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View Full Version : 62 Hawk disc brakes? Possible?



parky
04-21-2006, 07:51 PM
Does anybody have any experience with converting a '62 Hawk to front disc brakes? I know there are some vendors selling kits ($$$$$$$), but does anybody know any shortcuts?

DEEPNHOCK
04-21-2006, 08:47 PM
No.
You don't take shortcuts with brakes.
Just go buy a set of Turner Brakes and be done with it.
Your Stude, and the motoring public will appreciate it.
(That, and add that cost to your selling price later on...Youy won't lose a penny)
Jeff[8D]


quote:Originally posted by parky

Does anybody have any experience with converting a '62 Hawk to front disc brakes? I know there are some vendors selling kits ($$$$$$$), but does anybody know any shortcuts?

parky
04-21-2006, 08:52 PM
I understand the safety aspect involved. I'm just wondering if stuff from later years can be retrofitted.

Roscomacaw
04-21-2006, 08:57 PM
The Turner kits (and others) ARE stuff from later years that's been adapted.;)

There's no "I'll just unbolt these from this late model __________
and bolt it on my Studebaker." kinda deal.

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Dan White
04-21-2006, 09:22 PM
I have the Steeltech/Dave Levesque (early) kit on my '64 R1 GT and it has worked like a charm. But there are no shortcuts otherwise these guys (Turner and Levesque) would not be in business selling the kits. The deal with both kits are the custom mounting brakets for the calipers, the other parts are later year rotors, hoses, calipers/bearings that make the setup work. You will pay the money for the calipers, rotors, bolts, hoses, etc. and there is quite a bit of cost right there, so even if there were bolt ons, it would still cost $$$$.

Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT

JDP
04-21-2006, 10:41 PM
Well you could add the 63-66 Studebaker units. You'd need a power brake booster ($250), the brakes and spindles from a parts car, (maybe $300), then rebuild the calipers, ($200-$400) Should only cost you a few $100 more then the modern Turners. :)

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
64 R2 4 speed Challenger
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
63 Avanti
54 3R Pickup

Pat Skelly
04-21-2006, 11:46 PM
I've had a set of Turners on my 62 for a few years, and i'm very satisfied with them. The only shortcut is, Buy the complete kit from Jim.

Pat Skelly
62 GT Hawk
53 Studillac
37 Dictator Coupe

N8N
04-22-2006, 07:44 AM
I agree with the other comments. Personally I wouldn't go with the stock Studebaker discs unless it were for a car that was originally so equipped, or if a whole set fell into my lap for a good price (and that includes the rear brakes as well; they are different.)

IMHO the Turner kit is probably your best bet; although if you are handy there was a thread here recently about using recent Ford Cobra brakes that looks intriguing in a massive overkill kind of way.

If you have a good junkyard nearby you could buy the "basic" Turner kit (just the brackets, hoses, and bearing adapters) and source your parts from the junkyard...)

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

chocolate turkey
04-22-2006, 08:49 AM
I agree with the group. There is no shortcut for safety related items! I have a parts car with a complete original disc brake system that I was going to rebuild and install on my 66 Daytona, but the smart way to go, and most cost effective is the Turner system. The rebuild cost of the Studebaker brakes is close to 1000.00 by the time the smoke clears. That stuff will be a core for somebody's project! Make me an offer!

Brian

Brian K. Curtis

parky
04-22-2006, 09:28 AM
These are just the answers I have been looking for. I was impressed wih Turner stuff as soon as I saw it.
Has anyone had experience with the m/c adapter brackets to allow the installation of a dual chamber master cylinder????
What is the feeling for the need for a power booster?????
thanks for all the info.

Pat Skelly
04-22-2006, 10:15 AM
I have one of Jims M/C brackets on the Hawk, using the Jeep truck M/C, again good stuff. I'm not running any booster, and don't feel the need to, the car stops quick and straight.

