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blackhawk
01-09-2006, 03:23 AM
I have removed tapered axles many times, but never one that has broken at the backing plate. How do I get the remaining shaft (the end with the splines) out of the axle tube without an end to pull on? Do I break the bearing and then fish out the pieces after the axle shaft is removed? Any help would be appreciated. I have a set of the new flanged axles due to arrive any day.

The car is a '64 Cruiser with Dana 44 positrac diffential.

Dale

BobPalma
01-09-2006, 09:45 AM
[?] Dale: Is it broken off more-or-less flush with the outside of the bearing? Or is it broken inside the axle housing so there is nothing currently sticking through the center of the wheel bearing? [xx(] BP

N8N
01-09-2006, 11:09 AM
The first idea that comes to mind is to drill a small hole straight into the axle shaft and try to use a bodyman's slide hammer with a long sheetmetal screw; however, I have never tried to drill into one of those axles so I do not know how difficult that would be.

good luck,

nate

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Roscomacaw
01-09-2006, 11:38 AM
All that should really be holding this in place is the bearing race on that side. Why couldn't you take the backing plate off the opposite side (probably you already have since you're going to install new axles)and give it some >judicious< tapping to get the race on the broken side started out?
If you could get that race out JUST A BIT, you might be able to lever it the rest of the way out using hefty screwdrivers or such. Once you get the race out, you should be able to snag that roller bearing easy enough to yank on it and pull the axle on out.
Don't for get the thrust block that's between the axle ends!;) Likely it'll drop down when you extract the broken axle.[:I]

Of course, my comments are based on the assumption that this thing broke OUTSIDE the bearing - and not inside. STILL, tapping on the opposite axle might just cause the broken part to pop out of the splines if it's broken INSIDE the tube.:(

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1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
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1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Alan
01-09-2006, 03:14 PM
If he can lay the car up for a few days it would be best to pull the rear cover clean and inspect the gears and just reach in there and push the axle out from the center, then he can clean and paint the cover ,put a new gasket on it or even get a chrome one from a 4 wheel drive place and paint some b***s on it.

Mike Van Veghten
01-09-2006, 03:26 PM
Drilling an axle is easy. Axles aren't hard all the way thru. They can't be...they'd be too brittle.

Anyway the slide hammer works fine. What ever the thread is in the end of the shaft, drill and tap the same thread into the axle. Cut the threads off of a standard fastener of the same thread size. Screw it into the slidehammer about half way, then insert and screw the rest into the axle end. A coupla whacks should do it.

60Lark
01-09-2006, 04:09 PM
WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A DANA 44 AND A DANA 27 REAR END ?

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studegary
01-09-2006, 04:44 PM
quote:Originally posted by 60Lark

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A DANA 44 AND A DANA 27 REAR END ?

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Mainly, size of the component parts and therefore strength of the assembly.

65cruiser
01-09-2006, 04:46 PM
17 something or others;)


quote:Originally posted by 60Lark

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A DANA 44 AND A DANA 27 REAR END ?

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60Lark
01-09-2006, 05:36 PM
Are the housing and covers physically different or will they interchange?
Other than the 17 something or others[:o)]

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kmul221
01-09-2006, 07:25 PM
The Dana 27 was used on the 6cyl. & some but not all 259 V/8's
The gears are lighter & not as strong as a 44 as used on the 289ci.
Yes the gear covers are different & one will not fit on the other.
If you look at the "pumpkin-seal" parts #'s in the vendor listings they are different.The Dana 27 will work in your Hawk but you will have to play with spring shackle U bolts & possibly drive shaft length
This swap is not recommended becaue of the lighter duty rating of the 27

DEEPNHOCK
01-09-2006, 09:15 PM
Just weld a bolt to it and yank it out with a slide hammer/dent puller (with a bolt adapter). Just make sure the backing plate bolts are removed.
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by blackhawk

I have removed tapered axles many times, but never one that has broken at the backing plate. How do I get the remaining shaft (the end with the splines) out of the axle tube without an end to pull on? Do I break the bearing and then fish out the pieces after the axle shaft is removed? Any help would be appreciated. I have a set of the new flanged axles due to arrive any day.

The car is a '64 Cruiser with Dana 44 positrac diffential.

Dale



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Roscomacaw
01-09-2006, 09:35 PM
Reading the initial question again, I see this part more clearly now. "Do I break the bearing and then fish out the pieces after the axle shaft is removed?"

With the brake backing plate removed, the main thing that retains the axle shaft is the bearing race. That race is only a slip fit into the end of the axle housing. It may be that you have to resort to the slide hammer approach but my notion is that if you can pry that race out (after all, it's seperate from the tapered bearing that rides on it[:I]), it should be pretty easy to extract what's left of the axle. The splined part has very little grip on the shaft's end.

