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63Avanti
12-21-2005, 06:08 AM
Advice requested on Stage 1 restoration
Hi!
I will start on the restoration of my '63 R2 Avanti.

The plan is to start slowly and gain experience and
confidence, finishing in about 5 years.

This winter, I hope to
1. repair front seats
2. replace/purge all fluids
3. clean and repair all electricals
4. clean and re-install carpets

Advice is appreciated. (I have the Gundy and the Studebaker books, so you can assume that I will read them several times before starting.)

1. repair front seats
normal wear and tear for 43 years, driver side has something broken in the framing, and passenger side is completely split. I see nothing wrong with back seats.

I plan on taking both front seats out, cutting hog rings and stripping.

* anthing tricky about taking seat out/in?
* source for quality vinyl? please provide URLs,
* should I get premade upholstery or have a custom shop match?
* source for quality foam?

2. replace/purge all fluids
I think you have already answered all my questions on this. I will go with the highest grade synthetic I can find, other than the engine, which needs new seals.


3. Electrical/Dash
Take each electrical connection and switch out, clean with tuner cleaner/lubricant, put back together with dielectric paste.
- I am using electronic chemicals used in the telecom industry

Clock,
does not work, need to figure out what is wrong and repair
- advice on trouble shooting and repair needed
Fuel Gage.
tank runs dry with 1/4 still showing on the guage.
- needs advice
AM/FM Radio
It would be a miracle if it still worked after 43 years! Replace all capacitors and probably the power transisters, use tuner cleaner/lube and work from there
- other than the caps and power, what else tends to go wrong?
- recommendations for quality speakers, do not necessarily need OEM and they will be covered anyway
will be experimenting with either a ferrite or loop antenna, like those used up to ~1949. My older relatives complain that they used to be able to hear AM deep in the valleys of the Rockies when they were young, but not with modern radios.


*Carpet
Other than some wear, in great shape. I plan on removing, cleaning and re-installing. Looked at Corvette sound deadening, mucho expensive. I have found 3/4 inch anti-fatigue padding 36 inch wide on a roll at hardware, Lowes, Home Depot. On the trial run, I took the already loose carpet out, gentle cycled it in the Maytag, air dried, glued it to 3/4 inch anti-fatigue, then glued that to the fiberglass. Gives that old nylon a luxurious feel, and deadens both sound and vibration.
- comments, advice?

that should keep me busy until June...



Terry,
1963 Avanti R2, 63SR1065 http://sterkel.org/avanti
1985 Kubota L2202 (Diesel)
2000 VW Jetta GLS
2003 VW Jetta TDI (Diesel) http://sterkel.org/tdi

DEEPNHOCK
12-21-2005, 08:39 AM
The very best thing you can have...is a plan.
Your post makes good sence.
Try to look into some software (freeware;)) that helps you track your expenses.
Get a filing system set up for receipts, and for notes.
Get a digital camera and take ton's of pictures...
Before and after pic's.
Pic's help on disassemble, because sometimes reassembly is weeks/months later...
I'd stick with automotive insulators/sound deadners.
Getting wet and mildewing is your biggest concern..
Good luck with your project!
Jeff[8D]

Swifster
12-21-2005, 09:28 AM
quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK

The very best thing you can have...is a plan.
Your post makes good sence.
Try to look into some software (freeware;)) that helps you track your expenses.
Get a filing system set up for receipts, and for notes.
Get a digital camera and take ton's of pictures...
Before and after pic's.
Pic's help on disassemble, because sometimes reassembly is weeks/months later...
I'd stick with automotive insulators/sound deadners.
Getting wet and mildewing is your biggest concern..
Good luck with your project!
Jeff[8D]



Along with Jeff's suggestions above, I do the following. It's a little labor intensive, but when the car gets reassembled, I know where that part goes.

I keep ziplock sandwich and freezer bags (or similar brands) and I print out a copy of the parts book showing the exploded view of the part(s) in the subassembly, with the parts in the bag highlighted and part number(s) labeled on the bag. On parts too large to fit in the bags, I keep large wire tags that I can attach to the part (like radiator supports, headlamp mount panels, dash panels, etc.). All subassemblies are boxed together (i.e., hood parts in one box, fender trim and attaching hardware in another and so on).

Having a complete game plan is critical. Knowing what you need to do, and the order you want to do them is very important. It's OK to deviate if the weather dictates. While my gauge cluster my be one of the last things to go in the car, it's also something I can doin the comfort of the house on a desktop. But when those little side jobs are completed, don't throw away any old parts until the car is completed. Sometimes little things my be needed that you didn't plan. And make sure the completed parts are packaged and cushioned for the time it'll be packed away.

