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63Avanti
12-27-2005, 05:28 PM
I see a "complete" harness for 63 Avanti for $449.95, at Studebaker International.

1. At other sites, it is $135.00. this is too broad, obviously, there is something missing here.
2. Also, how do I keep the color codes?
3. I would appreciate explicit URLs, thanks!

previous on this topic

quote:Originally posted by Swifster
I'd use a new harness from someone like Painless, Ron Francis or others. I think an OEM harness is an invitation for a fire. JMHO

AMEN to that.
C&L's Parts (http://www.clparts.com/aprodpages/awiring.html) sell the EZ Wiring Mini20 Kit (http://www.ezwiring.com/harness.htm) for about $135.00. p.d.

Terry,
1963 Avanti R2, 63SR1065 http://sterkel.org/avanti
1985 Kubota L2202 (Diesel)
2000 VW Jetta GLS
2003 VW Jetta TDI (Diesel) http://sterkel.org/tdi

Dan White
12-27-2005, 05:48 PM
I would check with:

Studebaker West Full line parts and service dealer. 650-366-8787 (lLet it ring!!!)

They make them and they are on the money correct! I got one for my '64 GT this summer.

As for how much you need to see what you are getting, the whole thing or various bits and pieces.a

Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT

Roscomacaw
12-27-2005, 07:51 PM
I agree with Dan;)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Swifster
12-27-2005, 08:07 PM
Terry, the difference in price can be due to many different reasons. If the $449 harness is a direct, OEM style replacement, it will be (should be) an exact duplicate of what is in the car now. Some places sell NOS (New Old Stock) harnesses, that have never been installed and are original 40 year old parts.

Aftermarket harnesses such as Ron Francis, Painless, EZ Wiring, American Auto Wire, just to name a few, a 'generic' wiring harnesses. These will require a little more work to install. These most likely will not have the OEM color codes, but they are typically labeled by circuit every few inches. In other words, the tail light wiring will literally say 'RIGHT TAIL LAMP'. These are not concourse correct.

The benefit is these harnesses use current technology with a new modern fuse block with color coded, blade fuses. These systems are a lot neater and will decrease the possibilty of your Avanti going up in a blaze og glory. While tearing down my Daytona, I've cut the wiring I know I'll need at length long enough to ensure I can add new, modern connectors, or that I'll be able to reuse the OEM connectors attached to the original 'pigtails'. I've done this with my head and tail lamps. With my car being turned into a hot rod, almost every other connector is being replaced.

Many of the above listed companies sell these harnesses in different configurations depending on your needs. Some have as few as 8 circuits and as many as 24. If your car is more basic (no air, manual windows, locks, etc.), a 12 circuit system many be all you'll need. If it was a 'loaded' car, it may need a 18 circuit system.

As you can imagine, these can come with different pricing based on what your needs are. I bought an American AutoWire 'Highway 22' harness that has 22 circuits for things like power windows, lock, cruise, etc. This ran $315. You can find these types of harnesses cheaper thru resellers than the actual manufacturer.

Also, many of these harnesses can be made 'modular'. You can buy smaller harnesses that are strickly for the gauge cluster, an EFI engine harness (I have a stand alone GM style harness that connects to my main harness), or for a cooling fan (including relays).

Many OEM connectors can be reused. It does require the tedious task of pulling out the original connector pins from the connectors and resoldering new pins on new wire and reinstalling into the connector. Many of the original Studebaker connectors are hot fused and can not be disassembled. This may mean making new connectors or placing two connectors where only one is needed.

Hope this helps. It should be noted that rewiring the car will take about a week. With some organization and few buddies, maybe just a weekend.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Sterling Heights, MI

Ancient Chinese Proverb: "Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown!"

1964 Studebaker Daytona - Laguna Blue, Original 4-Spd. Car, Power Steering, Disc Brakes, Bucket Seats, Tinted Glass, Climatizer Ventilation System, AM Radio (136,989 Miles)

Swifster
12-27-2005, 08:16 PM
URL's

Ron Francis - http://www.wire-works.com/showpage.php?page=main.htm

Painless - http://www.painlessperformance.com/

American AutoWire - http://www.americanautowire.com/

Centech - http://www.centechwire.com/

E-Z Wiring - http://www.ezwiring.com/

Vehicle Wiring Products - http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.co.uk/VWPweb2000/homepage/home.html




---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Sterling Heights, MI

Ancient Chinese Proverb: "Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown!"

