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View Full Version : "Cursed Purple Hawk"?? What IS the story?



sbca96
03-19-2006, 05:52 AM
quote:Originally posted by Kdancy

see "Cursed Purple Hawk"

You are a man of MANY email addresses. I just NOW put two and two
together that you have that Purple Hawk. I am quite curious as to
why its "cursed". My dad almost bought it. It seemed like quite a
nice car ... what did I miss? I got an Email back in august from a
"studehdtp53", I replied, but dont show a reply back. Maybe it did
not make it to you?

Tom

1963 Studebaker Avanti (http://hometown.aol.com/sbca96/images/63avanti.jpg), 102,000, custom made brake brackets to mount 1998 Mustang GT 4 wheel disc brakes (soon to get 13" Cobra front brakes, 2003 Mustang Cobra 17" wheels, GM altenator, will be getting : 97 Camaro Z28 tan leather seats, 97 Camaro Z28 T-56 6-speed trans, Ported 'R3' style Avanti heads with stainless full flow valves, 'R3' 276 duration cam w/chrysler solid lifters, shortened push rods, aluminum cam gear, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires, waiting in the garage.

Kdancy
03-19-2006, 08:08 AM
Orginal post I read for car-- http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.studebaker/browse_thread/thread/dcbbd0f516703467/ac1a93e6679ec51e?q=Purple+Hawk&rnum=4#ac1a93e6679ec51e

Be thankful, very thankful that he did not buy it. As you probably remember, the car was advertised as a "just finish the intereior and twik a little".
As soon as we got it home and put it on the lift we know we were in trouble. Rust had been covered up with undercoating all under the car. Work that had been done to the floor pans was subpar at best and I had to re-do it all and a whole lot more. The trunk bolt down areas were rusted out and barley hanging on (covered with spray undercoating so I couldn't see it in the pictures or right off the bat). I had to cut the areas out and weld new metal in place. I've cut rusted bottom off the drivers door and welded new metal in place -- need to do the same on the other door. Here are a few pictures-
http://community.webshots.com/album/155383916ZTFXBk
When we first picked the car up we noticed the oil pressure was on the low side and called the seller about it, was told not to worry just a bad oil pressure guage. Long story short, we had to pull the engine and rebuild it, the bearings were shot. The new carpet we bought while picking up the car, just starting falling apart and we replaced it with a Phantom carpet that is much better quality. The new seat covers were re-worked to look half way decent and will be replaced if I ever get it back on the road. Anyway, the car is now setting, waiting for me to get back to it and finish the body work and re-paint.
Oh yea, the underhood wiring harness was built without putting a fuse in line to the cooling fan causing the harness to burn up. We also had to pull and have the drive shaft re-done. Seems like almost everything done to the car was just half-a%$#. This is one time I wished I didn't have internet!!
I whole lot more, my head is hurting.



53commander HDTP
53 Champion HDTP
61 Cursed Purple Hawk
64 Champ long bed V8
64 GT

sbca96
03-19-2006, 05:18 PM
quote:Originally posted by Kdancy
As soon as we got it home and put it on the lift we know we were in trouble. Rust had been covered up with undercoating all under the car.

Wow ... what a bummer. Yah thats not acceptable for the money that
was asked for. I could let the rusty trunk go (having had a 60 Hawk
I kinda expect that area to rust) but the engine taking a dive was
something you shouldnt have had to deal with! At least the car fell
into hands that can make it right, and you have a lot of nice parts
there to work with. Reminds me of the 95 Impala SS I bought, the
guy who installed all the coold stuff, I had to redo most of it, he
claimed he was a Stereo Installer, but I even had to fix that!![xx(]

Tom

gaboy
03-20-2006, 09:52 AM
quote:Originally posted by sbca96


quote:Originally posted by Kdancy
As soon as we got it home and put it on the lift we know we were in trouble. Rust had been covered up with undercoating all under the car.

Wow ... what a bummer. Yah thats not acceptable for the money that
was asked for. I could let the rusty trunk go (having had a 60 Hawk
I kinda expect that area to rust) but the engine taking a dive was
something you shouldnt have had to deal with! At least the car fell
into hands that can make it right, and you have a lot of nice parts
there to work with. Reminds me of the 95 Impala SS I bought, the
guy who installed all the coold stuff, I had to redo most of it, he
claimed he was a Stereo Installer, but I even had to fix that!![xx(]

Tom
At least you are fixing it like it should have been done to begin with.
It's a real shame that undercoating can cover so much & greed comes into play whenever it comes to a sale.
LM

JDP
03-20-2006, 11:10 AM
Greed ???, Warren The SDC menber that sold me the car had 25K in the car and sold it to me for under half that. He did not undercoat the car to fool me, he undercosted it to undercoat it. I paid 10K, put 2K in it and lots of labor and sold it for 13K the greedy bastard that I am, I must have made $5.00 a hour intalling the drive line and getting it on the road.

