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Mike70gtx
02-04-2006, 11:23 PM
Tried removing the drum on my 51 champion. It was frozen and the puller seemed to be pulling the drum off, but the outside of hub was "moving" but the center wasn't. Tried to beat it back and broke it. I guess I'll have to get a torch to get it off. Where can I find another one? And what years are interchangable? My friend said I should just drop a different rear axle in it. Could I get a better brake system by doing that and what rear end/axle would swap out. BTW, what is the gear ratio in one of these 6 cylinders with Overdrive?
thanks

1951 Studebaker Champion
1959 Olds Dynamic 88
1987 Buick Grand National

whacker
02-04-2006, 11:49 PM
I hope you are using the right puller. These tapered axles require a puller with three legs that bolt onto the lug bolts on the hub and a big threaded center shaft that pushes on the axle to pull the drum off. Here is one for sale on ebay now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OTC-Hub-Drum-Puller-Avanti-Studebaker-Chrysler-Mopar_W0QQitemZ4610562309

I have never heard of anyone breaking the drum with the right puller. I have heard of the drum breaking and/or warping using the type of puller that is used to pull gears, that hooks on the outer edge. Don't use a torch, if you have the right puller, it will come off! It does require a BFH to do it right.

To answer some of your other questions, the brakes from a V8 car from 1955 or newer will interchange from the backing plate out all the way around and give you much improved brakes. Or, there are a few disk brake conversions available from Studebaker venders. The easiest thing to do is just to get the right puller and buy a new (or good used) drum and finish the brake job.

Just off the top of my head, without looking it up, I think the gear ratio for a 1951 six is 4:11. It is 4:55 for a 1951 V8.

Mike70gtx
02-05-2006, 12:06 AM
Thanks for the reply. I had a big 3 legged one, but it grabbed on the outside of the drum it seemed like it would work. It was collapsing the drum around one of the inner grooves. It broke when I tried to beat it back in place with the big hammer. In my hurry to get it running so I could drive it tomorrow, just shut me down for a week or more.

1951 Studebaker Champion
1959 Olds Dynamic 88
1987 Buick Grand National

Roscomacaw
02-05-2006, 02:41 AM
You CANNOT use anything but THE correct puller. It pulls by attaching to the lug studs - not the brittle, cast iron drum. :(

You could find a rear end that's close in size, but if you do that and find something with different brakes, you risk having a brake setup where the rear brakes have more power than the fronts. This wouldn't be an unlikely scenario since the brakes on a 51 Champion aren't that great to start with.

Champions of that era tended to have a 4.10 or 4.56 ratio. This gives some zip on take off with fairly economical cruising ability. Figure top end's gonna be about 75MPH on flat land in 3rd O/D.;)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

gordr
02-05-2006, 03:02 AM
quote:Originally posted by Mike70gtx

Thanks for the reply. I had a big 3 legged one, but it grabbed on the outside of the drum it seemed like it would work. It was collapsing the drum around one of the inner grooves. It broke when I tried to beat it back in place with the big hammer. In my hurry to get it running so I could drive it tomorrow, just shut me down for a week or more.

1951 Studebaker Champion
1959 Olds Dynamic 88
1987 Buick Grand National


Well, that was definitely the wrong puller[B)]
AT least you can console yourself with the fact that you are probably only the 15,653rd person to do that.;)

Technically what you want is a HUB puller, not a drum puller. You pull the hub off the tapered axle end, and the drum comes along for the ride. But everyone calls them drum pullers, anyway.

Start by removing the cotter pin from the big nut on the axle end; then unscrew the nut. It should be tight. Take the nut right off, then flip it over, and run back on until it is flush with the end of the axle. This is crucial, as you run a very real risk of mushrooming the end of the axle if you don't take this step.

Then install the puller on three well-separated wheel studs, using the lug nuts, and run them down tight. Keep the puller screw centered on the divot in the end of the axle while doing this. That dog-bone shaped affair on the puller screw is a "striking wrench", and you beat on the knobby ends with a hammer to torque up the puller screw. You will have to beat on it a LOT, with a 2-3 pound hammer. When you think you have it as tight as it will go, give the end of the puller screw a good swat with the hammer, maybe two or three swats. If two or three don't make it pop off, beat on the striking wrench again, and try once more. If the hub continues to be stubborn, just leave the puller on there, tensioned up, and come back the next day. Time works wonders, sometimes.

I'd strongly recommend that you order the shop manual for your car. The whole procedure is detailed in there, as is brake repair, and adjustment of the axle shaft endplay, and packing the rear wheel bearings with grease. The wheel bearings are NOT lubed by gear lube from the differential, although if the inner seal has failed, differential lube may have leaked out and washed the grease from the bearings. You might as well attend to these other chores while the drums are off, because it IS a big job to remove the drums, and they have to be off anyway for the brakes. Make one trip in there, and do it all right, and you can forget about pulling the drums again for a long time.