Pat Skelly
62 GT Hawk
53 Studillac
37 Dictator Coupe

gordr
04-22-2006, 01:40 PM
quote:Originally posted by chocolate turkey

I agree with the group. There is no shortcut for safety related items! I have a parts car with a complete original disc brake system that I was going to rebuild and install on my 66 Daytona, but the smart way to go, and most cost effective is the Turner system. The rebuild cost of the Studebaker brakes is close to 1000.00 by the time the smoke clears. That stuff will be a core for somebody's project! Make me an offer!

Brian

Brian K. Curtis


Brian, I might just do that. I just brought home a '64 Daytona hardtop that I am pretty sure was originally a disc brake car, since it still has the disc brake booster and m/c in it. I think it was used as a donor to put disc brakes in a Hawk.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

Dan White
04-22-2006, 03:09 PM
Here is a recent thread about disc brake design

http://www.studebakerdriversclub.com/sdc_forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3191&SearchTerms=Brakes

I know that Jim Turner has a lot of support on this forum, but IMHO the Steeltech design is a bit better and the support has always been there. I am about ready to put a rear disc brake setup on my R1 Hawk from Steeltech.

Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT

parky
04-22-2006, 07:19 PM
So I surmise that the ideal setup would be Steeltech big brakes and Turner's dual m/c bracket???

Dan White
04-22-2006, 07:41 PM
A word of caution about changing to a dual MC setup. If you have power brakes on your GT, ie. Hydrovac, you will have a choice either power brakes or dual MC you cannot have both since the Hydrovac gets its signal from a single line from the MC and then applies pressure to all four brake lines at the same time from one feed. I have front power disk brakes on my GT and they work great (soon rear disk as well). I have not felt the need for a dual MC.

As for the two vendors of the brake systems, I am not knocking the Turner setup, as far as I know they work fine and you would not have any problems with either system. I was just expressing my opinion concerning the design of the two.

Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT

sbca96
04-23-2006, 02:32 AM
I have designed my own system, basically because neither Turner or the
Steeltech setups are "modern" anymore. I had decided to buy the one
that Steeltech makes, solely because I dont care for the spacer that
Turner uses on the spindle. The downside of the Steeltech is the
ultra rare rotors, actually so are the Turner rotors. Steeltech fits
with no modifications though. Turner requires modifying the caliper
and the brake pads. I am refering to the BIG brakes from Steeltech,
I think their smaller one uses the same Ford rotor as the Turner.

There are no easy swaps, they all will cost money, I just felt if your
going to swap to something else, why not use parts that you can buy
off the shelf at Autozone?

Steeltech rotor = 175 a piece (special order)
Turner rotor = 100 a piece (special order)
94-04 GT Mustang (one I used) = 25 a piece (in stock at Autozone);)

Of course I will be swapping that for the 13 inch zinc plated, drilled
and slotted Cobra rotor soon, and the caliper to the 2 piston alum.:D
(Even the Cobra rotor is only $60 special order at Autozone)

Now [u]THATS</u> a MODERN disc brake.:D:D:D

Tom


1963 Studebaker Avanti (http://hometown.aol.com/sbca96/images/63avanti.jpg), 102,000, custom made brake brackets to mount 1998 Mustang GT 4 wheel disc brakes (soon to get 13" Cobra front brakes, 2003 Mustang Cobra 17" wheels, GM altenator, will be getting : 97 Camaro Z28 tan leather seats, 97 Camaro Z28 T-56 6-speed trans, Ported 'R3' style Avanti heads with stainless full flow valves, 'R3' 276 duration cam w/chrysler solid lifters, shortened push rods, aluminum cam gear, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires, waiting in the garage.

Roscomacaw
04-23-2006, 01:55 PM
That's very nice Tom. I'm happy for you and laud your efforts. Now what's the price of your kits and how many folks can you call up for testimonials as to the ease of installation and their performance over the long term?:D

Gordr wrote: " Brian, I might just do that. I just brought home a '64 Daytona hardtop that I am pretty sure was originally a disc brake car, since it still has the disc brake booster and m/c in it. I think it was used as a donor to put disc brakes in a Hawk."

Gordon, have you looked to see if the rear brakes are 11" or did those go to your projected Hawk upgrade too?[?]


Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

StudeDave57
04-23-2006, 10:06 PM
Mr. Biggs~
That's kinda what I've been wondering...
And have been wondering ever since Tom started posting about those fancy brakes! Still waiting, too! As I drive a Stude everyday my ride might be a good one to try 'em out on, so I think!
Tom?

[8D]

StudeDave
San Diego, Ca

'54 Commander 4dr
'57 Parkview (it's a 2dr wagon...)
'57 Commander 2dr
'57 Champion 2dr
'58 Packard sedan
'65 Cruiser

gordr
04-24-2006, 01:58 AM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

That's very nice Tom. I'm happy for you and laud your efforts. Now what's the price of your kits and how many folks can you call up for testimonials as to the ease of installation and their performance over the long term?:D

Gordr wrote: " Brian, I might just do that. I just brought home a '64 Daytona hardtop that I am pretty sure was originally a disc brake car, since it still has the disc brake booster and m/c in it. I think it was used as a donor to put disc brakes in a Hawk."

Gordon, have you looked to see if the rear brakes are 11" or did those go to your projected Hawk upgrade too?[?]


Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS


I have been working on them. The rear brakes are in fact 10" drum brakes, and there were NO rear parking brake cables at all, but the hardware was all there inside. Rear axle is a 3.31 open diff model 44. I'm pretty well certain that this WAS a disc brake car that gave up its power train and brakes for another car; probably a Hawk, as that would explain the master cylinder NOT being gone. All wheel cylinder were lightly seized. I've honed and reassembled all four, and am on the point of reassembling the right rear brake assembly. I had a rear park brake cable in the barn, so I have that installed to the left rear brake, and the right side awaits. I should have "driveway" brakes at least by tomorrow.

One of the local chapter members has a pair of doors, and maybe a set of mag wheels as well.

Tomorrow I will hopefully complete the brake job, and then go over the entire car with the pressure washer.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

sbca96
04-24-2006, 02:04 AM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

That's very nice Tom. I'm happy for you and laud your efforts. Now what's the price of your kits and how many folks can you call up for testimonials as to the ease of installation and their performance over the long term?:D


quote:Originally posted by StudeDave57
and have been wondering ever since Tom started posting about those fancy brakes! Still waiting, too!

Its interesting to me that you are still waiting to find out the cost
of the brake setup, since I posted up the estimated cost of "my kit"
on 03/12/2006 - over a month ago. The cost would be less then the
Turner setup, the main benefit being that the stock Stude hub is kept,
the downside being that the outer diameter needs to be turned down.
Since its also based off the new style disc brakes, the rims need to
be updated to newer Crown Victoria rims (to clear the larger caliper).
I dont have the facilities to market a "kit". I am attempting to get
a few brackets made, but I only have one SERIOUS party, and a BUNCH
of "lookieloos". Since I cant afford to make a bunch of brackets and
not have guarenteed sales, its on hold for the time being. As far as
ease of installation, its easy, you bolt on the bracket, put the hub
on the spindle, and bolt on the caliper. No spacer to heat up to red
hot with a torch. Long term? Its brakes used on Fords from 94-04,
I havent read anything bad about them myself .... the GT setup also
can use a 2 piston 03/04 GT caliper. I took the time to put together
a nice tech article, and then did a cost analysis, but I got 20 or so
replies & most of those were about how the Turner setup is just fine.

http://www.studebakerdriversclub.com/sdc_forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3191

Unfortunately, since my wifes transmission just took a dump after 39k
on the rebuild, I cant even THINK about spending possible repair cash
on making brackets for people who "might" be interested. Once I get
my tax refund, and find out what is going on with that trans, I will
breathe a little easier.


quote:Originally posted by Dan White
I have not felt the need for a dual MC.