Let's hope Blackhawk comes back here to enlighten us as to what progress, if any, has been made.;)

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1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

blackhawk
01-10-2006, 12:20 AM
quote:Originally posted by blackhawk

I have removed tapered axles many times, but never one that has broken at the backing plate. How do I get the remaining shaft (the end with the splines) out of the axle tube without an end to pull on? Do I break the bearing and then fish out the pieces after the axle shaft is removed? Any help would be appreciated. I have a set of the new flanged axles due to arrive any day. The car is a '64 Cruiser with Dana 44 positrac diffential. Dale

Thanks everyone for all the creative ideas. I didn't mean to abandon this thread. It was just a long day at work and our time is 1-4 hours earlier than yours, depending on where you are in the country. Anyway, regarding the broken axle. Yes, it broke outboard of the outer bearing, pretty much flush with the backing plate. I have digital photos, but don't think I can post them because I do not have a web site to link to.

I spoke with my brother about this. He broke axles a couple times years ago when he was hotrodding around with a modified 289 in his Hawk. The solution is pretty easy (or so he says). You put a nut on the opposite axle to protect the threads, push in to take up the freeplay between the axles, and rap sharply on the axle with a ball peen hammer (not a sledge hammer; you want a sharp rap). The force is transfered from one axle to the other through the thrust block that is between the axles in the differential. This will pop the bearing on the broken axle out of the housing. He promised to come over and do it for me if I can't manage it by myself :D. I'll let you know how it goes. -- Dale

60Lark
01-10-2006, 12:41 AM
[^]Thanks for the replys to my questions in this thread also, even though they were not really related to Dale's question. My 60 Lark with 259 has a Dana 27 rear end with 307 gears, and I was unsure if there was any way to beef it up with out swapping it out, I think I have a line on a 44, so I will be checking it out.[?]

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N8N
01-10-2006, 05:34 AM
the 44 will work with your brakes, but you will need the correct driveshaft, U-bolts, and spring plates for the 44. I think that is all that you need to swap, someone please correct me if I am wrong.

nate

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62 Daytona hardtop
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jackb
01-10-2006, 08:53 AM
You may have to shorten/lengthen your driveshaft......

Roscomacaw
01-10-2006, 05:32 PM
60Lark,

The book shows an 11/16ths inch longer difference for overall driveshaft length between what's called out for a 60 Lark V8 sedan with a type 27 rear vs one with a type 44 rear (that's either with automatic or 3spd O/D tranny - however, the shafts AREN'T interchangeable between trannys!). 11/16ths inch - just a bit more than a half inch! You might well get by using your old driveshaft if you went to the type 27. BTW, both the 27 & the 44 use the same U-joints in 1960, so that shouldn't be an issue.
Anyone else here think that the slip-joint yoke being worked an extra half inch extended would be a troublemaker???[?]

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1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

curt
01-10-2006, 08:07 PM
Dana 44 was use with the Kaiser 226 cuin flathead six, they just do not break axles in the Kaiser/Frazer aplication, interesting what a few more cuin's does.

blackhawk
01-11-2006, 02:38 AM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

Why couldn't you take the backing plate off the opposite side and give it some judicious tapping to get the race on the broken side started out? ...tapping on the
Mr. Biggs - my apology for not acknowledging your comment. You essentially suggested the same approach as my brother. I was tired and didn't read the posts as closely as I should have before writing my reply. Dale

blackhawk
01-11-2006, 02:46 AM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma

[?] Dale: Is it broken off more-or-less flush with the outside of the bearing? Or is it broken inside the axle housing so there is nothing currently sticking through the center of the wheel bearing? [xx(] BP
Bob - the axle broke where it passes through the backing plate, so there is a small amount of axle protruding past the bearing. How do I post a picture? Dale

blackhawk
01-11-2006, 03:00 AM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

60Lark,
Anyone else here think that the slip-joint yoke being worked an extra half inch extended would be a troublemaker???I think the answer to that depends on how much of the splined shaft is still inside the slip-joint when it is extended and what he has for an engine in that Lark. It might last a long time. But, it surely will wear more rapidly than it would if there were more of the splined shaft inside the slip joint. When my dad modified the driveline on m '61 Champ pickup after I replaced the 6 cyl engine with a 259 V8, he didn't get it quite long enough. The splined shaft is farther out of the slip joint than it should be. That was over 20 years ago and it has seen lots of hard use. It never broke, but the splines are getting pretty worn and now you can easlily move the shaft laterally in the yoke. It is probably time to replace these parts, but it still goes. Dale

blackhawk
02-13-2006, 05:13 AM
quote:Originally posted by blackhawk

[quote]Originally posted by blackhawk

...Anyway, regarding the broken axle... I'll let you know how it goes. -- Dale
The weather finally warmed up and I got back to dealing with the broken axle on my Cruiser. I promised I would get back to everyone after I got the broken axle out. A couple sharp raps on the opposite axle easily popped the bearing on the broken axle most of the way out of the axle housing. But it couldn't push it all the way out, I suspect because the shoulder on the thrust block bottomed out. I tried grabbing the bearing race with large waterpump pliers and tried prying it out, all to no avail. So, I made a couple spacers about 1/8" thick to slip between the bearing and race (after pushing the axle back in). Then I was able to push the bearing race the rest of the way out of the housing by giving it a couple more light raps with a hammer on the other axle. It was really quite easy.

Dale

Roscomacaw
02-13-2006, 01:49 PM
:D

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1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS