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Scott
02-09-2006, 05:36 PM
I can understand why Bob wants us to e-mail him directly about comments about the forum policies, but I don't understand the implication that we are not allowed to debate those policies publicly within this forum. I hope that we are, in fact, "allowed" to discuss anything to do with the club, this forum, or Studebakers in general on this forum as long as we hold ourselves to standard etiquette.

JDP
02-09-2006, 05:48 PM
I agree, but please don't lay the blame at Bob's feet, contact the board and let them kmow your feelings. It is our club after all, and the board should listen to our feelings either way. For my part, I'll never post a For Sale ad on here again in case that'll help. Since I do this as a hobby/business I don't want to have the baby tossed out with the bath water on my account.


Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
64 GT Hawk
64 R2 4 speed Challenger
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
53 Street rod

wagone
02-09-2006, 06:17 PM
JDP: I hope what you are saying is NOT that you are no longer going to give us a "heads up" when one of your cars is going to be offered on e-bay. But that is sure what it sounds like--and that stinks!!! Not your decision but the policy forcing you to the decision. Please rethink your decision. After all, you are not advertising the car but merely posting a newsworthy item for us on this forum.

wagone

DilloCrafter
02-09-2006, 06:42 PM
A strict enforcement of that policy will only drive people AWAY from this forum, to non-SDC places on the web where they can freely share information. Instead, the policy should be revised to best serve SDC members, and posts should be moderated and managed in such a way as to prevent such abuses as blatant advertising by non SDC members or by vendors.

So far, I have not seen abuses like those. I think the vendors have shown that they know how to behave themselves on this forum.

However, I have often posted links to vendors' web pages if I felt that one of them had a part or service that met the need of a member who posted a question about their vehicle.

If the current policy does not change, will I be unable to help a member with a publicly placed link that many could benefit from viewing? If so, will I then be forced to answer emails from multiple people who see my post that now must say, "contact me by email if you want to know where I think you can get that part"?

1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
http://rocketdillo.com/studebaker/misc/images/current_AvaCar.gif

Avalanche325
02-09-2006, 07:05 PM
I am a new SDC member. I do not currently own a Stude. I am going to be looking for a car as soon as I educate myself a little more on them.

Seeing links on this forum to cars for sale is a big help to me. I can see what is out there, what prices the cars are really going for, and read what the members here think of them.

I totally understand that the SDC does not want this to turn into a spam and scam site. But I do not see where a link to another site where a car that is of interest to us is being sold is of any harm.

Here is an idea. Why not allow advertising, just like in TW? It could be some revenue for the club. It could / should be members only to post. It would also help people that are looking for cars and parts to find them without having to wait a month for the new TW. It might also keep some cars "in the club" that otherwise could wander off.

Part of my joining the SDC is to help me find a car. The links help.

JDP
02-09-2006, 07:33 PM
This note posted on the news group might be a reason:

"I believe the problem is one of communication in a rapidly changing
market, I have read of objections by older non-internet users that
allowing the cars to be posted for sale on the internet was being
unfair to those whose only access to the ads was through the print
medium of TW, and that all of the desirable "deals" were now being
snapped up before their monthly issue had even arrived, my
understanding is that this was the reason behind SDC requesting a 20
day delay after an issues mailing date before posting an item for sale
on the SDC net site."

Of cource the TW deals are all snapped up by the folks that get their TW first class. :)

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
64 GT Hawk
64 R2 4 speed Challenger
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
53 Street rod

MikeW
02-09-2006, 08:04 PM
If I understand this correctly this is an SDC policy from the Board, not the webmaster interpreting the SDC policy?
So if I have a Studebaker part that I would like to buy I am to wait for my copy of TW to appear? By the way it has never made it to my abode by the 10th of the month. As a matter of fact I am still waiting for this month's and tomorrow is the 10th. This is not the way I could ever purchase a part. So I would have to go to the SDC site anyhow and purchase whatever via the internet. This does not bode well for the hobby.
I for one do not agree with this policy. It certainly should be revisited.




Mike
www.packardhawk.com

rockne10
02-09-2006, 08:26 PM
I can understand both sides of the issue but need to voice my support of the policy.