1964 Studebaker Daytona - Laguna Blue, Original 4-Spd. Car, Power Steering, Disc Brakes, Bucket Seats, Tinted Glass, Climatizer Ventilation System, AM Radio (136,989 Miles)

63Avanti
12-27-2005, 08:52 PM
I am not interested in concourse correct.

looking to have the best current technology in the stuff "behind the curtain."
As an example, i am rehabbing the original AM/FMradio as it is "in front of the curtain. This is despite the fact that I probably can get a much superior current technology radio for less than rehab.
The wiring is "behind the curtain" Can someone tell me why i should not go with the generic?

So, I can safely use a color 21 wire generic harness?

thanks!





quote:Originally posted by Swifster

Terry, the difference in price can be due to many different reasons. If the $449 harness is a direct, OEM style replacement, it will be (should be) an exact duplicate of what is in the car now. Some places sell NOS (New Old Stock) harnesses, that have never been installed and are original 40 year old parts.

Aftermarket harnesses such as Ron Francis, Painless, EZ Wiring, American Auto Wire, just to name a few, a 'generic' wiring harnesses. These will require a little more work to install. These most likely will not have the OEM color codes, but they are typically labeled by circuit every few inches. In other words, the tail light wiring will literally say 'RIGHT TAIL LAMP'. These are not concourse correct.

The benefit is these harnesses use current technology with a new modern fuse block with color coded, blade fuses. These systems are a lot neater and will decrease the possibilty of your Avanti going up in a blaze og glory. While tearing down my Daytona, I've cut the wiring I know I'll need at length long enough to ensure I can add new, modern connectors, or that I'll be able to reuse the OEM connectors attached to the original 'pigtails'. I've done this with my head and tail lamps. With my car being turned into a hot rod, almost every other connector is being replaced.

Many of the above listed companies sell these harnesses in different configurations depending on your needs. Some have as few as 8 circuits and as many as 24. If your car is more basic (no air, manual windows, locks, etc.), a 12 circuit system many be all you'll need. If it was a 'loaded' car, it may need a 18 circuit system.

As you can imagine, these can come with different pricing based on what your needs are. I bought an American AutoWire 'Highway 22' harness that has 22 circuits for things like power windows, lock, cruise, etc. This ran $315. You can find these types of harnesses cheaper thru resellers than the actual manufacturer.

Also, many of these harnesses can be made 'modular'. You can buy smaller harnesses that are strickly for the gauge cluster, an EFI engine harness (I have a stand alone GM style harness that connects to my main harness), or for a cooling fan (including relays).

Many OEM connectors can be reused. It does require the tedious task of pulling out the original connector pins from the connectors and resoldering new pins on new wire and reinstalling into the connector. Many of the original Studebaker connectors are hot fused and can not be disassembled. This may mean making new connectors or placing two connectors where only one is needed.

Hope this helps. It should be noted that rewiring the car will take about a week. With some organization and few buddies, maybe just a weekend.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Sterling Heights, MI

Ancient Chinese Proverb: "Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown!"

1964 Studebaker Daytona - Laguna Blue, Original 4-Spd. Car, Power Steering, Disc Brakes, Bucket Seats, Tinted Glass, Climatizer Ventilation System, AM Radio (136,989 Miles)

[:I][:I][:I][8D][}:)][}:)]

Terry,
1963 Avanti R2, 63SR1065 http://sterkel.org/avanti
1985 Kubota L2202 (Diesel)
2000 VW Jetta GLS
2003 VW Jetta TDI (Diesel) http://sterkel.org/tdi

Dan White
12-27-2005, 09:21 PM
The choice is yours to make. The Studebaker West harnesses use new type vinyl covered wiring (these are not NOS!) and will be a drop in replacement for your car. I think they are less than $300, my GT was around $265 I believe. They will also let you do some customization if you like by adding wires for accessories, etc. I am not sure what the comment about bursting into flames is all about unless it is directed at the ammeter circuit? Of course you can replace the fuse box with a new style box that is available from various sources that are in this thread. Rewiring does take time and the OEM replacement harness will take less time but the aftermarket will work just fine but make sure you make a circuit diagram if you go this route for the next owner. My 64 GT had a mish mash of original and patched wires that drove me nuts trying to find out why this or that did not work or worked when it was not supposed to!!!! For simplicity and ease I would stick with the Stude West harness.

Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT

Roscomacaw
12-27-2005, 10:30 PM
I don't see NOS or repro harnesses as a knee-shaking blaze in waiting. IF that were the case, there'd be alot less of these cars around for us to "make better".[}:)]
If I remember right, the Avanti has a bank of circuit breakers behind the dash. IF you didn't feel safe with these, you could easily adapt a fuse block from a "modern" car to take the place of those breakers.
Likewise, a fusible link can easily be incorporated into a factory-style harness as well.[^]
I earned many a paycheck assembling wiring harnesses for a whole spectrum of aircraft - from a 2-seat helicopter to the C5-A. The only problems I see with Stude wiring is the pre-56 vehicles that had the cloth-covered wiring. ANY of that stuff that's still in service is trouble waiting to happen. [}:)]
From a cusstom standpoint, one of those You-kin-do-it, one size fitz awl harnesses would be a good alternative. Different engine, instruments, lighting, accessories - it adds up to a whole different nerve network to make it all work.
But to summarily dismiss the OEM setup as a disaster in waiting is stretching it pretty thin.[:o)]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Swifster
12-27-2005, 11:22 PM
The few cars I've seen disassembled had harnesses that looked like nothing but bad spaghetti. The wiring in my Daytona, while all original and uncut, was far from servicable. In some cases circuit breakers may be a benefit, but I don't think that's the case in a street driven car. I've heard of more than one Stude that's burnt to the ground. I certainly won't suggest every car is a ticking bomb, I think there is a lot that can be improved upon. The wiring is a big one.

While you could use the OEM harness while rewiring with a fuse panel, going thru all that grief isn't necessary. The harnesses are as complete as you want them to be. Most are preterminated at the fuse box, while some require connecting the wires to the fuse block seperately. Because the wiring is generic, there are no connectors attached. Enough wire is run in a continuous path to wire the largest of cars. This allows the wiring to be trimed to fit.

As mentioned, the wiring has the circuit stampted on the wire itself. Not really hard to follow a circuit when the name is stamped along it's entire length. With an Avanti, I'd also be sure to get the grounding kit. Without a steel body, there will be many grounds that will be required to keep everything working properly.

I'm actually going to be using a few quick disconnects to service different parts of the harness serperately. This will allow the removal of the gauge cluster, electronic speedometer and tach by disconnecting one plug instead of trying to unwire everything seperately from under the dash. Studebaker gauges are very similar to a set of aftermarket ones. The wiring company just needs to know an amp gauge is being used instead of a voltmeter.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Sterling Heights, MI

Ancient Chinese Proverb: "Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown!"

1964 Studebaker Daytona - Laguna Blue, Original 4-Spd. Car, Power Steering, Disc Brakes, Bucket Seats, Tinted Glass, Climatizer Ventilation System, AM Radio (136,989 Miles)

Roscomacaw
12-27-2005, 11:45 PM
OK Tom, convince me. Detail some of the stories you've heard of Studes burning to the ground because of bad wiring. Make sure that you recount the ones where the wiring had never been tampered with by some "mechanic" before the thing suffered a conflagration.
Studebaker relied on circuit breakers for protection for years and years. You'd think if they were unacceptable for "street driving" that they'd have had a heck of a PR problem in short order if CBs were troublemakers. For that matter, just try and find a fuse on an airplane.[:I]
Not picking a fight here, Tom. Let's air this out and get to the bottom of it.;) Maybe I need to order up Painless kits for my current projects - not to mention my 57 Transtar and 60 ragtop drivers which have been gambling with fate all along.[:0]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Dick Steinkamp
12-27-2005, 11:56 PM
quote:Originally posted by tsterkel

[b]I am not interested in concourse correct.

looking to have the best current technology in the stuff "behind the curtain."
As an example, i am rehabbing the original AM/FMradio as it is "in front of the curtain. This is despite the fact that I probably can get a much superior current technology radio for less than rehab.
The wiring is "behind the curtain" Can someone tell me why i should not go with the generic?

So, I can safely use a color 21 wire generic harness?

thanks!



I'd be interested to know why you want to change the harness. Is it to get the best current technology in that area or is it because you have experienced (or see) some problems with the current harness? If the latter, what specific problems do you have?