Good luck.





---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Sterling Heights, MI

Ancient Chinese Proverb: "Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown!"

1964 Studebaker Daytona - Laguna Blue, Original 4-Spd. Car, Power Steering, Disc Brakes, Bucket Seats, Tinted Glass, Climatizer Ventilation System, AM Radio (136,989 Miles)

tstclr
12-21-2005, 09:56 AM
Pretty much what they said. I have everything I've removed also labelled and placed in ziplock bags. I have those large rubbermaid containers to store the bags in. Take lots of before pics! Funny how bad your memory can be several months later when it's time to put things together. I take things in stages-eg: engine compartment, interior etc. If I think of the car as one big restoration, it get's overwhelming. As for the clock, I have had good luck in the past cleaning the mechanism using a proper oil like sewing machine oil on the gears and cleaning the contact points.

todd


63 Lark 2dr Sedan

hank63
12-21-2005, 10:00 AM
Terry, unless you're experienced in re-upholstering seats, give that task to a pro. It can easily become a major pain.
Fuel tank - there were a couple of posts previously on this topic, check 'em out.
/H

Swifster
12-21-2005, 10:35 AM
A couple other thoughts...

Carpet is cheap. You can pick up complete carpet sets from $100 and up depending on the car.

Only because a Studebaker harness looks like a bowl of spaghetti, find a new NOS harness. They fall apart over time, just like any other car. Personally, unless this is going to be a 100 pt (400 pt?) restoration, I'd use a new harness from someone like Painless, Ron Francis or others. I think an OEM harness is an invitation for a fire. JMHO

There are a few places that can do a complete restoration on Delco-Studebaker radios, inside and out. While I don't consider myself an electrical novice, some things are better left to those who make a living at. Again, JMHO. http://www.wonderbarman.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Sterling Heights, MI

Ancient Chinese Proverb: "Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown!"

1964 Studebaker Daytona - Laguna Blue, Original 4-Spd. Car, Power Steering, Disc Brakes, Bucket Seats, Tinted Glass, Climatizer Ventilation System, AM Radio (136,989 Miles)

Dick Steinkamp
12-21-2005, 12:00 PM
quote:Originally posted by tsterkel

[red] [b]
Advice requested on Stage 1 restoration


Terry,
1963 Avanti R2, 63SR1065 http://sterkel.org/avanti
1985 Kubota L2202 (Diesel)
2000 VW Jetta GLS
2003 VW Jetta TDI (Diesel) http://sterkel.org/tdi


<h4>Terry,
Here's a couple of sources for interior parts for your Avanti...

http://www.stude.com/covers/ (Historic Automotive)
http://www.studebakervendors.com/phantom.htm (Phantom Auto Works)

Historic is JDP's company. JDP posts here often.

I'd also suggest that you look at farming out the replacement of the seat coverings. It isn't easy for an amature and it's relatively inexpensive to have a pro do it. Of course there are those Stude nuts like Gary Ash who can do just about everthing perfect the first time. Here's his site on replacing seat upholstery...

http://www.studegarage.com/upholstery.htm

I'd probably argue with Jeff about recording expenses. From the looks of your plan (and your web site),however, you'd probably do this anyhow. I've done restorations with and without recording expenses, and I prefer without. It only brings me pain to realize how much money I have tied up in a car that will never return my "investment". I also don't know what purpose it serves. It can't help you price the car when you go to sell it (if you ever do). For me, the time and effort to keep receipts and record costs has no value...in fact, negetive value to the enjoyment of the hobby.

Off topic (a little, but still about cars), I see that you have a lifetime average of 49 MPG on your 2003 TDI. I have a 2005 Jetta wagon with the TDI PD motor and TipTronic. I only spot check my mileage. Low 40's around town and low 50's on the highway...probably not as good as your 49 average. I'm running B100, B20 in a pinch. (saving the petroleum products for my Studebakers :D)

-Dick-</h4>

DEEPNHOCK
12-21-2005, 12:46 PM
So you want to argue, huh?:( LOL;)
I wasn't trying to be anal about saving receipts, but I have found it better to save them for future use. I have had more than once the need to go dig through the box'o'receipts to find out what I needed to reorder...sometimes years later. And if you are going to save receipts, they might as well be in order... Especially if you are doing your second Stude..or third Stude ..or...
Jeff[8D]