This forum, indeed this entire website, is wholly licensed to, managed and paid for by SDC, yet is available to all internet users, whether SDC members or not.

Many people have joined SDC after finding this forum and listening to us extoll the virtues of membership.

The vast majority of the membership do not visit the website often and certainly do not participate in the forum. I can say that is their loss. This is a great forum with a lot of participation.

There is also a substantial percentage of members who do not and probably never will own a computer.

The forum is not the place to post a "for sale" ad. It costs nothing and benefits only those who read the forum.

There are 13,000 families who are dues-paying members of SDC. There are 1077 members in this forum. It is appropriate to discuss here those ads that would be of interest to us but THIS IS NOT THE APPROPRIATE PLACE TO POST THE AD!

DilloCrafter
02-09-2006, 08:29 PM
quote:I have read of objections by older non-internet users that
allowing the cars to be posted for sale on the internet was being
unfair to those whose only access to the ads was through the print
medium of TW, and that all of the desirable "deals" were now being
snapped up before their monthly issue had even arrived.

If that is the reason, it's a bad excuse for a reason. Older people who can afford to buy a particular Studebaker vehicle for sale in Turning Wheels (usually offered in the magazine ads at significantly higher prices than what similar ones sell for on eBay) then they can afford a computer. Or, go to the public library and use it! The web is SO easy to use, no one can say they are too old to learn to use this forum.

1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
http://rocketdillo.com/studebaker/misc/images/current_AvaCar.gif

Swifster
02-09-2006, 10:55 PM
quote:Originally posted by rockne10

I can understand both sides of the issue but need to voice my support of the policy.

This forum, indeed this entire website, is wholly licensed to, managed and paid for by SDC, yet is available to all internet users, whether SDC members or not.

Many people have joined SDC after finding this forum and listening to us extoll the virtues of membership.

The vast majority of the membership do not visit the website often and certainly do not participate in the forum. I can say that is their loss. This is a great forum with a lot of participation.

There is also a substantial percentage of members who do not and probably never will own a computer.

The forum is not the place to post a "for sale" ad. It costs nothing and benefits only those who read the forum.

There are 13,000 families who are dues-paying members of SDC. There are 1077 members in this forum. It is appropriate to discuss here those ads that would be of interest to us but THIS IS NOT THE APPROPRIATE PLACE TO POST THE AD!




Sorry, but this is exactly the reason this site needs a major overhaul. And as mentioned above, those who spent first class will get their TW sooner. Maybe to make things 'even' maybe 1st Class shouldn't be an option either. :(

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Lakeland, FL

Ancient Chinese Proverb: "Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown!"

1964 Studebaker Daytona - Laguna Blue, Original 4-Spd. Car, Power Steering, Disc Brakes, Bucket Seats, Tinted Glass, Climatizer Ventilation System, AM Radio (136,989 Miles)

Studedude
02-09-2006, 11:22 PM
quote:Maybe to make things 'even' maybe 1st Class shouldn't be an option either. :(Does the post office get all of the extra $$ for the first class option, or does SDC also charge extra?

Dave's Place
Studebaker Emporium
www.davesplaceinc.com

JDP
02-09-2006, 11:38 PM
I think a little extra to the club for the wrapper at least.
Periodical Class Mail: $27.50
First Class Mail: $60.50

Evne though I pay for first class, I'd have to agree it's very unfair to the rest since most of the bargains go to the first class members. Since I'm close to the printers, I still have a advantage, life is often unfair.

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
64 GT Hawk
64 R2 4 speed Challenger
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
53 Street rod

mjeansonne
02-10-2006, 07:33 AM
JDP I agree with you and with the ban on advertising, such as "For Sale - I have a 2006 Studebaker Champ, want $10.00 for it":D. but I think that if someone sees a Studebaker car or truck or parts for sale on the side of the road, this is a good venue to let folks know. Likewise, if there is a discussion on seat covers, such as which ones to use, I think that you should be allowed to answer that post and show what you have, so as to indicate quality, style, etc. I think we did this in a post before and that type of exchange should be no problem.

