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benny_64
01-23-2006, 02:08 PM
well i finally got the bulk of my carb issues worked ou(swapped 2 barrel to edelbrock 4) but when i it on the road it was misfiring pretty good. so i re-gapped my points, changed my plugs, and it got a lot better but i can still hear a bit of popping. plus, when my car starts to heat up a bit, it hardly idles. maybe a stupid question but with my timing marks lined up, the rotor should be pointing exactly at the number 1 wire...leading to the #1 piston(front drivers side?). now is it the side of the rotor with the metal on it or the fatter plastic end that should be pointing at this wire? i think my distributer may be 180deg backwards. is this possible, and how good can an engine run like this?

notsoslow64
1964 lark daytona
bd_marks@yahoo.com

JDP
01-23-2006, 02:17 PM
The engine will not run if it's 180 out of time, but the piston comes to TDC twice, once on the exhaust stroke, once on compression. You looked at the rotor on the wrong stroke.

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
64 GT Hawk
64 R2 4 speed Challenger
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
53 Street rod

benny_64
01-23-2006, 02:22 PM
aaaaaaahhhhhh, i see, still the misfiring though? it has been like this since i bough the car about a year ago, and i just can't get rid of it.

notsoslow64
1964 lark daytona
bd_marks@yahoo.com

JDP
01-23-2006, 04:40 PM
Check the firing order and plus wires first. It could be a bad valve too, but check the easy stuff first, then run a compression check.

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
64 GT Hawk
64 R2 4 speed Challenger
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
53 Street rod

benny_64
01-23-2006, 04:51 PM
do the pistons count 1-4 drivers side front to back then 5-8 passengers side front to back? and does the firing order on the distributor go clockwise?

notsoslow64
1964 lark daytona
bd_marks@yahoo.com

N8N
01-23-2006, 05:11 PM
nope, 1-3-5-7 driver's side and 2-4-6-8 pass side, dist. rotates CCW (timing gears, not a chain, remember?) firing order 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2

it is possible to get a dist. 180 out, but you have to make sure that #1 is at TDC on its *compression* stroke before you can make that call. Either put your thumb over the plug hole as you bring it up to TDC (you will feel the air pushing your thumb out if you're on the compression stroke) or else pull the driver's side valve cover and verify that both valves are closed at #1 TDC. Then your dist. rotor should be pointing at no. 1.

Even if the dist. is out, just start with #1 wire wherever the rotor is pointing and work around. easier than pulling the dist. and reinstalling it, unless you're one of those guys (like me) that likes to have everything "by the book" and it will bother you if it's not right.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

benny_64
01-23-2006, 05:21 PM
should the rotors "big side" or the side with the metal tab be pointing at the #1 at tdc?

notsoslow64
1964 lark daytona
bd_marks@yahoo.com

studegary
01-23-2006, 05:52 PM
quote:Originally posted by benny_64

should the rotors "big side" or the side with the metal tab be pointing at the #1 at tdc?

notsoslow64
1964 lark daytona
bd_marks@yahoo.com


The side with the electrode/"metal tab". That's #1, TDC, compression stroke.

benny_64
01-24-2006, 10:31 AM
well i checked all my wires, gapped my points again, and played with the timing. on start up it runs great, but once it warms up it starts to misfire, worse then before, and especially at higher rpms. is this a timing problem? one other thing is i noticed the cam in my distributer is a little worn down. could spring tension cause this misfiring?

notsoslow64
1964 lark daytona
bd_marks@yahoo.com

JDP
01-24-2006, 10:51 AM
Hot misfiring could be a bad coil, condensor or a valve issue,

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
64 GT Hawk
64 R2 4 speed Challenger
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
53 Street rod

benny_64
01-24-2006, 11:03 AM
probably a valve then, my car sat for about 5 months while i was painting and restoring it, i drove it everyday before that and drive it everyday now. but since it sat it has been smoking a little on start up and puts out a pretty good stink when i get on it, but not a whole lot of smoke. i have a set of heads i got from biggs that i had re-built for a engine i am building, i am thinking of saving up for aluminum heads to put on instead. maybe i'll swap out those heads this weekend.

