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View Full Version : What do you think happened?



Transtar56
11-20-2005, 10:18 AM
Was driving my 62 Lark towards the US border yesterday so it could be picked up by a guy whos going to store it untill the new owner can get it home.
This is a stock 259/auto, that as I pointed out very clearly in the E-Bay ad I sold it on that the engine was "tired" and needed going through. I thought the bastard would make it another 200 miles though.
It was a cool morning,around the freezing point,so I started out driving gently to warm up the Lark with Diane my GF following behind me in my new Kia Sorento. We stopped and gassed up the both of them and I let the Lark run as I filled her because she is a tad cold blooded, and I grinned as I listened to the healthy exhaust note coming from the duals.
We got back on the road and about 60 miles later I felt a slight miss, very unusual for this engine,especially while under power. I looked in the mirrior and was horrified to see blue smoke billowing out both pipes, but especially the left (drivers side) bank. I have a set of real gauges mounted down under the instrument panel,and a quick glance at them revealed no problems. As I knew the engine was full of oil,having just checked it before I left, I kept going,because there were no other symptoms other than the smoke,no lose of power or anything. I was thinking broken piston ring, trashed vale seal, so I kept her going.
As we got down the road another few miles the smoking gradually cleared up and stopped, but about this time I noticed the oil pressure had dropped from its normal 40 psi to around 20. I eased back on her and let her coast off the exit ramp into the little town where we had agreed to drop off the car. As I sttopped at the stop sign the oil pressure dropped to near zero,the idiot light came on,and I heard a bad rattle.I pulled in to the closest drivway and shut it down,not wanting to do furthur damage, and phoned the guys wife (he was on his way back from his camp) and explained the situation,where the car was,and then went to the door and asked if I could leave the Stude there for a couple hours.
Diane and I drove back home with me in a deep foul mood.
When I got home I called the buyer and explained what happened, he was understandly quite upset.
First off, any ideas on what might have happened to this original,63k mile engine,Ive never had a Stude V-8 fail on me like that before and I must say my beleif in the damn things have been deeply shaken.
Another thought, since I clearly stated in the E-Bay ad that the car needed an engine re-build in the near future. I also stated that the buyer was responable for shipping the car, though since I knew the buyer through the "other" NG I did agree verbally to drive the car to the border, so in your opinions what are my obligations?
I feel preety sick about it right now and am still damn tired after yesterdays 7 hours of driving and me having to be up for work at 4:30 am.
Just wondering what you all think

Alan
11-20-2005, 10:33 AM
That I am not the only one with luck like that. But if it were me the buyer, the smoking would have started 5 miles south of the border while I was driving it.

oldvinyl
11-20-2005, 11:22 AM
Plugged lifter valley??? PCV could then pull oil into intake manifold. All of your crankcase oil will fit into lifter valley. the only other thing could be a few sets of piston rings decided to pack it in. I have seen sludge block oil return in valley. On the Stude this is rare, I would guess your piston rings. If you have no external signs of oil dripping under car. Only some of the newer studes had PCVs . Tom.

Transtar56
11-20-2005, 11:58 AM
Nope, its a late 62 (full flow) but has a road draft tube which I serviced by flushing it out with varsol just last spring.
The broken piston ring sounds likley, and since I shut the engine down as soon as I lost oil pressure it might not have done to much damage.
We'll never know untill the engine is torn down,but a busted ring sounds logical. Mabey it sort of "re-seated" itself when the smoking stopped. But would that cause so much smoke,Im talking large tire fire here,at least for a few miles. It was so bad I was sure the cops would pull me over but none saw us I guess.

gordr
11-20-2005, 12:40 PM
Man, Robert, that really does suck! Good thing though, that it happened before your eBay buyer took delivery. I remember selling a Datsun which ran well, and the engine blew up inside of a week. I swapped in the engine out the Datsun pickup I was driving just to make the buyer happy. Had the damn thing blown up before I sold it, I could have taken my time fixing it.

It does sound like rings to me, too, or maybe you holed a piston. I think I could find you a set of real nice used 259 pistons if you need 'em.

I guess you have a couple of options here. Either cancel the eBay sale altogether and refund the buyer's money, or offer a partial refund. Might depend on who the buyer is, eh? If the buyer is a Stude person with a couple of good V8's in the barn, they might not be too perturbed about about the whole thing, having already planned on an engine swap.

At least you aren't faced with an eBay buyer doubting your honesty because the engine died the first day HE drove it. That's a good thing.

If you tear the engine down, let us know what you find.


Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

Transtar56
11-20-2005, 12:56 PM
Thanks for your response Gordon, you know I value your thoughts and opinions highly.
Just before I left on this fatefull journey I was reading the post you responded very well to, about the GT in Toronto and Canadians ripping off US buyers,and all the way home I was thinking,"O boy,am I gonna get roasted now".
Fortunately, most of you do know that I wouldn't "take" anyone,but not everybody.
If I was in the position financially,Id buy the car back and bring it back home,but unfortunatly I can't do that right now. The buyer is most defintly a Stude guy and has several others,so it may not be as big a deal to him as say a first time Stude buyer,but I still feel like crap about it.

studegary
11-20-2005, 01:58 PM
I see your delivery favor as turning into a liability for you. The car was still in your care and custody. I haven't had this happen, but I have had cars have problems, like a transmission going out, shortly after selling the car. What I have always done is to offer to buy the car back at the original price or pay for one-half of the necessary repair. I see the 50% payment as similar to a used car warranty. If it happens prior to delivery, I would feel responsible for 100% of the repair. I guess that renting a trailer seems like a good idea in the 20-20 vision of hindsight.