It never occured to me to gripe to Warren about a car that he sold for less than the parts value without the friggin car. Kdarcy commented on the less than perfect quality of the body work when he inspected and picked up the car, but we did not take it apart to look for hidden rust. It had no external rust, it had new paint and looked pretty on the outside and that's probably all Warren wanted.

When I bought it I just knew that a supercharged 308 cu.in, with a 5 speed, 2K worth of wheels, a $1000 aluminum rear and the rest was worth more in parts then what I sold it for.
I still would have taken the car back after the rust was discovered on disassembly, but was never asked too. This is the last I have to say on car sold in 2001 this year.:)



Greedy Warren's investmet list:

ENGINE 308 C.I.

TRW Forged Pistons 200 ci Ford $270
Cam brgs TED HARBIT $55
freeze plugs rubber $20
gasket set " $125
rod brgs " $120
main brgs " $160
cam gear aluminium " $125
oil pump gear kit w/plate $65
ARP rod bolts " $85
ARP main brg studs " $60
cam r3+ regrind " $125
recon lifters " $45
hi output blower pulleys " $221
Rebuilt SC w/ HO impeller " $95 impel & SC
rebuild $550
spring tensioner new for SC $90
Supercharger oil cooler $200
SC belt " $25
SC inlet hose " $28
bonnet SC to carb " $100
Supercharger output hose and clamps $15
ALUM 4 barrel manifold Lionel stone $325
ALUM R-2 Water manifold " " $275
blower bracket " " $205
Idler arm and pulley " " $135
finned aluminium valve covers $200
add filler tubes and caps $40
balance & blueprint, drill and tap crank to accept 7/16 SAE flywheel
bolts align bored, install cam bearings Lifter bores drilled tapped and
plugged for oil control $1200
HEI HD ign Dave Leveque $400
2 1/4 Stainless exhaust system $600
Carter AFB 625 CFM $225
Fuel pump Holley HP with reg. $125
Oil pressure safety switch $40
Magnum Alternator $100
Air filter and hose $82
3/8 inch steel line, hose and filter $41

HEADS
Valves 1.85/1.60 Manely 11578/11889 $160
Valve springs/retainers/keepers Dart SB chevy
Ported and polished, i

sbca96
03-20-2006, 11:19 AM
Well ... I hear you on the rust, as I said .. that I could overlook
having had a Hawk before. The thing thats a bummer is the engine. I
have a friend who sold a 95 Caprice Wagon with a built 383 stroker
engine in it. The guy who bought it, obviously did so for the engine.
The engine blew up on the way home. Something wasnt right with the
engine, and I think my friend knew it (suddenly wanted to sell the
car REALLY bad). He also tried to sell it to me!! I couldnt afford
it thanks to the Record Industry cleaning out my savings.[xx(]

Not sure if thats good or bad.

Not saying you knew about the engine, just in general - it sucks.[B)]

Tom

N8N
03-20-2006, 11:42 AM
really, it sounds from an outsiders perspective (yes, most people know that I hang out with JP at times, but during the time he owned this car I was actually living in Michigan) like the engine issues are probably due to whoever put the engine together for Warren and that neither Warren nor JP honestly anticipated any issues.

just MHO...

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Kdancy
03-20-2006, 12:02 PM
Tom, it cost far more to re-do shoddy body work then to rebuild the engine even though we are not happy about that either.
That's an impressive parts list and one of the reason's drove over 1800 miles round trip and bought the car along with the pictures in the orginal post by a very experienced Studebaker dealer. Problem is, most all of the work was very shoddy and has had to be re-done. The money would have been better spent down a rat hole. The concept of the car was a good one, the execution of the work sucked. I would never buy another Stude without being able to physically see under the car first. JP had pictures of it but you can not see how bad the floor was in photographs. Work done by all prier owners including the seller sucked. And rust was covered over by newly applied undercoating. The engine was a shocker, especially after we questioned the low oil pressure and was told "not to worry, it's the oil pressure guage". The hybrid carb only worked to around half throttle, the gas line ran thu the electric fuel pump without a filter and the fuel line was the small 5/16 line for a non-SC car. Under hood wire harness made by JP burned up with lack of proper fusing almost burning the car down -maybe it should have? The radiator sat in front of engine just hanging in place with the radiator hoses and the frame brace that runs across with wings under the door ares had the middle section cut out with no support and on and on. I am now abut half way finished re-doing all the shoddely done work before we got it, and it will be a fun car to drive when finished. I just hate that the young man that bought it is still making payments on top of buying all the new stuff he has had to replace.