notsoslow64
1964 lark daytona
bd_marks@yahoo.com

N8N
01-24-2006, 11:34 AM
check your dwell with a dwell meter, if the lobe is worn setting by gap may not be accurate. also check your valve clearances, a valve may be hanging open when hot, set them a little loose and see if that solves your problem.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

benny_64
01-24-2006, 01:54 PM
a buddy of mine at work today said this could be vapor lock. i have never had this problem, so i don't know really how it works. does this sound like a possibility?

notsoslow64
1964 lark daytona
bd_marks@yahoo.com

Bunzard
01-24-2006, 09:06 PM
The one thing in the ignition you didn't mention that probably causes most misfires is the dist cap. A crack, carbon track, oily dirt or moisture can cause crossfiring within the cap or misfiring.
To start lift the cap and cover the dist with a rag. Then spray the inside of the cap with carb cleaner or starting spray and brush it with a soft old paint brush to scour it clean. Spray it again and blow it dry with air. Upon close examination you may see the contacts worn or a crack which indicates a new cap. Replace the cap and test run...this has solved many firing problems.

benny_64
01-26-2006, 05:16 PM
well i got in touch with my uncle, (mechanic for about a hundred years) i brought up to him that my pistons have a lot of carbon/goo build up. he thinks that the reason my car didn't act up till it was hot was that all the build up was getting so hot that it was igniting my fuel before it was in its full compression. does this sound accurate? well i pulled my heads cleaned up the pistons, put on my oter set of heads, and fired it up. it idled perfect, i let it warm up for a bit then re-torqed the heads. so now i am ready to make my valve adjustments. any advise would be great. i have never done the valves on a stude and have done minimal prior to this. is it possible to set everything accuratly with the engine off and cold, without the aid of a light bulb connected to the ignition? thanks for any help. benny.

notsoslow64
1964 lark daytona
bd_marks@yahoo.com

N8N
01-26-2006, 05:37 PM
dang, wish I had caught this before you went to the trouble of swapping heads. anyway if this happens to anyone else you can try some "GM Top Engine Cleaner," my FLAPS has it in a spray can now (used to be only available in liquid which is more difficult/dangerous to use) basically just take the car for a drive and get it good and hot, then spray the whole can down the carb while running the engine at a fast idle, let sit 15 min, go for another drive. should blow out most of the carbon. Also a 20 oz, bottle of water drizzled down the carb will do the same thing but again this is dangerous, if you sneeze you can hydrolock your engine. I just did this to my '55 and it cleaned the piston tops pretty well. I will probably do it again right before I change the oil next. Either method will make lots of thick white smoke, so don't do this while your neighbors are having a barbecue (unless you don't like them.) The GM stuff supposedly also helps with carbon on the backs of the valves which is probably not uncommon with the typical rock hard Stude valve stem seals.

If you have a lot of carbon buildup you may need new valve stem seals, Phil Harris sells some new ones that are made from a better rubber than the originals (wish I'd known that before I replaced mine! I'll be buying the next ones from him.)

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

KevinSheen
01-26-2006, 05:45 PM
N8, That sounds like its within my capabilities. One question though. When its sitting for 15 minutes, is it idling or off? Thanks. Kevin in the Stoogebaker

1963 Champ

benny_64
01-26-2006, 06:22 PM
i wouldn't have pulled the heads but i had that extra set right there with new valve seats, hot tanked, plained, etc. i don't mind the work and really want to save up for aluminum heads to put on the next engine going in my car. so i am happy to get some use out of them now.

notsoslow64
1964 lark daytona
bd_marks@yahoo.com

N8N
01-26-2006, 06:54 PM
the directions on the stuff say to let it sit with the engine off. I guess this lets the stuff soak into whatever deposits remain and soften them up a little.

