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dclewallen
11-17-2005, 04:22 PM
On my 53 Starliner, I've converted it to 12-volt neg. ground from 6-volt pos. ground. Everythings hooked up and OK but so far I haven't installed my newer wiper motor. The wires on the old motor are [White, Green and Black] on the newer 12-volt motor they are [Yellow, Red, Blue and Black]. I'm assuming I can't use my old switch on the newer motor. If I can how? If I can't, What kind of stock type switch do I need to look for? Thanks for any help Y'all might provide.

Darryl C. Lewallen

Swifster
11-17-2005, 04:44 PM
I would guess the extra wire might be for intermittent wipers? You may need to use an older two speed wiper motor for it to work correctly. I may be wrong, but I think a few have mentioned the wiper moter from '64-'70 Dodge A-100 vans/pick ups is almost an exact fit.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Sterling Heights, MI

Ancient Chinese Proverb: "Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown!"

1964 Studebaker Daytona - Laguna Blue, Original 4-Spd. Car, Power Steering, Disc Brakes, Bucket Seats, Tinted Glass, Climatizer Ventilation System, AM Radio (136,989 Miles)

dclewallen
11-17-2005, 04:51 PM
The wiper motor with the extra wire is a 12-volt Studebaker item that looks EXACTLY like the older 6-volt motor it just has one more wire. Thanks.

Darryl C. Lewallen

N8N
11-17-2005, 05:24 PM
Darryl,

If you get an earlier 12V wiper motor it will match your existing switch exactly. That may be easier than trying to make the 4-wire one work, although I am not honestly sure how difficult that is. In any case, I'm not aware of a later switch that would look right in a '53. I can tell you that a '56 Hawk motor will bolt right in as I just did this on my '55 coupe.

I think the 4-wire motor started in '63 or '64, although I'm not 100% sure about the year.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Roscomacaw
11-17-2005, 07:55 PM
Nate's called it, Darryl. If you get an earlier 12 volt motor from ANY Stude CAR from '56 thru at least 60 on the Larks and thru '62 on Hawks, you should be good to go.
I went out and pulled a motor for a '63 car awhile ago (in response to your question - I'd never considered using the late, 4-wire motor in place of an earlier type) and I see that that 4th wire is there for the Park switch. In fact, two of the wires from that plug only go to the Park switch's two contacts on the gearbox of the WW motor.
All they accomplish by this is a circuit thru the Park switch and back to the High-speed terminal of wiper control switch. This way, when you turn off the wipers, that circuit stays hot long enough to see that the wipers get parked and then that park circuit opens and drops the power to the motor.;)
I think, if you rigged your wires to where the one going BACK to the control switch from the park switch fed it's temporary power to the "High" terminal on the control switch, that would effectively turn your four-wire motor into one that would work with that old, 3-wire switch. If you like, I can wire one up to see if it works like I envision it.[:p] Then I can give you a wire-by-wire color arrangement that you could duplicate.
I used to troubleshoot electrical systems on aircraft, there at the Lockheed-Georgia plant, Darryl. (Darryl lives in Jawjuh.) I ought to be able to figure a way to fudge a wiper motor, eh?[}:)][xx(][:I]
You'll wanna get one of those circuit breakers like's on your switch - only in the 5amp rating. Not that the one you have wouldn't pass current, but you DO want proper protection for that motor, no[?]:D

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

BRUCESTUDE
11-18-2005, 12:15 PM
I JUST REPLACED A 6V MOTOR ON MY '52 COMMANDER W/A 12V UNIT FROM AN EARLY LARK(2 SPEED MOTOR). ONE OF THE EXTRA WIRES WAS FOR THE 2ND SPEED. I REUSED MY ORIGINAL (SINGLE SPEED) SWITCH, BUT SINCE THAT SWITCH "GROUNDED" THE CIRCUIT, I HAD TO RESOLDER THE CONNECTOR SO IT CLOSED THE "HOT" CIRCUIT. I ONLY HAVE ONE SPEED, BUT IT WORKS GREAT.

dclewallen
11-18-2005, 04:25 PM
Biggs, I'd sure appreciate any assistance I could get and Bruce could you go into a little more detail as to exactly what you did to make your earlier switch work. I'm no whizz when it come to electrical stuff. Thanks a heap for the help and info, Darryl

Darryl C. Lewallen

Roscomacaw
11-18-2005, 09:54 PM
I'll work it out tomorrow, Darryl. You'll have both speeds I'm sure.;)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

dclewallen
11-19-2005, 04:29 PM
Thanks Biggs, I went to my friends shop to look at the body work progress today and while I was there I checked out the wiper switch. The switch has three positions. I'm guessing they would be off, low and high but since wipers did not work when I bought the car so I really don't know.

Darryl C. Lewallen

N8N
11-19-2005, 07:17 PM
That's exactly it, you should have a two speed wiper switch. Now how you hook it up... well, when you get to that point post back and I'll pull the switch out of my dash and look at it and draw a little diagram. ISTR some trial and error getting everything working correctly...