-Dick-

Swifster
12-28-2005, 11:43 AM
Didn't Kent's first Lark burn? I wish I'd have taken more pictures before pitching the dash harness. What a mess! At most, the car had three inline glass fuses that I would not trust. The wiring going to the switches are exposed where they connect to the switches, including the ignition. Some have rubber 'boots' that go over push on posts (these are fine), while others are exposed. I don't trust it.

Now, if I'm doing a complete restoration down to the last nut and bolt, I'd buy an original harness and keep the fire extinguisher close by. What Terry (and myself, as well as a few others) is looking at is long term drivability and dependability. If the circuit breaker system was that dependable, every car company would use them. At this point, no one does.

The big three used common connector, fuse protected circuits with print circuit boards. The wiring in my Daytona looks like a poorly designed kit car. Why not improve the durability and safety with a harness using current technology? It's not 1953 anymore.

Circuit breakers can fail and start fires. A failed switch can start a fire (the switch contacts are exposed).

I'm planning either a '64 Challenger or '66 Commander street/strip car similar to the Jimmy Addison 'Silver Bullet' '67 Plymouth GTX. This means using Studebaker and period speed equipment. But the car will have a modern wiring harness. I agree with Terry, if it's 'behind the curtain' it hurts nothing and most likely will improve the drivability.

As mentioned, this is Just My Humble Opinion (JMHO). I have no problem with those that wish to keep their car 100% Studebaker. But this is no different than using Fairborn's flanged axles, or a Hurst shifter.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Sterling Heights, MI

Ancient Chinese Proverb: "Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown!"

1964 Studebaker Daytona - Laguna Blue, Original 4-Spd. Car, Power Steering, Disc Brakes, Bucket Seats, Tinted Glass, Climatizer Ventilation System, AM Radio (136,989 Miles)

Roscomacaw
12-28-2005, 02:48 PM
Well, if Kent doesn't speak up here, I'll ask him pointedly. But I think his cars demise was due to a faulty fuel system component, not rats nest wiring.

I don't find a problem with your intent for your project, Tom. I just have a problem with hollering "fire" because you have a fear of matches and you see a box of them lying on a table.[:I]

One well-meaning sort tried to convince Stude owners awhile back that they WERE tempting fate every time they left the driveway with a tapered-axle Stude![:0] Well, maybe I live a very sheltered existence, but I've yet to know personally, a person who's had an axle snap on them. I DO know that it happens on RARE occassion, but so do parts failures on "modern technology" cars from today's automakers.

My point is - you can't point to one or two failures and condemn all the rest of the like units that are out there. As I said earlier - we don't know what sort of "repairs" might havfe been effected to a Stude's wiring over the years. That iffy factor is much more chancy than what the car came with when new.

One point you mention - the suspect you have for inline fuses. Is it the fuse, the holder or the wiring it's attached to that you find troublesome? The fuse will do it's job if it sees an overload. So how could it be a threat unless some dolt had wrapped the fuse with foil in the past? ;) Mr.Biggs

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Dick Steinkamp
12-28-2005, 08:10 PM
quote:Originally posted by Swifster

Didn't Kent's first Lark burn? I wish I'd have taken more pictures before pitching the dash harness. What a mess! At most, the car had three inline glass fuses that I would not trust. The wiring going to the switches are exposed where they connect to the switches, including the ignition. Some have rubber 'boots' that go over push on posts (these are fine), while others are exposed. I don't trust it.

Now, if I'm doing a complete restoration down to the last nut and bolt, I'd buy an original harness and keep the fire extinguisher close by. What Terry (and myself, as well as a few others) is looking at is long term drivability and dependability. If the circuit breaker system was that dependable, every car company would use them. At this point, no one does.

The big three used common connector, fuse protected circuits with print circuit boards. The wiring in my Daytona looks like a poorly designed kit car. Why not improve the durability and safety with a harness using current technology? It's not 1953 anymore.

Circuit breakers can fail and start fires. A failed switch can start a fire (the switch contacts are exposed).

I'm planning either a '64 Challenger or '66 Commander street/strip car similar to the Jimmy Addison 'Silver Bullet' '67 Plymouth GTX. This means using Studebaker and period speed equipment. But the car will have a modern wiring harness. I agree with Terry, if it's 'behind the curtain' it hurts nothing and most likely will improve the drivability.