As to changing up to newer Stude brakes, I'd say: evaluate your intended use of the car. Will it be a daily driver, in modern-day traffic, or just a lightly-used collector car? If the former, I'd recommend you update the brakes, but if the latter, simply make the existing brakes work properly. Note that the brakes on your car use a completely different self-adjuster than what you are probably accustomed to. Parts are available, and new contact plugs should be installed. Note that if you change the rear brakes, you will have to change the front as well.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

52hawk
02-05-2006, 10:28 AM
No one has answered where he finds a replacement drum-.. Mike,go to the 'links' here on the homepage if no body gives you a specific vendor to start with. It should be rather easy to find one.But get that correct puller first!

Studieous Maximus

52hawk
02-05-2006, 10:33 AM
BTW, I have a puller I would loan to anybody nearby,[LaSalle,Illinois.] My memory is not so good,but who has the loaner tool program in SDC??? Seems to me,with a deposit paid,they would ship out the correct tool-[on loan,of course]

Studieous Maximus

Dick Steinkamp
02-05-2006, 11:08 AM
quote:Originally posted by 52hawk

BTW, I have a puller I would loan to anybody nearby,[LaSalle,Illinois.]


I've got one in Bellingham, WA if anyone up here is in need.

-Dick-

Roscomacaw
02-05-2006, 02:13 PM
I HAD a really top-notch loaner. I haven't seen it in years.[V]

I might HAVE a good drum on a rear end out back. IF you are interested, let me know and I'll pull them and check.:)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Roscomacaw
02-05-2006, 07:26 PM
I've got a '51 Champion rear out back that still has one drum on it. Would you like me to pull it and see if it's any good?

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

52hawk
02-06-2006, 09:45 AM
Mr Biggs,your loaner puller is probably right next to that set of ball-joint forks I loaned out about 20 yrs ago. Reminds me of a local machine shop that had some 'loaners'-he had a spiral note book hanging from a wire,when you borrowed a tool it was written down,dated,and signed. I once loaned out an expensive tool,when I needed it back,the borrowee had to hunt up the guy that HE loaned it to! But,I still trust 99% of people..

Studieous Maximus

Alan
02-06-2006, 09:57 PM
The only tool I loan out belongs to my cat and he brings it back every morning.

Roscomacaw
02-08-2006, 12:37 PM
Well, I guess the panic of the moment got addressed or he found another car to drive.:)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Mike70gtx
02-10-2006, 06:08 PM
Sorry it took so long to respond. Thanks for all the replys. I do need another drum. So let me know if anyone has one and how much shipped to texas 75501. It is the one on the rear passenger side. Now that the old one is broken, Can I just forget the puller and get a cutting torch and cut it off? Or will the heat mess something else up? I got the other side off with a steering wheel puller that fit on the lugs something like the actual puller. The puller on ebay is now up to $100 and still has a day to go. The sad thing is, I do have a manual. But I thought (first problem) "It surely can't be that hard to take off".

1951 Studebaker Champion
1959 Olds Dynamic 88
1987 Buick Grand National

garyash
02-10-2006, 06:53 PM
For a temporary solution, go to your nearby AutoZone store and ask at the parts counter about their tool loan program. Then ask for one of these:
http://www.autozone.com/in_our_stores/loan_a_tool/pullers_specialized/flange_axle_fwd.htm
http://www.autozone.com/images/in_our_stores/loan_a_tool/pullers_specialized/27037L.jpg
It's perhaps not the greatest hub/drum puller in the world, but it will probably work for you. You can borrow it for free. You just put down a deposit on it equal to its price, but you get a refund when (if) you bring it back. They have lots of useful tools that none of us need very often.

Gary Ash
Dartmouth, MA
'48 M5
'65 Wagonaire Commander
'63 Wagonaire Standard
www.studegarage.com

Mike70gtx
02-10-2006, 07:04 PM
That looks like it's worth a try. Thanks

1951 Studebaker Champion
1959 Olds Dynamic 88
1987 Buick Grand National

52hawk
02-10-2006, 07:20 PM
Mr Biggs thought he had a drum for you. If you get a used drum it will probably be hub and all,1 unit. So you still need to pull the broken remains from that axle.
I happen to be doing the same job on a 61Hawk right now. Most parts were available from CarQuest,but I had to order some stuff from Studebaker International. You should really be replacing your wheel bearings and seals at this time.[you will probably need all the hardware associated with the shoes also-springs nails clips,etc] Do you have a shop manual for your car??? They are available,get one!!
See lots of info under the topic'my rear end'-this stuff will apply to your car also.


Studieous Maximus

Mike70gtx
02-18-2006, 05:13 PM
Mission accomplished. Mr. Biggs sent me a drum and said I didn't have to pay until I found out it could be turned down. It cleaned up great so it worked, so I paid him a very resonable price. Thanks,
I used the loan tool that garyash suggested. It went on a little tight but worked great. Old hub came right off. Got new one on and headed down the road. My only problem now is that I have to pump the pedal to get my brakes back. I'm assuming there is a master cylinder that could be leaking. I'll look in the manual and see if it has any ideas. Unless someone has one.
Thanks again everyone and God Bless America

1951 Studebaker Champion
1959 Olds Dynamic 88
1987 Buick Grand National