PDA

View Full Version : Rear Door Window Removal



studeboy28
02-11-2006, 11:04 AM
I am having trouble getting the window glass out of my 1940 Commander rear door. The shop manual basically says remove garnish molding, remove trim panel, disconnect regulator arm, REMOVE GLASS.
Well I did all of the above. I can move the window up and down in the track but it is not loose enough to turn sideways at any point. The door actually gets smaller at the bottom so I assume the glass comes out through the top?? Do I have to remove the window run along with the glass to get it out?? The manual sure is vague.

28 dictator
40 commander

Roscomacaw
02-11-2006, 06:15 PM
Never been into a 40 Commander before, but if you don't remove (or loosen) one of the runs, there's no way the glass is gonna get out.
You'll have to remove the "cat whisker" pieces too, unless they're stapled to what you call a "garnish moulding". I suspect that's the "frame" around the window opening that's on the INside of the door, no?[:I]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

studeboy28
02-14-2006, 10:05 AM
The run is one continuous piece that goes up one side and down the other. It is held in with two clips inside the door near the bottom of the run. I have loosened all of these. The best I get is the run can be pushed up and down with the glass now. There isn't enough play to lean the window and run out and clear the door. I know there must be a technique for this?? Any other ideas??

28 dictator
40 commander

Roscomacaw
02-14-2006, 11:23 AM
Is there not enough room for the glass to completely slide out of the runs at the bottom? I assume you have the glass channel disconnected from the window regulator, no?

If the glass would go down far enough, could you extract the run and then extract the glass?

If the glass can be lowered beyond the lower ends of the run, then turning it 90 degrees would allow it to come up thru the top.
While the drawings are pretty vague, I have a parts manual that covers your car as well as many other Studebakers.
Looking at the diagram of the 40 Comm rear window - are you sure you can't rotated the glass's rear edge downward while it's in the run (and disconnected from the regulator, of course)?

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

studeboy28
02-14-2006, 08:51 PM
I get what you are talking about but the window is symetical (almost a perfect rectangle. Because of a cut out for the rear wheel well the door is tringular shaped. The window hits the bottom of the door in the rear without coming out of the channels. I will check in the daylight again and see if there is any way to wiggle it to turn side ways but the whole thing is so darn tight..... The window is disconnected from the regulator by the way.

28 dictator
40 commander

kurtruk
02-19-2006, 06:46 PM
Find a friendly (independant) AUTO GLASS shop that has an actual shop location (not one with just an 800 number in the phonebook). The internal operational guts of door windows are not really different from new to old. If the shop is REAL helpful, they'll tell you how to do it. If not, they'll charge you something to do it, but it'll be done. Of course, if you can bring the car with you, all the better.

Roscomacaw
02-20-2006, 01:51 PM
kurtuck,

Have you done such lately? Most the shops I encounter are helpless when it comes to older cars.[xx(]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

kurtruk
02-20-2006, 10:52 PM
Like I said before Bob, it pays to have friends in the right places.;););). But again, they are used to working inside cramped door innards. Today's doors are so thin with lots of extra "safety" stuff stuffed in there as well (Styrofoam,[:0] airbags, etc). Regulators and run channels are all still in use. You just have to find a willing soul.

Not having the applicable parts book, I would guess the "retainer" that the rubber/cloth/felts go in must unbolt somewhere at the bottom.
That would allow you to increase the span. free the glass and then tilt?

Kurtruk

Roscomacaw
02-21-2006, 03:48 PM
Gotcha Kurt. Honestly - I forgot who I was talking to![xx(] Alzdumbers is settin' in.[V]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

studeboy28
02-22-2006, 11:27 AM
I have found no one yet who can figure the window out. The bottom of the run is held in with two clips. I have removed these as I said before but the run sits in a metal u channel so it can't slip sideways in the door. I manged to get one window out by pulling the run up and out with the window still in place. Then with the extra free play I could tip the window endwise and get it out. However I will certainly ruin a new run if I have to put the glass in the door first then bend the new run and stuff it down both sides of the window. It took all the force I could muster to pull the old stuff out around the window.

28 dictator
40 commander

Roscomacaw
02-22-2006, 04:49 PM
As Kurt hinted earlier - is not at least one of those brackets that the "run" sits in, held to the inner panel of the door with some screws? Are those metal channels welded in place? It would be odd if that were the case.[B)]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

studeboy28
02-22-2006, 10:10 PM
The metal u channels are entirely spot welded in place. There are no screws that hold the runs in in this era car (Check the parts book if you don't believe me!) The runs are held in with clips similar to molding clips. One at the bottom on each side of the continuous run. These have an open clamp face that goes around the run and a spring tab that pushes through a hole in the metal u channel the window run sits in inside the lower door.

28 dictator
40 commander

Roscomacaw
02-23-2006, 12:27 PM
I know the sort of "clips" you're talking about. Stude used them almost until the end (maybe TO the end - I can't remember) My 58 wagon uses them.

I don't know what else to tell you. I just thought of a fella who has several late 30 - early 40s Commanders he's restored. If I can find his E-mail address I'll share it with you.[:I] Anybody got George Rhorbach's E-mail addy???

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Champion51
02-27-2006, 01:16 AM
Hi there studeboy. Somehow I just got blasted off of here and lost my message. Will try again. Are you still having problems with your rear window? Anyways, have just had all 4 windows on my 51 Champion out and replaced with new ones. Doesn't sound much different than mine. It is a learning excercise, believe me. But once you've got the technique it goes pretty good. First, do you have a manual for your car and if so, does it not give instructions on the removal/replacement of door windows? Do you have window anti-rattle? You say you have the window channel disengaged from the regulator? Does that mean you have the clips off, or actually have the regulator pulled out and free of the window channel? Before I get into a big song and dance, let me know where you're at and I'll try and give you a hand. I'll check the forum tomorrow night for your response.

Dave D.

Champion51
02-27-2006, 01:46 AM
I initially read your post very quickly and obviously not carefully enough. Everything is a little more clear now that I have re-read the post and the threads from Mr. Biggs in particular. Sorry about that. I will look in the access window of my rear door tomorrow and try to refresh my failing memory as to how everything works. Let me know if you still need the help.

Dave D.

studeboy28
03-04-2006, 05:16 PM
Sorry I was away for a few days. I am still waiting to see if anyone knows the right procedure. I removed one window by pulling the window channel up and out around the glass. Then I could tip the window and lift up and out. I don't know if it is possible to stuff the new window run back in around the glass to put the window back together?

28 dictator
40 commander

Champion51
03-06-2006, 02:17 AM
The window is now out. Am assumming you will replace your old weathered window run with new stuff - which will mean an even tighter fit.
Install it with the two clips and insert your new glass on about a 30* angle, with the rear end in an upwards direction from the inside of the door until the glass will slide freely down through the opening. The top front corner of the glass will be just below the window opening sitting in the window run. The rear lower corner of the glass will be positioned in the window run somewhere around the bottom or just above the door window opening. Slide and work the glass, tilting the back down and the front up a little bit to see where it moves the most freely. At [u]the best location</u>, put downwards force on the [u]upper rear</u> corner and upwards force on the [u]bottom front</u> corner (from inside the door observation window). As tight as it seems, it should pop into place in the channel. I did this procedure with all 4 of my windows and had a couple of them out and in twice. Once you've done it once, its easy. Don't think I would try to put the window run in after however.
If you've tried your best, and worked the glass from every diagonal point on the window run and it is still too tight, try working the glass from the opposite diagonal (with the lower [u]front</u> corner up and the rear [u]upper</u> corner down). It may go this way considering the configuration of your door. I had the regulators right out of the door and you might want to consider doing this. It will give you more working room. Four screws and its out. Make sure you wind it up tight first so it will pull freely out of the observation window.
If you have'nt taken it out, spring back the regulator and line up the 2 slide pins on the metal window channel allowing them to set into the channel. Install your washers and clips. You will probably need to drop a work light into the bottom of the door and have mirror handy to help get those clips on. If the window rolls up smoothly and evenly, you're done. If you have removed the regulator, have someone hold the glass up as high as possible in the run and quickly reinstall the regulator with the 4 screws. Slide the glass down and allow to rest on top of the 2 slide pins. Wind the regulator up just an inch or so, spring back on the regulator and install the slide pins into the channel.
Now, just a word of warning. If you are installing new window run, DON'T TRY AND BEND THE STUFF at the point you want to make a corner or curve. You have to form your two corners by working a bend in the channel from each end and working that bend up the 2 feet or so to where you want your corner. If you measure up from the bottom to where you believe the corner-bend is, and you try to bend at this location, you WILL damage your new window run.
If you need more info, just shout. Good luck.;)

Dave D.
'51 4-dr Champion
Smithers, B.C.
Canada

Champion51
03-06-2006, 02:27 AM
Just also wanted to mention, there is a "regulator adjusting nut" that allows you to adjust the alignment of the glass in the window run. If your window is flopping around and not going up smoothly in proper alignment, you'll have to loosen off the adjusting nut, set the window into its proper upright position and retighten the adjusting nut. It may take a bit of fiddling.

Dave D.
'51 4-dr Champion
Smithers, B.C.
Canada

studeboy28
03-08-2006, 09:40 PM
Thanks for all the help! I think with this plan I may just be successful! i'll let you know next weekend.


28 dictator
40 commander