As mentioned, this is Just My Humble Opinion (JMHO). I have no problem with those that wish to keep their car 100% Studebaker. But this is no different than using Fairborn's flanged axles, or a Hurst shifter.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Sterling Heights, MI

Ancient Chinese Proverb: "Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown!"

1964 Studebaker Daytona - Laguna Blue, Original 4-Spd. Car, Power Steering, Disc Brakes, Bucket Seats, Tinted Glass, Climatizer Ventilation System, AM Radio (136,989 Miles)



Sounds like the switches (including ignition switch) need to be replaced also in order to get that electrical system where you want it. I'd also think about a fuseable link (or similar device) just in case you get a dead short even with the wiring upgrade.

Folks that are not into the "bone stock" aspect of the hobby are going to "upgrade" those things that they are uncomfortable with (for whatever reason). To some, it's the wiring system, the keyed axles, the stock shifter. To others it's the 50+ year old design of the V8 engine (60+ years for the 6) or the dated automatic, or the lack of an overdrive for the 4 speed stick, or the 50+ year old suspension design, or the dated braking system, or the antique ignition system, or the fuel delivery system, or the uncomfortable seats, or the lack of airconditiong, power windows, cruise control, stereo, shoulder belts, power steering and brakes, etc, etc.

Some justify the changes for safety, dependability, driveablilty, comfort or performance. Some make the changes just because thay want to.

None of the changes are absolutely necessary, but they are all allowed. :)

-Dick-
'54 Starliner Chevy powered street rod
'46 M15A-28 Chevy powered stake bed

DEEPNHOCK
12-28-2005, 08:25 PM
You're going to stir up a s#!tstorm with this, you know[}:)].....
Here's my 2 cents worth;)...
If you want to upgrade your electrical system, then go with a complete 21+ circuit system from Painless, <s>Ron Francis</s>, or EZ wiring, or one of the others listed above. Remember that this is a total replacement system and an upgrade. All the wires will be the same color (black) with writing on them every three inches (or so). You strip everything out of your ride and you start from scratch. (Actually, that is the fun part...cutting out the old stuff and putting it in a big pile on the shop floor. Then you feed your wiring out of the new control box (fusebox is an antiquated term) to the appropriate area and start to hook stuff back up. (solder joints and shrinktube only, if you know what is good for you[V])..
Get a kit that is BIGGER than you need. You can always grow into it, like when you put the DVD player in those Avanti seats[:0] for your X-box, or the neon underneath the hog troughs;))...
Simply replacing your existing harness with a 'correct' harness made out of new material will only give you a new 1963 harness...Which is fine for a judged car, or an unmodified car. A stock, but new harness should take you all the way to the year 2045 (or so)... Are you good enough to go that far?[8)]...
I have installed several aftermarket harnesses, replaced a couple harnesses with stock ones, and manually replaced every frikkin' wire in my Stude(s)... I'd opt for a modern aftermarket wiring harness for my driver...anytime. Not because the old one's are bad...they aren't bad. Just is, the new stuff is better.....:)
Jeff[8D]

[quote]Originally posted by tsterkel
I am not interested in concourse correct.
looking to have the best current technology in the stuff "behind the curtain."
As an example, i am rehabbing the original AM/FMradio as it is "in front of the curtain. This is despite the fact that I probably can get a much superior current technology radio for less than rehab.
The wiring is "behind the curtain" Can someone tell me why i should not go with the generic?
So, I can safely use a color 21 wire generic harness?
thanks!
[quote

DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
'37 Coupe Express
'37 Coupe Express Trailer
'61 Hawk
http://community.webshots.com/photo/42559113/426827941Lsvfrz
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

Swifster
12-28-2005, 10:02 PM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

Well, if Kent doesn't speak up here, I'll ask him pointedly. But I think his cars demise was due to a faulty fuel system component, not rats nest wiring.

I don't find a problem with your intent for your project, Tom. I just have a problem with hollering "fire" because you have a fear of matches and you see a box of them lying on a table.[:I]

One well-meaning sort tried to convince Stude owners awhile back that they WERE tempting fate every time they left the driveway with a tapered-axle Stude![:0] Well, maybe I live a very sheltered existence, but I've yet to know personally, a person who's had an axle snap on them. I DO know that it happens on RARE occassion, but so do parts failures on "modern technology" cars from today's automakers.

