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54-61-62
03-20-2007, 08:20 PM
Okay,

Per this following post, I took the suggestion and went and got myself a late 70's Honda CVCC alternator for my 64 daytona.
http://studebakerdriversclub.com/sdc_forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8919

My question is exactly what is wired to what since there is more terminals on the Honda alternator....the tech page mentioned in the above thread says something about this but does not address what exactly goes where!

Here is the Honda alternator on my 64, sure fits and looks nice! Can somebody tell me the correct wiring as I really don't want to fry my voltage regulator!

Thanks
Kent

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h117/deliriouskenny/alt.jpg

StudeRich
03-20-2007, 08:29 PM
Kent; I believe Tom was saying that the medium sized wire with the flat spade connector (Regulator "Field" Term.) goes on the "F" terminal on his configuration of Honda unit, but I see yours looks a bit different. It was however the one of the two side-by side Terms. closest to the large lugged, insulated Power Term. The smallest wire (ground) goes under one of those case grounded NUTS.

I can see that your Alternator is mounted on the Left side, so we are dealing with a OHV "6" Cyl. here, same Alt. and Reg. as the more common V-8.

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

showbizkid
03-20-2007, 09:28 PM
Taken from the text on Bob Johnstone's site:

"Ground wire to altenator chassis (there are a few bolts on back)"

"Power lead to power terminal"

"Field slip on connector to "F" terminal"


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

64V-K7
03-21-2007, 06:28 AM
Do you know what the amperage is on the Honda alternator?

Bob Johnstone
http://www.studebaker-info.org/7168422/sig2.jpg

showbizkid
03-21-2007, 08:56 AM
Specs on the NAPA site say 35 amps.


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

54-61-62
03-21-2007, 11:51 AM
I wired it as per Tom's and stude rich's reccommendation and it smoked the wiring .....GRRRRRR...now I got a regulator to replace and wiring too....*&*%^%$#$%@$#@*&^^%$^%$#$%

Any thoughts here from somebody who actually did this conversion?

Kent

studeclunker
03-21-2007, 05:35 PM
Rather than using another Honda, why not go with one of the Delco-Remys that are commonly used? I used a NAPA pro series 66287 in my wagon with no troubles. Everything is clearly labeled on the back of the Alternator. So, even for dummies like me, it's easy to wire up.

Where I get into trouble, is when I try to use an alternator on a system that had a generator or, in the case of Mr. Ed, put in a large alternator when there was a much smaller unit originally.

I have a front wiring harness for a '64 V8 that's practically new. Would you like to have it?

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/december%2006/HPIM0234.jpg http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/56%20Parkview%20Wagon/56wagonleftfrontclipped-1.jpg
Home of the famous Mr. Ed!
Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

StudeRich
03-21-2007, 05:43 PM
WOW, that's not good, sounds like you grounded the large Hot wire instead of the small (usually red) 16 Ga. ground wire. Sorry! Maybe I should have reminded you to test each wire for continuity, power or ground first.

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

54-61-62
03-21-2007, 09:23 PM
I'm not sure exactly what happened....I hooked up the wiring just like Tom's picture - I'll give an update tomorrow.

Besides that Honda alternator what is a bolt on fit to replace the 63-64 prestolite without fabricating a bracket?

Kent

P.S. Sorry if I sounded gruff after my wiring harness got smoked. I don't have any hard feelings at anyone. Probally my own poor wiring. Wiring is my "achilles heal" so to speak.

StudeRich
03-21-2007, 10:03 PM
I think it would be good to know if everything is OK at the Regulator. Is it a small black square box with the forward terminal for a lugged wire (may be marked "FLD" and the aft. one a slide-on flat spade term. (may be marked "IGN")?

If that is OK then move on to the wires, the color code (color tracer stripe) & diameter is different on each and should match the Alt. The small 16GA. (may be red) wire goes under the mounting base screw to ground and must match same on Alt.

If you email me with address, I will send you a new Electronic Voltage Regular N/C.

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

sbca96
03-22-2007, 02:01 AM
I used this setup on my Hawk for years, that text was based on how
I wired it. I can not explain why it didnt work. I will be quite
interested in what you find out though. Sorry about your wiring.[:0]

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/honda_alt_swap/Honda_CVCC_Alt_4_Stude.004.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/honda_alt_swap/Honda_CVCC_Alt_4_Stude.009.jpg

Tom

'63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: 97 Z28 T-56 6-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires

bige
03-22-2007, 01:52 PM
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/AvantiR2/alternator004Medium.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/AvantiR2/avnatiglamour007Medium.jpg
Top picture is Autolite? or Nippondenso on my car, bottom is an original Prestolite.