Benny, I can understand that, I'm just chea^H^H^H^Hfrugal and would have tried to clean 'em up first so as to not waste a pair of head gaskets. Yeah, I know... In any case unless you have a ring or carb issue you should be good to go now as I bet a lot of the carbon buildup was from the valve seals. Have you taken it out for a spin yet?

nate

PS - there is a set of aluminum heads on eBay right now

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

KevinSheen
01-26-2006, 07:53 PM
Well I just got back from my FLAPS. They didn't have the top engine cleaner spray you were talking about, N8. The young fellow there tried to sell me engine degreaser.
Anyway, I espied a bottle of Lucas upper cylinder lube with injector cleaners and fuel conditioners. I got the big 32 oz bottle for $8.99. They wanted $3.99 for the 4 oz bottle. Being half Scottish, I am somewhat thrriffty.
This stuff purports to do pretty much the same thing we've been talking about here. Plus they say that this one bottle, and I quote, "should more than pay for itself in fuel savings". The bottle also says, "An over treat will not be harmful". That's a red flag in my book. Remember Momma saying that too much of a good thing is no good?
Now, aside from sailing for a living, I drive truck part time when I have an extended vacation. Over the years, I've discovered some pretty cool radio programs for truckers. They are usually on midnight to oh-dark-thirty, but they all have one sponser in common: Lucas Oil Products.
Now, I'm fairly ignorant about things under the hood. I'm a driver, not a mechanic. But truckers are a pretty savvy lot and they wouldn't patronize a crappy product. At least, not for long.
So I guess I'm asking for opinions. Has anyone used this stuff? Have you had positive results? Should I have started a new thread? Should I have looked up the history and found out if anyone else has talked about this? Am I enjoying this strange new Stude world? Mais, yeah!o Kevin in the Stoogebaker

1963 Champ

N8N
01-26-2006, 08:22 PM
Another similar product I've heard good things about is Seafoam, but I've never used it. Good old water works fine for a maintenance clean-up.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

60Lark
01-26-2006, 10:27 PM
All of the outboard motor manufacturers make a spray cleaner to breakdown and burn off the carbon build up on the pistons, this will also work on automotive engines.

Studebaker Fever
60 Lark
51 Champion
Phil

Scott
01-27-2006, 11:51 AM
I had some of the same kind of timing trouble on my 66 Cruiser. Just to make SURE that it isn't in the distributor, if you can borrow or buy another whole distributor and put it in, you might save yourself a whole lot of frustration. I could NOT tell my distributor was worn just by looking at it. After hours of my time and others' time trying to diagnose the timing, replacing points, condenser, cap, rotor with no success, I broke down and just got a replacement distributor. Once it was put in and the system re-timed, voila!, 95% of problem solved!

Roscomacaw
01-27-2006, 01:03 PM
I've seen and used the water-down-the-carb trick while running the engine at some throttle as a remedy for carbon build-up. It works - to a degree. You just have to be careful to not kill the engine with more water than it can tolerate.[xx(]
I remember we had a Humber limo that had an Austin 6 in it when I was working the car resto place in the 70s. Damned thing would run on forever after it was warm and you'd shut the key off. Carbon build-up and the resultant little "glo plugs" this created, was the culprit.
The Chinese water torture made a world of difference in how the car acted upon shut off!;)

All this noted, I'm not a fan of this method. I'd rather pull the heads and clean it up properly. That's why the english don't call a head gasket set as such. They refer to it as a "Decarbonizing set" - in other words, a set of gaskets required when you do what's necessary to remove the carbon from the cylinders.;)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

N8N
01-27-2006, 01:36 PM
Mr. Biggs - I forgot to mention that I would only do that immediately before changing the oil. Certainly don't want all that stuff floating around in the engine any length of time!

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

studegary
01-27-2006, 03:40 PM
I have had excellent results with Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner on numerous engines, both carb'd. and FI. I have seen engines that were to be torn down due to a "rod knock" brought back to excellent running condition with two cans of this stuff. I had a car that would knock, even on high test gasoline. A half of a can of this stuff and it was fine. It comes in a 13 OZ spray can and the Mopar part number is 04318001. I think that it is only available at the parts department at DaimlerChrysler dealers. Follow directions on the can.

Mike Van Veghten
01-27-2006, 05:54 PM
I use the Valvoline (mostly) and Redline fuel system cleaners....

At least I know for a fact that these two work very well from the port all the way to the piston top and upper cylinder wall at cleaning and keeping things clean.

Just pour in into the fuel tank every oil change.

Water also works...but it's an over time thing. The old water injection system works well. Five minutes in the driveway spraying water down the carburetor isn't gonna do much.
It's easier to just use the fuel system cleaner. That's what it's designed for.