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studelover
03-20-2007, 05:15 PM
I was with the engine builder today and heard a conversation about oils. I was told that they have been systematically removing zinc from the oil that we use because it is hurting the catalitic converters. The zinc is a cleaner and very important for rebuilds in the break in period. GM is asking machine shops to get a prelube mix to put in gm motors that have been rebuilt. The oil Rottell (Excuse my spell) had the zinc removed from it in January. I guess nothing is safe in this time. Anybody heard anything about this, are we suppose to be concerned?

Studebakers forever!

bondobilly
03-20-2007, 05:25 PM
I believe JP posted about this and suggested using a diesel rated motor oil.

BG

studelover
03-20-2007, 06:48 PM
I would like to reference this JPD where can I find it, I will be breaking my motor in about a month from now and need to know the best why to do it.:D

Studebakers forever!

StudeRich
03-20-2007, 07:01 PM
WARNING: "THIS IS AN "X" RATED TOPIC! Only over 18 members may read!" [:0][:0]

Here you go! You DO have to remember however, that someone got "out of control" on this post and a few comments are still there about him. But all of his comments are edited OUT, so it is a bit hard reading. Forget the opinions, just follow the FACTS!

http://www.studebakerdriversclub.com/sdc_forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8507&SearchTerms=zddp

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

sntsftbll
03-20-2007, 07:39 PM
I said I was sorry

StudeRich
03-20-2007, 07:52 PM
quote:Originally posted by sntsftbll

I said I was sorry


It was not you or me or anyone still on the forum! :):)

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

sntsftbll
03-20-2007, 07:56 PM
Whew... I feel much better:D

showbizkid
03-20-2007, 09:25 PM
Wow! He really did edit them all out! Even zeroed out his profile. "I guess I'll take my ball and go home..."


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

Swifster
03-20-2007, 10:20 PM
Are the manufacturers 'breaking in' their engines prior to installation to avoid wiping out the cam or the converter? Or is there some special blend being used for the first oil installed in the car? Anyone have any ideas?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Valrico, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/1965_Studebaker_Commander_front198x.jpg

StudeRich
03-21-2007, 12:25 AM
What new engines? All of the new cars for years have had either an overhead cam, or roller lifters eliminating the need for extreme pressure (wear) additives.

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

studelover
03-21-2007, 02:19 AM
The folks that I had this conversation with sais that because of the removal of the zinc, the motors were wiping the cam. I forgot to mention that. I did not know it was such a tabo subject. I was not on the forum then, I am sorry for opening up a bad wound. I need to take this info back to my club at it's next meeting because we know nothing of this, it's very scary! thanks![}:)]

Studebakers forever!

blackhawk61
03-21-2007, 07:40 AM
quote:Originally posted by bondobilly


quote:Originally posted by Swifster

Are the manufacturers 'breaking in' their engines prior to installation to avoid wiping out the cam or the converter? Or is there some special blend being used for the first oil installed in the car? Anyone have any ideas?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Valrico, FL


Two months ago we took delivery of a new vehicle, it was a 6 mile drive home, and when I went through all the books, there was no mention as to keeping speeds below 50 for the first 100 miles, below 70 for the forst 500, and no msntion of returning to dealer after the first 1000 miles. The scheduled maintenance is 5000 miles.

The world has changed.

I had a VERY GOOD Mechanic once tell Me(long time ago)"Break it in like You intend to drive it"...Always worked for Me !
1961 Hawk 4BC,4-SPEED,TT
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q55/chevpartsman/61HawkChevypartsmanreduce.jpg
Lewisville,NC
(formerly chevpartsman)

bondobilly
03-21-2007, 08:00 AM
quote:Originally posted by Swifster

Are the manufacturers 'breaking in' their engines prior to installation to avoid wiping out the cam or the converter? Or is there some special blend being used for the first oil installed in the car? Anyone have any ideas?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Valrico, FL


Two months ago we took delivery of a new vehicle, it was a 6 mile drive home, and when I went through all the books, there was no mention as to keeping speeds below 50 for the first 100 miles, below 70 for the forst 500, and no msntion of returning to dealer after the first 1000 miles. The scheduled maintenance is 5000 miles.

The world has changed.

Swifster
03-21-2007, 08:27 AM
I've seen this too. But even with roller lifters, there is still metal-to-metal contact with various parts in the engine. With the elimination of the 'break in' period, I would tend to think the auto makers are breaking in the engines at their facilities before being shipped to the final assembly plant.