Some discussion on this on another thread. This is a rebuilt, Marked Autolite ALC-5001, but it may be a remanufactured Nippondenso rebuilt by Autolite. Application is 74 Toyota Corona or Corolla. 45 Amps. Alterations necessary were retap for SAE bolt on hold down, or use a metric as is, and open up the big hole to accommodate the larger SAE bolt on the bottom. Wiring is Identical and have used it both with std. regulator and a Dave T electronic. 10 years plus and no regrets.

ErnieR

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/AvantiR2/avnatiglamour007.jpg

64V-K7
03-22-2007, 05:40 PM
My apologies if the information on my website was in error, but I no longer have the email address of the source. I put a notice on the file about your experience.

When I read your post yesterday, I contacted a known authority on Honda and Acura stuff. I used this guy for many years while I owned my Acura. It so happens though, that when I asked him about the 70's Honda alternator, his reply indicated that he isn't OLD ENOUGH TO KNOW ABOUT THEM. (hmmmm) I thought he could have read the schematic from memory, but 'no cigar'



Bob Johnstone
http://www.studebaker-info.org/7168422/sig2.jpg

sbca96
03-22-2007, 07:37 PM
Bob, as I mentioned on the previous two threads that the Honda alt was
brought up in, I am "Tom". I posted that info on the Alt.Studebaker
newsgroup some years ago. I found the alt after going through many
books at the local parts house. We even bought one for my brothers
'64 Daytona a few years later, he picked it up in Detroit, Michigan.
The wiring was done the same as mine, and there wasnt an issue.

This is why I said I dont have an answer why it didnt work, though as
it was mentioned that alt in his picture looks different than mine.

The GM alt in an R1 Avanti was also my post. I think you have a few
other posts on your site I made. I still have the same EMail address:

SBCA96@aol.com

"The Honda one I mentioned is a direct bolt on with no needed modifications to
car or altenator. The wiring is easy also.

Ground wire to altenator chassis (there are a few bolts on back)

Power lead to power terminal

Field slip on connector to "F" terminal

There are two other terminals not used on a Studebaker. The Honda altenator
used a dual amp VR. So it had a high side and a low side. We are only
interested in the high side or 35 amp. Which is the "F" terminal.

Carquest part number RE 14184

OEM# 021000-5410 31100-657-024

76-79 Honda CVCC or Civic

35 amp"

Tom

54-61-62
03-22-2007, 09:05 PM
Well, I took the 78 Honda Alternator off the Lark and took it down to a local rebuilding shop...turns out the quote "remanufactured" alternator I got from autozone had a couple insulatings washers left out, so hence it could never work and why it burned out my wiring. After putting the the insulators it works nice. I cobbled up my wiring harness for the time being. My regulator is fried but we will cross that step when I get there.

So, the wiring instructions were correct, but this was a faulty rebuilt I got.

Kent

sbca96
03-23-2007, 03:00 AM
Thats both good and bad to hear, good that my info was correct, and
bad because you toasted stuff in the process. The regulator should
be the standard Chrysler two post box. I havent priced them lately,
but they were pretty cheap and plentiful back-in-the-day.

Tom

Chucks Stude
03-23-2007, 06:28 AM
Autozone rebuilt equipment scares me. I have not had good success with their stuff. It must be being done by the lowest bidder......

tstclr
03-23-2007, 11:03 AM
You should have hit them up for damage to your wiring harness!
Todd


63 Lark 2dr Sedan
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c351/tstclr/larkavitar.jpg

sbca96
03-23-2007, 11:14 AM
I currently have an Autozone alt on my 1995 Impala SS, its been on for
10k miles or more (didnt make note). Its worked fine - no problems.

They do carry a couple different "levels" of parts - be careful.;)

Tom

63larkcustom
10-07-2007, 01:40 PM
I'm getting ready to drop the motor back in Lucy this week. I'm gonna give the Honda alternator a try. Tom mentioned that the chrysler regulator works. What is the application to ask for on the regulator so I get the right one? Thanks in advance.
Bob

StudeRich
10-07-2007, 03:01 PM
Bob; the 1961 to about 1966 or so Dodge, Chrys, Plymouth externally regulated Alternators use the Studebaker regulator! I recommend the Electronic replacement ones however, do not waste your money on a mechanical one.