Terry,
&lt;snip&gt;
I'd probably argue with Jeff about recording expenses. From the looks of your plan (and your web site),however, you'd probably do this anyhow. I've done restorations with and without recording expenses, and I prefer without. It only brings me pain to realize how much money I have tied up in a car that will never return my "investment". I also don't know what purpose it serves. It can't help you price the car when you go to sell it (if you ever do). For me, the time and effort to keep receipts and record costs has no value...in fact, negetive value to the enjoyment of the hobby.
&lt;snip&gt;
-Dick-
[/quote]

DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
'37 Coupe Express
'37 Coupe Express Trailer
'61 Hawk
http://community.webshots.com/photo/42559113/426827941Lsvfrz
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

Dick Steinkamp
12-21-2005, 12:54 PM
quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK

So you want to argue, huh?:( LOL;)
I wasn't trying to be anal about saving receipts, but I have found it better to save them for future use. I have had more than once the need to go dig through the box'o'receipts to find out what I needed to reorder...sometimes years later. And if you are going to save receipts, they might as well be in order... Especially if you are doing your second Stude..or third Stude ..or...
Jeff[8D]


Gosh durn it...I agree with you on that, Jeff. Kind of disapointed that we can't argue, though ;)

-Dick-

DEEPNHOCK
12-21-2005, 02:09 PM
On this last pickup truck I finally broke down and bought one of those platic tub hanging file things from Office Depot. They have hanging files in them with I put in manila folders labelled for each area of the truck. I toss in the vendor instruction sheet(s), templates, and anything related to it. Also put small parts in zip lock bags and write on them with a Sharpie. It has saved me a bunch of time. I filled the first tub pretty quickly and went to a second tub. This danged truck had better be finished before I need a third tub though;)
Jeff[8D]


quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp


quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK

So you want to argue, huh?:( LOL;)
I wasn't trying to be anal about saving receipts, but I have found it better to save them for future use. I have had more than once the need to go dig through the box'o'receipts to find out what I needed to reorder...sometimes years later. And if you are going to save receipts, they might as well be in order... Especially if you are doing your second Stude..or third Stude ..or...
Jeff[8D]


Gosh durn it...I agree with you on that, Jeff. Kind of disapointed that we can't argue, though ;)

-Dick-


DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
'37 Coupe Express
'37 Coupe Express Trailer
'61 Hawk
http://community.webshots.com/photo/42559113/426827941Lsvfrz
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

studegary
12-21-2005, 02:46 PM
You speak of the "restoration" of a 1963 Avanti. It sounds like you are approaching this in a logical fashion and I wish you well. You will probably enjoy doing it (most of the time), however, don't plan on making money on the car - do it because you want to. One point, an AM/FM radio is not correct for a 1963 Avanti.

jjones
12-21-2005, 07:26 PM
About saving receipts and keeping track of what you have invested: think about if some idiot runs a light and t-bones you (happened to a friend of mine) or it is destroyed in some other manner. If you have to fight an insurance company, receipts and totals are a good thing.

jj

Dick Steinkamp
12-21-2005, 07:42 PM
quote:Originally posted by jjones

About saving receipts and keeping track of what you have invested: think about if some idiot runs a light and t-bones you (happened to a friend of mine) or it is destroyed in some other manner. If you have to fight an insurance company, receipts and totals are a good thing.

jj


Insurance Companys don't care what you have spent on building a car. Some will insure it for apraised value, some for agreed upon value. In no case does your "investment" play a role in what the car is insured for. In all cases, you should know before you take that first drive what the payoff will be if it's totaled.
-Dick-

hank63
12-21-2005, 08:08 PM
Dick has a good point. Where I live, you can only get insurance from a few specialist companies if you have an old "special" car. And then it is always "agreed value". Just make sure your insurance policy includes "retention of the wreck", just in case you want to re-surrect your pet project (or use some parts for a replacement copy).
The insurance cost is usually tied to the agreed value.
/H

hank63
12-21-2005, 08:11 PM
Also, if you have a "House & Contents" insurance, check what it says about garage contents. You may have to notify them of your Avanti project, to make sure it is covered while standing semi-dismantled in your workshop/garage/shed.
/H

Swifster
12-21-2005, 10:17 PM
As an insurance adjuster/appraiser, let me jump in here again. Policies can be had from most classic collector insurance companies to cover a vehicle in the restoration/project phase. Let's face it, a car that is 50% finished is just a bunch of loose parts. Keeping receipts for this type of project is a necessity if something were to happen during the build (fire, vandalism, theft, etc.).