My point is - you can't point to one or two failures and condemn all the rest of the like units that are out there. As I said earlier - we don't know what sort of "repairs" might havfe been effected to a Stude's wiring over the years. That iffy factor is much more chancy than what the car came with when new.

One point you mention - the suspect you have for inline fuses. Is it the fuse, the holder or the wiring it's attached to that you find troublesome? The fuse will do it's job if it sees an overload. So how could it be a threat unless some dolt had wrapped the fuse with foil in the past? ;) Mr.Biggs

Bob, certainly not trying to yell 'FIRE' in the movie theater, and stated as such in a previous post. But I'd rather be safe than sorry. I agree a 'compromised' harness is a far greater problem than a stock harness. But, I think there is that great a distance between a modern harness and what Studebaker used.

As for the old glass fuses, I've actually seen a few of these not do their job. I've never seen an unaltered blade style fuse block fail (of course, none of these are 40 years old either [:I]).

Just one note about Jeff's discription above. Many aftermarket harnesses come color coded and stamped with the circuit. It depends on the manufacturer. You can also buy bulk wire if you want to DYI.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Sterling Heights, MI

Ancient Chinese Proverb: "Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown!"

1964 Studebaker Daytona - Laguna Blue, Original 4-Spd. Car, Power Steering, Disc Brakes, Bucket Seats, Tinted Glass, Climatizer Ventilation System, AM Radio (136,989 Miles)

curt
12-28-2005, 10:18 PM
Very interesting topic. I can see a wire shorting and a fire. To put a different slant on the word fire, 20% of our county burned yesterday, grass fires moved so fast you needed a car to out run them. I bet a car fire can go rapid also. Does anyone use the battery connect/disconect switch on their car? I do. But then I did drive every day.

ddub
12-29-2005, 01:00 AM
Not about wiring, one of my pet peeves.

Concourse:1. an assemblage; gathering 2. a boulevard or other broad thoroughfare. 3. a large open space for accommodating crowds, as in a railroad station

Concours: a public contest or competition as in concours de'elegance.

I am a retired teacher, I can't help it.

Mike
12-29-2005, 08:42 AM
I am using the stock wiring harness on my '64 Avanti. Mods are made as unobtrusively as possible.
There are several problems that come to mind with the stock harness and electrical system.
Stan Gundry mentions a couple in his book. Wires in the windshield pillar, to the overhead switches, are vulnerable to the sharp screws in the stainless trim. Bare terminals on the ignition switch are very close to the grounded metal brace behind the dash.
The wire wound resistor for the dash lights is fragile, and vulnerable, in the driver's foot well.
Wires for the neutral safety switch, in the starter control circuit, loop down to the shifter area, even in 4 speed cars, (where they are connected by a shorting plug rather than a switch). This a bad neighborhood for anything electrical. Heat and oil damage insulation. Mine had been pinched and shorted to ground.
Wires to head and tail lights aren't large enough to support double tail lights, or high intensity headlights. I ran a second set of wires all the way to the switches, for an extra set of tail/brake lights; and new grounds to the rear body bolts. I had planned on using high intensity tail lights, but found standard bulbs were very bright, after this. I plan to install relays and heavier wires for the headlights.
The stock Avanti fuse box uses fuses that were different lengths, according to value; to prevent putting the wrong size fuse in a circuit. Some of these fuses are hard to find. I moved circuits to different slots so I could use a larger value fuse where I needed it. Replacement breakers are available in different sizes, that will mount on the fuse box like the stock ones. The box itself was a "class act"; contacts are silver plated.
The neat connectors, that push on over a stud, loosen and can be a bad connection. I like a ring terminal, nut, and lock washer better; especially on the headlight breaker, where there is a lot of current. I ran a larger wire to the switch, too.
Some of the stock electrical parts incorporate circuit protection. The stock voltage regulator and horn relay have breakers built in. Replacements might not.
Mike M.

hank63
12-29-2005, 11:23 AM
Fires from wiring harnesses? Sure, but after how many creative modifications?
After many years of sticking my head under various bonnets I believe

- Cloth-covered harnesses age quicker than plastic covered ones, and thus become more of a risk.
- Plastic-covered harnesses age too, they can become very stiff.
- Generally, fire risk is more often related to qty of creative mods.
- There is generalyy no correlation between car make and fire risk from the harness.