53commander HDTP
53 Champion HDTP
61 Cursed Purple Hawk
64 Champ long bed V8
64 GT

sbca96
03-20-2006, 04:27 PM
I am feeling bad for opening old wounds. Seriously though, it sounds
like both of you got burned (in different ways) because of whoever did
the original work for Warren. The seller got his Rep hurt, and the
buyer got his wallet hurt. I see both sides here and its unfortunate.
The most important part is that the car sounds like its in GOOD hands
now, and will become what the original vision was. Everyone makes
mistakes (like using caliper bolts that are too long[:0]) but we move on
and become better through the lesson learned.

A friend of mind got burned in this fashion, when he bought a 94 Z28
6 spd from some kid for an unbelievebly low price. He decided to turn
around and sell it on Ebay. The buyer on Ebay wanted the car right
away and did the buy it now price. My friend was still trying to fix
a few things, becuase he didnt think it was sell so quick (I TOLD him
that it would!!) Long story short, the guy was literally waiting to
drive the car home while my friend was finishing a few things, and yes
you guessed it, many other things showed up AFTER the buyer got home.
Granted, even with the things wrong, it was a heck of a deal, but he
felt that my friend was screwing him over on purpose, and that was not
the way it was.

Tom

gaboy
03-20-2006, 05:00 PM
JDP
Very reasonable explanation & sounds like the car was truly worth the "candy" due to the parts content.

I personally apoligise to you JDP for the "GREED" statement for I was not aware of ALL the facts surrounding the sale (or even it was you that sold it) & should have kept "the mouth of the south" SHUT.

When a used vehicle (any make/year) is bought it should be foremost in the buyers mind that it is definitely an "AS IS" sale & that if it breaks in half the only warranty that you get is that you have both
halves!

I commend you JDP for posting the list, responding to the person that posted & again wish to express my appreciation to you for being the gentlemen to post the answer you did.

Now, said all that & rambled on as we have - lets forget the "Hawk from hell" episode & not post again as a courtesy to the explanation that was given.
LM

Studedude
03-20-2006, 05:14 PM
quote:Now, said all that & rambled on as we have - lets forget the "Hawk from hell" episode & not post again as a courtesy to the explanation that was given.Thank you, Tom and Gaboy! I had a big, long, boring post all put together, and your responses made me delete it.

This is the kind of deal we all dread. John is an honest fellow, and got caught in the middle of an unfortuante situation. I feel bad for the new buyer, as well, but it was not a matter of intentional deception on John's part. Honest mistakes were made, and not just by John. He has admitted his, let's move on.

http://www.davesplaceinc.com/sdcforum/logo.jpg
www.davesplaceinc.com

Kdancy
03-20-2006, 06:23 PM
I don't have an issue with Warren. I talked to him at length about the car and who did what to it. Some people are just ignorant while others know better. If some one else asks again about the Cursed Purple Hawk I will tell them exactly what happened.

53commander HDTP
53 Champion HDTP
61 Cursed Purple Hawk
64 Champ long bed V8
64 GT

JDP
03-20-2006, 06:50 PM
Here's the engine as I got it from Warren on his engine stand:

http://stude.com/308b.jpg


and here after I bolted on the blower and installed it in the Cursed Purple Hawk.:




http://stude.com/detail2.jpg

I don't know or even care what happened to that engine some 5 years ago at this point, I've moved on.

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
64 R2 4 speed Challenger
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
63 Daytona Convert.

BShaw
03-20-2006, 06:51 PM
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h53/StudeRobert/Whoa.gifI'm tossing in a moderator caution here because this subject has been discussed in great detail previously on this and the alt.autos.studebaker newsgroup. As both sides of this long-standing regretable situation and personal disagreement between two individuals have once again been presented here, I beg all parties to now let it rest on this forum and let's all move on. If not, I will lock the thread. Thank you.:)

-BShaw
Webmaster
60 Hawk. 49 2R5, 39 Champion