On my '64 Daytona V-8, it required cutting & moving one of the "ears" off of the Stude. mounting bracket to align the pulleys using the single pulley, maybe with a dual pulley it might line up with the crank & fan mine did not. That way the Alt. was NOT modified and could be replaced easy! [^]

The reason Tom had no prob. with his Avanti is they have a special mounting bracket to handle A/C or S/C and do not mount on the exhaust manifold like our standard V-8's do. :)

Do remember though, that the Chryslers ARE large and ugly compared to the Toyota Carolla, (<I got one of these-nice!) Honda, and Prestolite nice small units! :(

My advice is: take your Prestolite to a local Alt. REBUILDER and have them match it up and test & sell you one they guarantee, I DO NOT recommend going to a cheapie (CSK) Checker,Schucks,Kragen, Autozone, Pep Boys, Carquest etc. Auto Parts Store who use the large wham-bam -thank you man rebuilders with no English speaking employees! Drive to the nearest larger town and go to a REAL Shop![:0]

I found out something interesting about CSK Corp. Auto Parts Stores, they BOUGHT the name "Autolite" and can use it on all of their cheap crap lifetime & non guaranteed rebuilt Electrical units even their Exide Batteries (which are pretty good) so NONE of this stuff is the real Autolite Co. !!! [xx(] Yeah they'll replace it if you buy the Premium Lifetime one, BUT you get the frustration and labor of doing it, every stinking YEAR or less!! [xx(]

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

63larkcustom
10-07-2007, 03:21 PM
I have the alternator that came with the car. How can I test it to see if its good? I took it to an autozone and they looked at me crosseyed.

63larkcustom
10-07-2007, 03:29 PM
BTW.. not sure if this matters with the brackets for the honda conversion..but i have the ohv6

StudeRich
10-07-2007, 03:30 PM
I think they have the equipment to test it ON the car only, and that may be the problem, not the model or age of the unit. After all 12 Volts, is 12 volts, a voltmeter/Ampmeter does not care if it's Delco, Autolite, Prestolite, or Honda!

Like I said, go to a REAL their name on the door, local, hometown Gen/starter/Alt. Re-Builder/Electrical Shop!!


quote:Originally posted by 63larkcustom

I have the alternator that came with the car. How can I test it to see if its good? I took it to an autozone and they looked at me crosseyed.


The OHV 6 should NOT be a problem fitting, I think Kent used one on his Canadian '64 OHV 6 Cyl. Cruiser.
Sorry, I always get confused with you two high volume posters: Clark '63 Lark Standard V-8 & you '63 Lark Regal 6!! [:0]

On the other hand, I am sure there are many readers & "lurkers" out there who appreciate the info on the way more common V-8's! :)

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

Laemmle
10-07-2007, 04:40 PM
My local electrical shop owned by two brothers for over 35 years has the following on the wall of the front office........a picture of Uncle Sam saying............"I want you, TO SPEAK ENGLISH!" They have so much business it seems they keep 100 hour work weeks....they feel as long as the big box auto parts stores/re-builders remain in business they will continue the good life replacing/fixing all the starter motors/alternators etc......you would not believe how utterly disgusting the work is of those other re-builders!

True story..........about five years ago I needed a new magnetic starter switch for my Avanti.......a "friend" picked one up for me at a place his brother utilizes......when I saw this part I asked, how much was this pos?[V]......eight dollars I was told....it was made in China and a real big POS! I told this 'friend' he and his brother were clueless.......later that week I was near a FoMoCo dealer...who also supplied parts to the Ford/Merc car club members....I purchased a REAL AMERICAN made switch...cost me about thirty dollars with the tax.......BUY AMERICAN,DEMAND AMERICAN!![^]


quote:Originally posted by StudeRich

Bob; the 1961 to about 1966 or so Dodge, Chrys, Plymouth externally regulated Alternators use the Studebaker regulator! I recommend the Electronic replacement ones however, do not waste your money on a mechanical one.

