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View Full Version : 1955 PRESIDENT 259 ENGINE - HELP!



RHO
03-04-2006, 07:25 PM
Today we began reassembly of the 259 on the President. We ran into a problem with the timing gears not lining up. The Camshaft Timing gear was about 1/8" too far out. Per the Chassis Parts book Plate 01-7, the engine needs Part I.D. # 104-14 Spacer. We could not find a spacer in the bags of disassembled parts; however we had a parts car engine (both engines PI XXXX #s)that we had taken down enough to have this spacer showing so we took it and put on thhis engine for reassembly. When we got the crankshaft gear on, it sat out about that 1/8." I went and measured the two camshafts from the point where they are flush with the forward engine block and got 1 1/8" on the parts car but only 1" on the engine we are reassembled. Not finding this spacer in the bags of parts and not recalling it, we pulled the crankshaft gear back off (very very difficult, requiring both a puller and small pry bars) and pulled the spacer off. Then put the crankshaft gear back on and now the two gears are in line.
Any idea what the situation is here? It appears the parts car engine crankshaft is that 1/8" longer. The book says to use a spacer, but we had to leave it off. ???

'55 Commander
'55 President

StudeRich
03-04-2006, 07:52 PM
The spacer AND shims are used (per the Shop manual) to set the crankshaft end-play, and are absolutely necessary to have in place, or serious damage will occur!
I am not sure why you have 1/8" difference, but it sounds like you may have the long snout crankshaft used on late '62,'63 & '64 full-flow V-8's! It requires special adapters to use on pre-'62 engines that originally came with the new crank: see "dolsrs" new crankshaft ad in E-Bay (Studebaker Auto Parts Sales Corp.) SASCO South Bend, IN.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Studebaker-NOS-259-Cid-Crankshaft-1955-1964-V8s_W0QQitemZ4618032528QQcategoryZ10076QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Or search for item # 4618032528.

Rich. at Studebakers Northwest



quote:Originally posted by RHO

Today we began reassembly of the 259 on the President. We ran into a problem with the timing gears not lining up. The Camshaft Timing gear was about 1/8" too far out. Per the Chassis Parts book Plate 01-7, the engine needs Part I.D. # 104-14 Spacer. We could not find a spacer in the bags of disassembled parts; however we had a parts car engine (both engines PI XXXX #s)that we had taken down enough to have this spacer showing so we took it and put on thhis engine for reassembly. When we got the crankshaft gear on, it sat out about that 1/8." I went and measured the two camshafts from the point where they are flush with the forward engine block and got 1 1/8" on the parts car but only 1" on the engine we are reassembled. Not finding this spacer in the bags of parts and not recalling it, we pulled the crankshaft gear back off (very very difficult, requiring both a puller and small pry bars) and pulled the spacer off. Then put the crankshaft gear back on and now the two gears are in line.
Any idea what the situation is here? It appears the parts car engine crankshaft is that 1/8" longer. The book says to use a spacer, but we had to leave it off. ???

'55 Commander
'55 President


StudeRich
Ferndale, WA

Roscomacaw
03-04-2006, 08:31 PM
Ahhhh, Rich. He's talking about the little spacer ring on the CAMSHAFT - not Crankshaft.

RHO, are you sure that spacer wasn't already sitting inside that diamond-shaped (iilstr# 0104-16) That's what it's supposed to do - fit the cam but the outer diameter lets it fit into the hole in the thrust plate. NEVER heard of a V8 cam that's 1/8th" longer. Never.

Can you look up from the bottom of the engine? Does it look like the cam journals are fairly well riding the bearings right? Maybe the plug at the rear of the cam bore is driven in too far![:0]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

RHO
03-04-2006, 09:43 PM
Well, I guess I cannot say the spacer was inside the hole of the thrust plate. That may be the key to this thing. (that would mean on the parts car engine, it had come "dislodged" from within the thrust plate. Will have to check that. We used a standard 1.5" freeze plug at the rear just like the other 6 plugs on the side and then the 1.25" plug to the side at the back of the cam shaft. I cannot understanbd the 1/8" either. Both measured at the where the camshaft is flush with the engine block hole and perhaps better terminology would be on the parts car engine, the camshaft protrudes 1/8" further out.


'55 Commander
'55 President

RHO
03-04-2006, 09:53 PM
Unfortunately, to check if the spacer is within the envelope of the thrust plate will necessitate pulling that gear off again and it is really hard; much more difficult than when we pulled the old one off the car. I'm hoping this is the case, the spacer is indeed there because we have a perfect alignment of the two gears.

'55 Commander
'55 President

RHO
03-04-2006, 10:14 PM
Is it possible to assume that if I have the two timing gears in perfect alignment, then the spacer must indeed be in there? Right now there is very slight play in the cam shaft.

'55 Commander
'55 President

RHO
03-05-2006, 07:14 PM
OK, have tried a magnet and compressed air in addition to the recommended drill bit/phillips head and cannot get the OPRV removed. We are able to get it just past the little access peep hole, but that's as far as it will go. Any other suggestions?
And, couldI assume that if I have the two timing gears in perfect alignment, then the spacer must indeed be installed? Just want to check before we go backwards again and pull the assembly back apart.


'55 Commander
'55 President

Roscomacaw
03-05-2006, 07:32 PM
That bore for the relief valve just has varnish build-up in it that's keeping the slug from coming all the way out. It's a precision fit - not just something that flops around in there.
I'd say if the gears were aligned, you're probably OK.

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

RHO
03-05-2006, 07:59 PM
Thanks. We'll get the pesky little thing out eventually. And we do have as perfect alignment with the gears as I think could be achieved; that double insert spacer must have been the culprit. Not sure when we'll get back to the engine, but I'm sure we'll need some more help down the line.

'55 Commander
'55 President

RHO
03-06-2006, 11:17 PM
Clarification needed: "that spacer wasn't already sitting inside that diamond-shaped (iilstr# 0104-16) That's what it's supposed to do - fit the cam but the outer diameter lets it fit into the hole in the thrust plate." So this spacer then is NOT designed to actually go between the thrust bearing and the block/camshaft interface but rather it is used to EXTEND the width of the thrust bearing because it is suppose to be just a little bit thicker than the thrust bearing it sits within? Haven't gotten back out there yet, but I've lost confidence that we have the spacer there because of its relative loose fit on the parts car engine nearby and now the guy that was helping me with this believes 100% no spacer is there.

'55 Commander
'55 President

Roscomacaw
03-07-2006, 01:47 PM
right - it's a bit thicker than the thrust plate. The camshaft's end play is to be within .003 to .006" If not within this range, either a new thrust plate's to be used OR careful removal of some material of the spacer ring to bring end play into tolerance.
This "play" is determined by measuring the thickness of the thrust plate vs the thickness of the spacer ring.;)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

RHO
03-07-2006, 07:44 PM
OK, thanks. I found a photo of disassembly back in January and it confirms there WAS a spacer on this engine. Looks like we'll just have to get back into it to verify it is there.

'55 Commander
'55 President