My car is insured for over $5000 due to the parts I've purchased for the project. I've upped my coverage from $2500 last July. Any car is more valuable as parts than a rolling vehicle. When the car is completed and collision coverage will be required, an appraisal will need to be completed and supplied to the insurance company to set the agreed value.

As for record keeping, I hate paper. I scan my receipts into the computer and keep the receipts organized by date and location on the vehicle. Also, as I'm sure most claims under these policies are from a fire, I'd keep a back up disc up to date and in a different location. By up to date, I mean within the last month or so. I car is an investment...until you drive it [:o)].

As for homeowners coverage, it may cover loose parts to a point, but it definitely won't cover the car/shell/frame. This is considered a vehicle and is not covered under contents, licensed or not. As always, discuss your needs with your agent and insurance company.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Sterling Heights, MI

Ancient Chinese Proverb: "Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown!"

1964 Studebaker Daytona - Laguna Blue, Original 4-Spd. Car, Power Steering, Disc Brakes, Bucket Seats, Tinted Glass, Climatizer Ventilation System, AM Radio (136,989 Miles)

PaulDriver
12-27-2005, 11:44 AM
quote:Originally posted by Swifster

I'd use a new harness from someone like Painless, Ron Francis or others. I think an OEM harness is an invitation for a fire. JMHO

AMEN to that.

C&L's Parts (http://www.clparts.com/aprodpages/awiring.html) sell the EZ Wiring Mini20 Kit (http://www.ezwiring.com/harness.htm) for about $135.00.

p.d.

imported_n/a
12-29-2005, 12:54 AM
I wouldn't be too pessimistic about that old radio. Though they weren't as sophisticated as modern stuff, they will work fine after many years of disuse. The part most subject to deterioration is the speaker cone. The radio knobs and plastic pushbuttons are next, followed by the volume control and the thread that actuates the tuner. Which reminds me, anyone have a nice 58 radio for sale? Mine is missing.

63Avanti
12-29-2005, 07:19 PM
Interesting that you say that.
When I showed up at my 2nd cousin's with my "new" Avanti, they started reminising about their Studebakers. One item was repeated. In the 50's and 60's they could keep their favorite AM station all the way through the Rocky Mountain valleys. They could not get this reception on modern '70 and later radios.


quote:Originally posted by Cruiser

I wouldn't be too pessimistic about that old radio. Though they weren't as sophisticated as modern stuff, they will work fine after many years of disuse. The part most subject to deterioration is the speaker cone. The radio knobs and plastic pushbuttons are next, followed by the volume control and the thread that actuates the tuner. Which reminds me, anyone have a nice 58 radio for sale? Mine is missing.


Terry,
1963 Avanti R2, 63SR1065 http://sterkel.org/avanti
1985 Kubota L2202 (Diesel)
2000 VW Jetta GLS
2003 VW Jetta TDI (Diesel) http://sterkel.org/tdi

jackb
01-02-2006, 06:16 PM
Good Luck with your project.....adjust upwards your time and money committment about 20%....Also, as others will chime in: I would not go with an expensive Synthetic Oil if you plan to drive the car a lot..and that's what you'll want to do when it's done.....I've never met a Stude V8 that had a real bone dry bottom after ~15K miles on it.......Now I'm sure the first person to jump in and insist "his" engine doesn't leak oil will tell you he gets 24 mpg too.....&lt;G&gt;

57slvrhwk6
01-07-2006, 06:37 PM
Catching up after the holidays. Regarding clock repairs, the South Carolina SDC has an article titled "1956-1964 Studebaker Hawk Clock Repair" posted in their technical section. Says it also applies to other Studebaker models.

52hawk
01-07-2006, 08:29 PM
Save the receipts!! Some nosy people will always ask 'whats it worth?'-or-'how much it cost ya?'...not that you have to answer honestly,but it will be a good fact to know,when it's all said and done.
Also,some day at a car show,maybe you'll park next to the same such car,and it will be interesting to compare notes with the other owner.
And,maybe you will sell it for a big chunk of cash and the IRS will want their share.You may need proof of non-profit to avoid taxes!

Home of the Almostahawk

61hawk
01-07-2006, 10:49 PM
quote:Originally posted by 57slvrhwk6

Catching up after the holidays. Regarding clock repairs, the South Carolina SDC has an article titled "1956-1964 Studebaker Hawk Clock Repair" posted in their technical section. Says it also applies to other Studebaker models.


Actually it's the NC SDC.
http://ncsdc.com/TechnicalPages/ClockRepair.htm

Lee