I "felt" the need for a dual master cylinder when my brakes on the 60
Hawk failed coming off the freeway at 75 mph. I was able to slow the
car down with the trans by downshifting, but ended up taking a sign
out in a parking lot before I could get it stopped. I changed the 63
Avanti to a dual M/C the same week. Their wasnt a kit available at
the time for the Hawks, so it never got one before it got totalled in
a different accident. The cause of the brake failure was a defect in a
rebuilt rear wheel cylinder rubber cup it had a small air bubble.

Tom

Roscomacaw
04-24-2006, 12:11 PM
Well then, Tom - you need to develop your "system", have several knowledgeable (and several not-so-knowlegdeable) Stude sorts install and drive your design. NOTHING brings out the bugs like letting others work with your baby.;)
Ya see - as many pluses as your approach may have, there's not many amongst us (myself included) that have the skills to work up the braketry you've devised. (Actually, i think I MIGHT be able to produce some in crude but useable form. But I'd rather go with "proven" stuff than bother):D

I'm not here to push Turner's brakes over any others. But I can say that I've had his front disc brakes on my truck since '96 and I'm well pleased with the service they give. This along with using the dare-devil, single circuit master cylinder without any boost, to actuate them.:)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

sbca96
04-24-2006, 05:17 PM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

Well then, Tom - you need to develop your "system", have several knowledgeable (and several not-so-knowlegdeable) Stude sorts install and drive your design. NOTHING brings out the bugs like letting others work with your baby.;)

Agreed, but there in lies the problem, its a dog chasing his tail, I
dont have the money right now to make the product, and I have only
one person 'brave?" enough to front the money ahead to have them made.
I also NEED to purchase the Cobra setup, so I can prove the other end
of the spectrum. Actually, the only thing that needs to be "proven"
is that the Cobra rotor fits over the Stude hub without mod, I have an
extra unmodified set to test this. Thats the key, since I think that
most people that would want this vast improvement, will be looking to
go the whole nine yards, and do the 2 piston/13 inch rotor.


quote:Ya see - as many pluses as your approach may have, there's not many amongst us (myself included) that have the skills to work up the braketry you've devised.

This is true, the hose bracket is simple, but the caliper bracket is
a bit more involved, now it could be simplified/cheapened by using
steel, and going thinner, then dropping the grease catch like Turners
and Steeltech. Most the aftermarket setups I have seen dont bother
with this little feature, which is nice for production cars that will
see many miles. I have considered this route also.[B)]

Tom

StudeDave57
04-24-2006, 08:23 PM
quote:Its interesting to me that you are still waiting to find out the cost of the brake setup, since I posted up the estimated cost of "my kit" on 03/12/2006 - over a month ago.
I'm sorry I missed the 'estimated cost' I've been watching the post in which I asked the question... maybe if there was only ONE post about your setup I wouldn't have missed it, eh? At least I wasn't the only one~ No Worries! I'm still interested, but I just bought a '58 Packard, and have to get it further along before I go and tear up one of the drivers. Guess I gotta be just a lookieloo for awhile, sorry.

[8D]


StudeDave
San Diego, Ca

'54 Commander 4dr
'57 Parkview (it's a 2dr wagon...)
'57 Commander 2dr
'57 Champion 2dr
'58 Packard sedan
'65 Cruiser

sbca96
04-25-2006, 03:19 AM
quote:Originally posted by StudeDave57
I'm still interested, but I just bought a '58 Packard, and have to get it further along before I go and tear up one of the drivers. Guess I gotta be just a lookieloo for awhile, sorry

No worries .. the project is back burner until I can figure out what
I need to do on the wifes car. Leaning toward towing it home and in
the garage dropping the pan and valve body and having a look. I need
to order a 4L60 rebuild/diagnosis book. Anyone happen to be a master
4L60 transmission tech in here?[:p]

Tom