If you take the trouble to replace the harness (recommended), upgrade with more fuses and relays. Minimise lengths of cables with heavy current draw - use relays. Use smallest possible fuse ratings - you want the fuse to be the weakest link. If a fuse blows, find the cause, don't fit a stronger fuse.
/H

Dan White
12-29-2005, 11:40 AM
Here is one mod I think I will make to my GT that makes a lot of sense with regard to lighting:

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/relays/relays.html

Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT

PaulDriver
12-29-2005, 01:15 PM
C and L's Street Rod Parts and Accessories (http://www.clparts.com) sells the Ez Wiring (http://www.ezwiring.com) 21 Circuit, Mini fuse panel, color coded wires with white letter labeling every 5 " on each wire kit (http://www.clparts.com/aprodpages/awiring.html) for $135.00 (per their web site)

Cheap and Safe, just the ticket for a stude person.

p.d.
[fricken el-cheapo forum, don't allow url= tags arrrgh]
Oh, I was quoted in the first post, and I've repeated myself, ROFL!!

Roscomacaw
12-29-2005, 01:23 PM
OK, look.... This is the line that got my attention: " These systems are a lot neater and will decrease the possibilty of your Avanti going up in a blaze of glory"

This intimates that driving with an original or NOS harness in your Studebaker is taunting disaster. It says that what was engineered for your car was dangerous to start with and you're lucky to even have something besides a pile of ashes to be driving in this day and age. Not so.
As I said earlier, I spent most of my working life making, installing or maintaining aircraft electrical systems (and about 10 years designing, fabbing and installing control systems on heavy industrial machinery). I don't wanna boast that this gives me an edge over other car types but I will say that I've seen some cool "rewires" of cars that would make me wanna walk instead of ride.[xx(]
That said, there HAVE been some hot spots identified on some of our beloved Studes. the first that comes to mind is the ingition switches that fall out of the back of the late dashes and short against the brace. (If you're driving a 63 thru 66 Lark type, please insulate the brace behind the ingnition switch![}:)])
Next - and more broad in scope model-wise - are the ammeter connections. Thru age and improper repairs, the ammeter connections have gotten corrroded or loose. Given that these connections conduct all the current the car uses (Save for that that spins the starter), they can get hot if they're not clean and solid. And once they DO get hot and the metal anneals, this only amplifies the problem. Could this cause a fire? Maybe. But it CAN ruin your ammeter and the wiring that's associated with it.
Now with the 55 and older Studes, the prevalence of the cloth-over-rubber insulation can make for a meltdown waiting to happen. But modern, [original-appearance] replacement harnesses use a durable plastic under the cloth outer layer and aren't going to leave you with totally bare wires after some aging. (Granted, a 1955 vintage NOS harness would be inviting trouble, but likely you'd realize this the moment you started to unroll it to install it![xx(])
There's probably other Stude-specific electrical gremlins that have evidenced themselves over time, but if I've heard of them, they don't come to mind at this time.[|)]

Further, I'm NOT saying that a do-it-yourself kit is necessarily bad but the ideal routing of wiring is not always evident to someone with little or no experience. There's also the gained with experience skill of PROPERLY stripping and terminal staking of wire ends. NOT blowing my own horn here, but I do have records showing I've been NASA Spec certified in soldering, splicing and terminal staking.
A poorly made connection can cause as much trouble on a car as on a C5A. The difference is, it's alot harder to coast to the curb from 30K feet.[:0] How many times have you or someone you know opted for a pair of channel-locks or some other sort of pliers to crimp a connector? Hey - it's on there. Whaddya want???[:p]
If an old glass fuse REfused to do it's job, it's probably because someone found one that simply fit the holder and figured a fuse is a fuse. As long as my radio works![^] Human error. heh- in spite of the high-tech, color-coded fuses of today being clearly marked, how much you wanna bet that some yokels will TRY a higher amperage fuse if a specified one blows repeatedly??? You can't engineer out dumb decisions.:(

"Hmmm.. wonder what that burning smell is?[B)] Oh. I see. It's that lug on the ammeter wire that my neighbor "repaired" for me. Gotta be that copper wire getting old - my neighbor knows all about chasin' sparks! That's why he works as a milk truck driver."[:I]

"Dammit! I put all new battery cables on my '54 Commander and now the starter's gone belly up! Glad the guy at NAPA could find the right cables for me!"[:o)]

Nope, I'm gonna stand my ground here. The kits are probably a really good thing if you're going cusstom to much of a degree. For the unskilled wiring sort, they're probably a leg up.
But to say that yo

studegary
12-29-2005, 03:02 PM
quote:Originally posted by ddub

Not about wiring, one of my pet peeves.