Laisez le bon temps roulez avec un Studebaker

65cruiser
02-10-2006, 08:07 AM
quote:Originally posted by rockne10

I
There are 13,000 families who are dues-paying members of SDC. There are 1077 members in this forum. It is appropriate to discuss here those ads that would be of interest to us but THIS IS NOT THE APPROPRIATE PLACE TO POST THE AD!


There may be 1077 members on this forum, but there are only 86 who post on a regular enough basis to have a star by their name. There are MANY that have posted once or twice. That's less than 1% of the membership that see ad postings.

________________________
Mark Anderson
1965 Cruiser
http://home.alltel.net/anderm

http://home.alltel.net/anderm/images/Logo1.jpg

CHAMP
02-10-2006, 08:20 AM
MJEANSONNE, IT'S STRANGE YOU SHOULD MENTION SEATCOVERS. I READ ABOUT THEM ON THIS FORUM A WHILE BACK, I'M NOW READY FOR SEATCOVERS FOR MY STUDE AND CHECKED AND CANNOT SEEM TO FIND THEM IN T.W. GUESS I'LL HAVE TO SEARCH THIS SIGHT OR WHATEVER? CHAMP:(

mjeansonne
02-10-2006, 09:16 AM
Champ;
You're correct, that topic did appear here on the forum. It concerned the two vendors who advertise interiors in TW regularly. Finding them there should not be a problem. I know that one of them contributes quite regularly here on the forum. So I don't violate policy by mentioning their names, look in most any TW in the past if its not in the most recent ones.:)

Laisez le bon temps roulez avec un Studebaker

Scott
02-10-2006, 10:13 AM
65Cruiser makes a good point. If only about 1% or so of the paying members are likely to see a post referring to a car for sale or other services offered, I think there is not much chance of damaging the revenue stream for Turning Wheels. I think the swap page mentioned by someone else is a more appropriate place to go for ads, and it is already up and running, but I don't see much harm in mentioning stuff like that here sometimes.

Are the forum policies somewhere on this site?

On the other hand, if more members knew that this forum can be a place to check for cars for sale, etc. they might be more willing to use the forum! That's good, right?

I could've posted this in the thread for ads on the forum, but since I strated this thread and am interested in the policies in general, I thought I'd post this here.

Avalanche325
02-10-2006, 10:38 AM
The whole thing that lit all of this off (AFAIK)was a link to a car being sold on ebay. It was not a full ad posted here. I considered traveling the 4 hrs each way to see the car, but it was a little too modified and tired for what I am looking for. If ads and links are not allowed, it is NOT going to stop people from putting their cars on ebay. It will just let a few Studes slip away from our club. It will not help the "non-computer" people one bit.

If using a computer in 2006 is deemed "an unfair advantage", there is a need for some new thinking by the board members. People that refuse to use computers are putting themselves, BY CHOICE, at a disadvantage.

I just read in TW (my first one, and I am enjoying it very much) that a chapter elected a 21 year old as President. The young guy got some new things rolling and revived the club. Things have to change with the times or the club will die. The next generation of Studebaker owners, myself included (41), ARE computer users.

The magazine is great and I get it for the articles, not just the classifieds. The articles alone are worth the annual fee.

Scott
02-10-2006, 10:57 AM
Absolutely! Some people are willing to pay for first class postage for the TW issues and that can count as an advantage if you want to see the ads before most of the members. Some people are willing to use the internet to get timely ads and information. That's a choice, too.

Insofar as the policies of the website are concerned I have to admit that I only remember seeing some general guidelines on this site about etiquette. I do NOT remember reading anything about the website policies in Turning Wheels or anywhere else. There are occasional references to website in the annual board meeting minutes, but that's all I can remember.

I think that it is a very, very good thing that this forum is open even to non-members of the club, and I would hate to see anything to restrict its availability to non-members (not that anyone has suggested it yet). It only comes to mind because if we are afraid of allowing posts (ads), then there is the probability that the posts would have to be screened more carefully.

I would suggest to Bob Shaw that an article about the website and its history, policies, etc. should be written for inclusion in an upcoming Turning Wheels. I am sure there are lots of members that still either don't know it exists, or don't know what it's all about.