Transtar56
11-20-2005, 02:17 PM
Im thinking along those lines,but heres what I have in mind.
The new owner is a guy who does his own work, if not a Studebaker expert. When he gets the car home and tears down the engine,we will all find out what happened,how much it will cost to put things right,and then come to a deal on it.
Your right too about the trailer, but theres no way I ever dreamed this would happen with this car,I mean I drove it 35k.
But if ever I sell another one on E-Bay their going to be picking it up at my door or no deal!!
Being too nice can get you into problems.
But then,like Gord said, it would have looked worse if the thing had come un-glued on HIS first trip.....

GTtim
11-20-2005, 10:05 PM
Make sure you check the flexible oil line to the gage. It could be the culprit.
Tim K.

Transtar56
11-21-2005, 05:38 AM
No, I looked, nothing obvious under the hood,and that hose was replaced when I did over the car,so its 4 years old at most.

DEEPNHOCK
11-21-2005, 08:16 AM
Ouch...[B)]
Sounds like the engine flush loosened some crud and eventually a clot found it's way to a passageway and you wiped out a rod bearing (Probably up front) and your engine probably has a pretty good ridge at the top of the cylinder. The bearing going bad allows the piston to go up a tad higher and you probably broke a piston ring...
That scenario (swag ;)) would cover most of your symptoms :(
Jeff[8D]




quote:Originally posted by Transtar56

Was driving my 62 Lark towards the US border yesterday so it could be picked up by a guy whos going to store it untill the new owner can get it home.
This is a stock 259/auto, that as I pointed out very clearly in the E-Bay ad I sold it on that the engine was "tired" and needed going through. I thought the bastard would make it another 200 miles though.
It was a cool morning,around the freezing point,so I started out driving gently to warm up the Lark with Diane my GF following behind me in my new Kia Sorento. We stopped and gassed up the both of them and I let the Lark run as I filled her because she is a tad cold blooded, and I grinned as I listened to the healthy exhaust note coming from the duals.
We got back on the road and about 60 miles later I felt a slight miss, very unusual for this engine,especially while under power. I looked in the mirrior and was horrified to see blue smoke billowing out both pipes, but especially the left (drivers side) bank. I have a set of real gauges mounted down under the instrument panel,and a quick glance at them revealed no problems. As I knew the engine was full of oil,having just checked it before I left, I kept going,because there were no other symptoms other than the smoke,no lose of power or anything. I was thinking broken piston ring, trashed vale seal, so I kept her going.
As we got down the road another few miles the smoking gradually cleared up and stopped, but about this time I noticed the oil pressure had dropped from its normal 40 psi to around 20. I eased back on her and let her coast off the exit ramp into the little town where we had agreed to drop off the car. As I sttopped at the stop sign the oil pressure dropped to near zero,the idiot light came on,and I heard a bad rattle.I pulled in to the closest drivway and shut it down,not wanting to do furthur damage, and phoned the guys wife (he was on his way back from his camp) and explained the situation,where the car was,and then went to the door and asked if I could leave the Stude there for a couple hours.
Diane and I drove back home with me in a deep foul mood.
When I got home I called the buyer and explained what happened, he was understandly quite upset.
First off, any ideas on what might have happened to this original,63k mile engine,Ive never had a Stude V-8 fail on me like that before and I must say my beleif in the damn things have been deeply shaken.
Another thought, since I clearly stated in the E-Bay ad that the car needed an engine re-build in the near future. I also stated that the buyer was responable for shipping the car, though since I knew the buyer through the "other" NG I did agree verbally to drive the car to the border, so in your opinions what are my obligations?
I feel preety sick about it right now and am still damn tired after yesterdays 7 hours of driving and me having to be up for work at 4:30 am.
Just wondering what you all think


DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
'37 Coupe Express
'37 Coupe Express Trailer
'61 Hawk
http://community.webshots.com/photo/42559113/426827941Lsvfrz
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

Roscomacaw
11-21-2005, 01:31 PM
Yeah - broken piston rings alone, won't cost you oil pressure.[xx(] I'd be helping the buyer make the engine right.

Heh... 20-some years ago, I sold my 56 President to a young fella that had been buggin' me to let him buy it. 2 years and many thousands of miles later, he wanted to know if I'd at least help pay for the repairs to the 289 in it. It's crankshaft had broken and he figured I owed him some money since he couldn't afford to fix it by himself!:( Right!

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Transtar56
11-25-2005, 06:41 PM
Just got an e-mail from the buyer of the Lark threating to flame me on the other NG about the engine blowing.
He hasen't even got the car yet!
Buyers remorse?
I don't know but I was gonna try and help the guy out but if this is the attitude he takes then **** him and the horse he rode in on ,he'll get **** all from me.
So if your reading this Ron Butts,start flaming away,but why don't you at least look at the damn car first?

52hawk
11-26-2005, 08:56 AM
In my opinion,since you stated on e-bay that the engine would need a rebuild in 'the near future'-you have no liability morally.
Did your ad say as-is??? It's too bad that this happened,but it seems that the 'near future'has arrived.
I sold a pickup on e-bay via the 'buy-it-now'.The buyer was so nice,I agreed to meet her half way to deliver it,[about 250 miles for me,]with another vehicle following me for the ride home.I spent over an hour in a Walmart parking lot,heckling over the price with her and her 2 brothers,even thought the price had been established through ebay-'a binding contract'....yeah.[even though there was no dispute as to condition of truck,and the agreement that it was exactly as advertised,I went home with $400 less than the buy-it-now.]
Well,no more MR NiceGuy here.If I sell another vehicle on e-bay,it will be strictly'As-is-WHERE is.

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