On my '64 Daytona V-8, it required cutting & moving one of the "ears" off of the Stude. mounting bracket to align the pulleys using the single pulley, maybe with a dual pulley it might line up with the crank & fan mine did not. That way the Alt. was NOT modified and could be replaced easy! [^]

The reason Tom had no prob. with his Avanti is they have a special mounting bracket to handle A/C or S/C and do not mount on the exhaust manifold like our standard V-8's do. :)

Do remember though, that the Chryslers ARE large and ugly compared to the Toyota Carolla, (<I got one of these-nice!) Honda, and Prestolite nice small units! :(

My advice is: take your Prestolite to a local Alt. REBUILDER and have them match it up and test & sell you one they guarantee, I DO NOT recommend going to a cheapie (CSK) Checker,Schucks,Kragen, Autozone, Pep Boys, Carquest etc. Auto Parts Store who use the large wham-bam -thank you man rebuilders with no English speaking employees! Drive to the nearest larger town and go to a REAL Shop![:0]

I found out something interesting about CSK Corp. Auto Parts Stores, they BOUGHT the name "Autolite" and can use it on all of their cheap crap lifetime & non guaranteed rebuilt Electrical units even their Exide Batteries (which are pretty good) so NONE of this stuff is the real Autolite Co. !!! [xx(] Yeah they'll replace it if you buy the Premium Lifetime one, BUT you get the frustration and labor of doing it, every stinking YEAR or less!! [xx(]

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

sbca96
10-07-2007, 07:40 PM
Actually, the Honda alt I used on my Hawk, which mounted exactly right
to the mounting points of the Prestolite. The Avanti I'm running a GM
alt, which also used the factory mounts, but redrilled one bolt hole
to the front to line up the pulley. I do not have any pictures of the
Honda Alt on my Hawk, my brother is running one on his Lark V8, I will
ask him to get me a cell phone shot to post.

Tom

Avanti GM Alt install :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/AvantiGMalt/Avanti_Alt01.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/AvantiGMalt/Avanti_Alt07.jpg


quote:Originally posted by StudeRich
The reason Tom had no prob. with his Avanti is they have a special mounting bracket to handle A/C or S/C and do not mount on the exhaust manifold like our standard V-8's do.

JDP
10-07-2007, 08:58 PM
I vote for the late 60's MOPAR unit too. They cost less then $50.00 rebuilt, sometimes closer to $30 and use the same Mopar regulator Studebaker does.

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT cost to date $55046.57
64 Daytona HT/R2 clone
63 Lark 2 door
58 Packard HT
56 Golden Hawk
52 Starliner
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)

HammondA100
10-08-2007, 03:01 AM
When buying alternators I have always been drawn to purchase OEM rebuilds from that particular "club" vendor such as a supplier for a GM vehicle no longer in production. they guarantee the work and they want to assist you should you have problems. The external regulator ones simplify the wiring transfer.
Many times I gatherd one or two up at a swap meet then bought the OE rebuild parts so I knew we werent going to be stuck.
Of course my reasoning behind continuing that was because in the part of Dallas I lived in at the time Autozone would not serve you well if you didnt speak Spanish.

Ches in So.Dakota
55 Commander Coupe in parts.

Green53
10-08-2007, 06:13 PM
I had a Mopar alternator on a 64 Daytona several years ago. It worked great. You should be able to find a stock Avanti alternator I would think. I keep a spare in each of my cars plus a spare.
Denny L

sbca96
10-08-2007, 10:56 PM
I havent checked the price lately, but the Honda alt uses the same
voltage regulator when wired how I showed. Its the same physical
size and shape, which would fool all but judges. Not going to make
as big a difference visually as the Mopar - which is also quite ugly.

Tom


quote:Originally posted by JDP
I vote for the late 60's MOPAR unit too. They cost less then $50.00 rebuilt, sometimes closer to $30 and use the same Mopar regulator Studebaker does.

Warren Webb
03-15-2009, 07:05 AM
In response to the above post by 63larkcustom, when you go to one of the big parts stores & have them test anything, they can only hook up & test what their book says. I'm sure they dont have any connection info for a Studebaker. As has been said before, go to a repudable local rebuilder that knows their stuff, not some off the shelf lackey that was bagging groceries the week before.

60 Lark convertible
61 Champ
62 Daytona convertible
63 G.T. R-2,4 speed
63 Avanti (2)
66 Daytona Sport Sedan