Concourse:1. an assemblage; gathering 2. a boulevard or other broad thoroughfare. 3. a large open space for accommodating crowds, as in a railroad station

Concours: a public contest or competition as in concours de'elegance.

I am a retired teacher, I can't help it.



Thanks. This also bothers me, and I was never a teacher (except as a substitute for a few years), but I try to ignore non-Studebaker corrections here. Many car publications get concours incorrect. I have submitted the correction to many publications. I think that either they don't know better or their computers try to "correct" them. I thought that it was Concours d'Elegance. Doesn't the apostrophe replace the other e?

Swifster
12-29-2005, 03:21 PM
quote:Originally posted by studegary


quote:Originally posted by ddub

Not about wiring, one of my pet peeves.

Concourse:1. an assemblage; gathering 2. a boulevard or other broad thoroughfare. 3. a large open space for accommodating crowds, as in a railroad station

Concours: a public contest or competition as in concours de'elegance.

I am a retired teacher, I can't help it.



Thanks. This also bothers me, and I was never a teacher (except as a substitute for a few years), but I try to ignore non-Studebaker corrections here. Many car publications get concours incorrect. I have submitted the correction to many publications. I think that either they don't know better or their computers try to "correct" them. I thought that it was Concours d'Elegance. Doesn't the apostrophe replace the other e?


Yes, it does. There's enough grief on other boards and I ignore the typos. Of course, the above illustrates the old adage of those in glass houses... Thanks!



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Sterling Heights, MI

Ancient Chinese Proverb: "Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown!"

1964 Studebaker Daytona - Laguna Blue, Original 4-Spd. Car, Power Steering, Disc Brakes, Bucket Seats, Tinted Glass, Climatizer Ventilation System, AM Radio (136,989 Miles)

Roscomacaw
12-29-2005, 03:51 PM
There's typos galore - or maybe when it's mispelled because that's the way you spell it, it's a "spello", not really a "typo". Either way, I try not to point them out unless maybe it provides a bit of levity to my warped sense of humor.[}:)]
Axel is actually AXLE, and DUEL is a shootout while DUAL is a pair of something - ummm - like exhausts!:D

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

63Avanti
12-29-2005, 07:49 PM
[quote]Originally posted by tsterkel

I am not interested in concourse correct....


yep, was tired, and should have not posted until I double checked the spelling. I do know the difference...

Terry,
1963 Avanti R2, 63SR1065 http://sterkel.org/avanti
1985 Kubota L2202 (Diesel)
2000 VW Jetta GLS
2003 VW Jetta TDI (Diesel) http://sterkel.org/tdi

ddub
12-30-2005, 01:29 PM
concours de'elegance.




Thanks. This also bothers me, and I was never a teacher (except as a substitute for a few years), but I try to ignore non-Studebaker corrections here. Many car publications get concours incorrect. I have submitted the correction to many publications. I think that either they don't know better or their computers try to "correct" them. I thought that it was Concours d'Elegance. Doesn't the apostrophe replace the other e?
[/quote]


You are right! I hate it when that happens. My bad as the kids say.

Also I like the word spello, most of my typos are in fact spellos.


Now on topic, you guys are scaring me. I am working (at a glacial pace) on a 53 Commander K. I had not planned to rewire but it seems the concensus of this thread is that I should while the thing is apart.

Roscomacaw
12-30-2005, 03:07 PM
Get a new harness from Studebakers West. It's color-coded correctly but it's not the crispy, crumbly stuff that's still in your '53 - assuming it's still using it's original harness;).
I bought one from them for my '53, last summer. Fit great. Looks nice. OR - opt for a one-size-fits-all "modern technology" kit and do it to suit yourself. Either way, don't use that 53 year old wiring. I wouldn't go so far as to warn you that you risk having your Starliner burn to the ground, but you do leave yourself open for a nasty surprize when you least expect it.

BTW - NEW harness or not, carry a fire extinguisher with you when driving your Studee.;)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS