starliner the engines going to be pulled. This is a good chance to do a head swap [later, #535976, and manifolds in place of the 232 stuff]. Is there anything different about the Studebaker heads that I should know about before I turn them over to my FLAPS for a valve job? What are the best choice of valve stem seals of recent manufacture? Thanks for any and all help.

Darryl C. Lewallen

StudeRich
05-11-2006, 07:58 PM
Darryl; I have not personally tried that one, I have put a new '57 Packard Clipper 289 dual exhaust system on my '54 Land Cruiser and that dual, larger system really improved the performance of the little 232.
I would think you'd have problems with the extra CC's in the combustion chamber leaking compression in the gasket gap (and less compression) using the larger 259 gasket, it also has a different shape. If you bore it out to a 259 3 9/16", you would not have those problems, should work fine. It may be cheaper to just use a 259!
The 535976 head is a 7.0 -1 Truck head, you will lose a lot of horsepower by not using the very common '57-'60 537555 casting # 8.5 to 1 head with the head gasket gap lowering it even more. Be sure to use at least 2in. if not 2 1/4in. dual pipes all the way back.
There is much controversy about the valve seals, actually the stock Stude. umbrella ones are the seal of choice for many GM car owners that had O rings! Some people have complained about the Perfect Circle teflon seals that have to have expensive machining done to the valve guides to use them, because they run the valves too dry & cause wear. Other people have tried the Chev. Vega 4 cyl. high temp seals and liked them. I think you could also use '86 T-Bird 2.3L 4 cyl. Turbo Coupe seals, they are for very high temp. use and should last longer.
You will find, that there will be several opinions given to all your questions.
Hope this helps, Rich.



quote:Originally posted by dclewallen

During the paint and body work on my 53 Starliner the engines going to be pulled. This is a good chance to do a head swap [later, #535976, and manifolds in place of the 232 stuff]. Is there anything different about the Studebaker heads that I should know about before I turn them over to my FLAPS for a valve job? What are the best choice of valve stem seals of recent manufacture? Thanks for any and all help.

Darryl C. Lewallen


StudeRich
Ferndale, WA

whacker
05-11-2006, 08:36 PM
While you have those heads apart, I suggest you have them put in a set of Ferd 289-302 intake valves, and the stock Stude exhaust valves. The length on the Furd valves is within .030 of the Stude valve length, and they are much bigger. That lets you use the stock valve train, as opposed to the Chebby valve conversion that requires major mods to the pushrods. If you also polish out the intake passages and gasket match the heads to the intake manifold, you can really wake up that 232! Just be careful that the valves clear the bore corners, you may have to relieve the corners of the cylinder bores a little with a die grinder. I've done this mod on my 51 commander and the difference is astounding! Oh yeah, when you put it back together use the stock cam unless you plan to supercharge.

dclewallen
05-12-2006, 07:36 PM
According to the Potomac Stude. site the 537555 heads have a chamber volume of 54.5cc and give a compression ratio of 8.oo:1 while the 535976 heads that I"ve got have a similar chamber volume of 56.5cc and a compression ratio of 7.50:1 [listed as being used in 57 Golden Hawks]. I thought all Stude. heads with the exception of the early like the 232 and the very late high performance stuff were all basically the same with the differences in compression ratios handled with different piston designs. Thanks,

Darryl C. Lewallen

gordr
05-12-2006, 08:30 PM
quote:Originally posted by dclewallen

According to the Potomac Stude. site the 537555 heads have a chamber volume of 54.5cc and give a compression ratio of 8.oo:1 while the 535976 heads that I"ve got have a similar chamber volume of 56.5cc and a compression ratio of 7.50:1 [listed as being used in 57 Golden Hawks]. I thought all Stude. heads with the exception of the early like the 232 and the very late high performance stuff were all basically the same with the differences in compression ratios handled with different piston designs. Thanks,

Darryl C. Lewallen


A head that yields a compression ratio of 7.5 to 1 on a 289, will yield a lower C.R. on a 259 or a 232, all other things being equal. Since 289s usually have a dished piston, while the 259s have a flat-top piston, the difference in C.R. between 259 and 289 is smaller than it would be if the 289 had a flat-top piston. IIRC, the dish size on the 289 was chosen to make the C.R. of both 259 and 289 nearly the same.

C.R. = total cylinder volume at BDC / total cylinder volume at TDC

Breaking down the terms of this equation, total cylinder volume at BDC= chamber volume + piston dish volume + pi (r^2)xH, where H= stroke, and r is the radius of the bore. Total cylinder volume at TDC= chamber volume + piston dish volume, period. If the piston did not come all the way to the top of the bore at TDC, there would be a pi (r^2)xh term for the volume of that little increment of cylinder, but AFAIK, all stock Stude engines have the piston right at the top of the bore at TDC.

Going back to the original formula, one can see that the denominator of the ratio is almost entirely a function of the combustion chamber size, except in the case of a 289 with dished pistons. The numerator, however, is very dependent on both bore and stroke.

Hope this helps.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

dclewallen
05-13-2006, 09:31 AM
I have a 232 [ I plan on keeping that displacement for now] and I don't know but am assuming it has flat top pistons? How do I determine total cylinder volume at BDC on this engine in order to use this formula? Whacker, On head gaskets, What application head gaskets did you used on your 232, before boring but using the 259 heads [232 or 259]? How long have the current composition head gaskets been on your engine? What do you atribute the blown head gaskets to, using the metal gaskets? Trying to determine which type is best. Thanks for all the information.

Darryl C. Lewallen

whacker
05-13-2006, 03:32 PM
Yes, the 232 has flat top pistons. I used the metal head gaskets with my 232 and 259 head combination. I think I blew the gasket because they weren't sealed properly. I haven't had a lot of luck sealing the metal gaskets, maybe I use too much or to little gasket sealer. When I redid it with the rebore to 259, I had the heads planed another .020 mostly to resquare them up, then I used the composition gaskets. I haven't had any problems since. That was two years ago now.

dclewallen
05-13-2006, 06:32 PM
Whaker, What I meant was when I go to order the head gaskets for my 232 with 259 heads what displacement gasket do I ask for? I'm sure this is a dumb question but if you don't ask you'll never know. Thanks again

Darryl C. Lewallen

whacker
05-13-2006, 07:31 PM
Darryl, I have used the 259 gaskets. I suppose you could use the 232 gaskets, but you would have to be sure they didn't touch the valves. You may have to trim a little off in the valve area.

Chicken Hawk
05-14-2006, 12:16 PM
quote:Originally posted by dclewallen

According to the Potomac Stude. site the 537555 heads have a chamber volume of 54.5cc and give a compression ratio of 8.oo:1 while the 535976 heads that I"ve got have a similar chamber volume of 56.5cc and a compression ratio of 7.50:1 [listed as being used in 57 Golden Hawks]. I thought all Stude. heads with the exception of the early like the 232 and the very late high performance stuff were all basically the same with the differences in compression ratios handled with different piston designs. Thanks,

Darryl C. Lewallen


According to factory specs the 7.0 232 heads (used in '51 through '53) hold 56.72 cc's. The deck is .109" (+ or - .013") which comes out to almost 16 cc's. The head gasket is almost 7 cc's. The total volume for the 7.0 compression is 79.4 cc's.

The '54 heads were 7.5 to 1 (and were an option on the earlier 232's)and those heads are 50.61 cc's and the total volume is 73.3 cc's.

The 535976 heads should be milled about .060" to keep the compression decent when putting them on a 232.

I have a set of the 7.0 and also a set of the 7.5 232 heads if anyone is interested--real CHEAP! Also a 232 block fairly complete (been setting in the barn for several years)and a bare block. Anyone living close enough to central Indiana to pick them up can get a real deal.

Ted

imported_n/a
05-16-2006, 10:44 PM
All-steel head gaskets are thinner and will yield an increase in compression ratio. It is strongly recommended that you use them with a cylinder head that has been resurfaced, and a block with a true surface. Retorqueing the head bolts after the engine has been run awhile is essential. The benefit of the thicker composition(coated) head gaskets most sets supply is better sealing on a block/head that is something less than perfect, and eliminates the need for retorquing. I've never used any sealant on my brand "C" engines, just on the headbolt threads to prevent coolant seepage. We used to spray aluminum paint on our steel gaskets right before installing them, though. Whether it actually helped is questionable.

dclewallen
05-17-2006, 04:30 PM
A mechanic friend also told me about the use of the steel gaskets [decked block and machined heads]. Iv'e also heard about the steel gaskets as being harder to seal. Any truth to that? Though I'm planning to shave the heads I'm not going to do anything to the deck surface. What would be the right choice in this case? I'm leanig toward the composite type gasket. I checked my local NAPA store yesterday about some head gaskets for my Stude. and no they didn't even raise an eyebrow. They looked, had several other small gaskets but no head gaskets. Who is the best choice for a fresh set of head gaskets for a Stude. V-8? Thanks,

Darryl C. Lewallen

Alan
05-17-2006, 06:54 PM
The pistions in the early (51-54) 232 sat .040 down in the hole and if you had a block that had never been surfaced it might be another .010-.020" down. I ran into that problem with Silv-O-lite pistons back in the early 60's when they were on Pacific Ave. in Vernon. I took a set of pistons to the owner of the company and chewed his butt. But he pulled the specs and said that's what Stude calls out for.