Laemmle
02-10-2006, 01:07 PM
Ok, it was funny for the first 100 posts Tom, but enough of the not so vailed reference to "fellatio".

Studedude
02-10-2006, 02:18 PM
quote:Originally posted by Laemmle

Ok, it was funny for the first 100 posts Tom, but enough of the not so vailed reference to "fellatio".Glad you broke the ice on that one. I didn't find it funny, from the first time it appeared on my screen. Always thought it was inappropriate for this gathering, and kinda wondered why it was allowed to continue, but chose not to rock the boat. Thanks for speaking up! Otherwise, I enjoy Tom's posts.

Dave's Place
Studebaker Emporium
www.davesplaceinc.com

studegary
02-10-2006, 03:34 PM
quote:Originally posted by Studedude
Does the post office get all of the extra $$ for the first class option, or does SDC also charge extra?

Dave's Place
Studebaker Emporium
www.davesplaceinc.com
[/quote]

Dave, and others, the charge for First Class mailing has always been computed by SDC to work out as a near wash. Entering into this surcharge is the postage for 12 issues along with the envelopes and extra handling by Good Printer's employees/subcontractors.

Swifster
02-10-2006, 04:15 PM
quote:Originally posted by Laemmle

Ok, it was funny for the first 100 posts Tom, but enough of the not so vailed reference to "fellatio".


Gentleman, you have sick minds. This reference has been around since the '60's and refers to drag racing. Some cars had mechanical fuel injection and others used roots-type superchargers (or blowers). This is what the quote is refering to. And the reason I like this quote is that I'm running an Eaton supercharger on my 402 that's going in the Daytona. And no, I won't have to cut the hood.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Lakeland, FL

Ancient Chinese Proverb: "Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown!"

1964 Studebaker Daytona - Laguna Blue, Original 4-Spd. Car, Power Steering, Disc Brakes, Bucket Seats, Tinted Glass, Climatizer Ventilation System, AM Radio (136,989 Miles)

JBOYLE
02-10-2006, 04:45 PM
quote:Originally posted by mjeansonne

JDP I agree with you and with the ban on advertising, such as "For Sale - I have a 2006 Studebaker Champ, want $10.00 for it":D. but I think that if someone sees a Studebaker car or truck or parts for sale on the side of the road, this is a good venue to let folks know.


I agree. I posted the item about the 55 President for sale at a high-end classic car dealer that few SDC members would normally look at. I wasn't trying to sell the car but I thought SDC members might be interested in seeing it. Who knows, it may have been a former SDC car and someone was looking for it...and it's fun to see what prices "our" cars are being offered for.

Also, I'd hate to see the "Save this Stude..." posts go away. If someone knows about a car under dire threat this is a good place to let folks know about it in a timely manner. If all the unrestored cars go to the shredder this club is doomed. After all, Studes aren't like Mustangs or 57 Chevys where you can build one with a catalog and a VISA card.

Sure, let's keep out the obvious commercials (another club's to which I belong site gets a lot of those..idiots offering brake parts or modern cars that have no relation to the club) but let's keep an active dialog going even if some posts look like ads.

52hawk
02-10-2006, 06:39 PM
quote:Originally posted by Laemmle

Ok, it was funny for the first 100 posts Tom, but enough of the not so vailed reference to "fellatio".

Tom,I third the motion! Your posts are always super intelligent,except for that dumb tag line.

Studieous Maximus

wagone
02-11-2006, 02:59 PM
It is a questionable tag line, IMHO as the original use in the drag racing crowd LIKELY had the sexual connotation in mind. I don't find it paricularily objectionable, but some sure could. (And if the original use had a connotation in mind I don't see how a further use could escape it). HOWEVER, I'm glad that someone else is not always "politically correct" either.;);)

wagone

curt
02-11-2006, 06:30 PM
THis is the 21 first Century. Iffin, the form has 1000 menbers, it is not limited to that number. Computers are a fact of life. Let's be open to change. I do think a lock on the subject is a bummer, policy of the club?