Another reason I ask this, and it may be another fairy tale, but I've been told not to break in a new rebuilt engine with synthetic oil. The idea behind this is that the synthetic works too well and keeps the rings from seating against the cylinder walls. Now, how true this is I don't know. If it is true, the factory break in would explain how the car can come down the assembly line and still get a 'factory fill' of Mobil 1.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Valrico, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/1965_Studebaker_Commander_front198x.jpg

showbizkid
03-21-2007, 09:19 AM
Just found this article from Crane Cams that specifically addresses the break-in of flat-tappet engines and the lack of zinc in modern oils:

http://www.cranecams.com/pdf/548e.pdf

They recommend the use of a break-in lube like GM E.O.S. (or their own, natch), and specifically recommend against the use of synthetics for break-in. Worth a read.


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

John Kirchhoff
03-21-2007, 11:43 AM
As far as rings "breaking in", what's happening is the rings and cylinder wall polish each other up. Kind of like getting your shoes broke in, they have to stretch in the right places to fit your foot. That's why you need to hone or use a glaze breaker on the cylinder when installing new rings. The cylinder wall is polished so smooth there isn't enough rough stuff to slick things up. I guess an oil that was too "slippery" would act the same way.

studelover
03-21-2007, 07:49 PM
Talked to a gentleman today and he mentioned the same stuff you'all talked about from GM E.O.S or fluid from red line. It dosen't apply to hydraulic systems so new stuff need not worry, I will be getting my motor back soon so I wanted to know the best way to break it in. Rottella is best however I have to find somebody carrying it.

Studebakers forever!

41 Frank
03-21-2007, 09:33 PM
Rottella is best however I have to find somebody carrying it.

Studebakers forever!
[/quote]

I have not come across an auto parts store here that did not have it in on the shelf.

Tom B
03-21-2007, 09:50 PM
My AutoZone manager told me in December about Rotella taking the zinc out of their mix. He said that happily it is still in STP. Who knew?

[img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Bothcars.jpg[/img=left]
Tom Bredehoft
'53 Commander Coupe
'60 Lark VI
'05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
All three Indiana built OD cars

StudeRich
03-21-2007, 10:25 PM
They only REDUCED the Shell Rotella T to meet Gov. & SAE standards. Chevron Delo 400 is just as good. Also I called the Oil Engineering Dept. at Kendall Oil Co. and asked for the best flat tappet cam wear protection oil and was told by an Engineer that the best out there is Kendall Super D3 10-30 or 15W-40 with 1400 PPM of the sulphur/zinc compound additive!!![^]

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

63Avanti
08-27-2007, 03:34 PM
quote:Originally posted by studelover

I was with the engine builder today and heard a conversation about oils. I was told that they have been systematically removing zinc from the oil that we use because it is hurting the catalitic converters. The zinc is a cleaner and very important for rebuilds in the break in period. GM is asking machine shops to get a prelube mix to put in gm motors that have been rebuilt. The oil Rottell (Excuse my spell) had the zinc removed from it in January. I guess nothing is safe in this time. Anybody heard anything about this, are we suppose to be concerned?

Studebakers forever!

If you use CI-4 or CI-4Plus, oil, you DO NOT need additives.
The November Issue of the Avanti Mag will have an extensive article on
this.

You can still find CI-4/CI-4Plus oils out there, but NOT at big box/
auto stores. In commercial and rural areas, you can easily find the
older stuff. I did a quick survey of VOA/PDS in preparation for the
article for the November Avanti mag. Below is a list of what I have
found "on the shelves" and meeting the criteria from the article.

>>>>After the research, I went to my local NAPA and bought the entire store stock of
NAPA Universal Fleet Plus, 15w-40, CI-4Plus, (high zinc/TBN/calcium).
At $9.55 per gallon, 2.39 per quart, it is tough to beat!<<<<

"Good Oils" from July 2007 study

> 15w-40 CI-4/Plus "Dino"

Best: Cummins/Valvoline Premium Blue Classic, Pennzoil Long Life,
Chevron Delo 400 (not "LE"), Kendall Super D 3, 76 Guardol QLT
Good: NAPA Universal Fleet Plus, Caterpillar DEO, John Deere Plus-50,
Lucas 15/40 Magnum,
Satisfactory: Castrol GTX Diesel, Motorcraft Super Duty, Pilot Premium
HD

> 5w-40 CI-4/Plus Synthetic

Best: Shell Rotella T Synthetic, Cummins/Valvoline Premium Blue Syn
Classic, Red Line Diesel Synthetic

These oils may be reformulated before you buy.
Do your research!


Terry, North Texas
1963 Avanti R2, 63SR1065
(in stage 1 resto "Project A")
http://sterkel.org/avanti
1985 Kubota L2202(Diesel)
2000 VW Jetta GLS
1999 Toyota rice burner