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Roscomacaw
11-19-2005, 09:36 PM
I got two wiper motors out today and a switch as well. I didn't get to wire them up tho. I had to take some engine parts up to my friend's shop and we BS'd the afternoon away! :D

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

BRUCESTUDE
11-20-2005, 12:11 PM
DARRYL- THE REASON I USED MY ORIGINAL SWITCH, IS IT IS THE ONLY ONE THAT WOULD FIT UP IN THE DASH.
ANYWAY, (AT LEAST IN THE '52) THE CONNECTOR ON THE SWITCH THAT POWERED THE MOTOR ACTUALLY "GROUNDED" THE SAME. I BELIEVE THIS HAD TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT 6V SYSTEMS ARE POS. GROUND. ON THE SWITCH YOU CAN SEE THAT THE BULLET CONNECTOR IS SOLDERED TO THE CASE, RATHER THAN THE SWITCH RIVET. I USED A SOLDERING PENCIL TO LOOSEN THE CONNECTOR, THEN ROTATE AND RESOLDER TO THE SWITCH RIVET. I,M SORRY, I CAN'T RECALL EXACTLY, BUT I BELIEVE THE 2ND TERMINAL ON THE SWITCH POWERED THE PARK CIRCUIT.
IT SOUNDS LIKE MR. BIGGS WILL HELP YOU WITH THE WIRING.IF YOU ARE STUMPED, LET ME KNOW AND I'LL PULL THE SWITCH TO CONFIRM MY WIRING.

dclewallen
11-20-2005, 04:41 PM
Thanks, Bruce, Nate and Biggs for the help !!!!

Darryl C. Lewallen

Roscomacaw
11-25-2005, 03:05 PM
Well, a week later, I've finally investigated the motor swap in earnest.[:0] The short and easy answer is you can't use that early, rotary style switch with the late, 4-wire motor, Darryl. The reason is that they achieved low speed in the later motors in a different (simpler) fashion than ealier 6 and 12volt motors. [xx(] COULD you get around this using the original switch? - maybe. If you were willing to do some expirimental surgery to the switch contact itself. And I couldn't guarantee the final outcome insofar as to how well the switch would hold up to be lobotomized a bit.
But it would be a whole lot easier to just find an earlier 12 volt motor from ANY Stude car of '56 thru '60 vintage![:0]
Fact is, I've got several of such laying around here that I know to be good units. If ya wanna swap me yours for one of these and pay the postage on both, we'll both be happy.;) Probably you, moreso.
Let me know!:D

If anyone wants to know HOW the low-speed was achieved differently in the later motors, I'll elaborate more. IF you could find (And I'm sure I could) a suitable replacement switch of rotary style, we could easily adapt it. But the way the Stude switch is constructed, I'm not sure it would stand up to being modified.[V]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

dclewallen
11-25-2005, 06:02 PM
Thanks Biggs. I'd be interested in swapping my later motor for one of yours and pay the postage. Where do I send it to. It's a beauty, may not be exactly original paintwise and stainless steel screws but it should work for you. Thanks again. Let me know.

Darryl C. Lewallen

dclewallen
11-26-2005, 02:25 PM
Wait a little while and let me look for another switch before I completly give up on the wiper motor I have. I've already invested alot of time and effort in it. If I can't come up with a suitable replacment switch I'd still like to swap if possible. Thanks very much for the help and offer of a replacment motor.

Darryl C. Lewallen

Roscomacaw
11-26-2005, 05:10 PM
Darryl, you need to find a Switch that has the same number of positions as the one you've got. BUT, it has to differ in this way - the switch you have powers the one wire only in it's first position. In the 2nd position (Slow speed), it powers TWO wires. For that later motor, you need a switch that powers only one wire for fast and one wire in the slow position. Of course, NO wires for OFF. With such a switch, we feed the common contact from an 8amp circuit breaker as well as the blue wire to that late, 4-wire motor. Then the black wire connects to the same terminal as the "Fast" wire does (I think fast speed on the 4-wire motor is red and slow is yellow). Really wouldn't matter if you connected that black wire to fast or slow.[:I] All it's gonna do is provide temporary power until the wipers are in the parked position.;)
The way the contact cam is made inside that original switch, it would be tough to modify it to work well and reliably.[}:)]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

gordr
11-27-2005, 02:02 AM
Actually, I think there IS a way to run the late motor off the original switch. Assuming Biggs is right in that the '53 switch is of the shorting type (first step powers up one terminal, second step powers up both), then the task at hand is to find a way to make it act as a selective switch (first step powers up "A" terminal, second step powers down "A", powers up "B").

That can easily be done with a 12 volt SPDT relay. Practically any of those little 1"-cube automotive relays you can get for a buck at the Pick 'n Pull will have a set of SPDT contacts, and many of them have the pinout engraved on the case.

Connect the first-on terminal of your wiper switch to the wiper/common terminal of the relay contacts. Connect the second-on terminal of the wiper switch to one end of the relay coil. Other end of the coil to ground. Connect "low speed" wire of motor to the N.C. contact of the relay (normally closed, meaning closed when un-energized). Connect the "high speed" wire of the motor to the N.O. contact of the relay (normally open, meaning open when relay is un-energized, closed when relay IS energized).

Note that all wiper motor power still comes through the wiper switch; there is no additional connection to a 12 volt source. The wiper motor's internal park switch will have to get power from a constant 12 volt source; the hot side of the wiper switch is probably a convenient place to get it.

I drew up a little schematic on a scrap of paper, and I'm pretty sure this will work, but it'd be prudent to set up the whole mess on the bench and give it a smoke test.:D

If you want a wiring diagram, Darryl, drop me an e-mail, and I will draw one up and scan it for you.

Basically, the entire job of the relay is to convert the switch from shorting to selective.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

DilloCrafter
11-28-2005, 07:39 PM
I've been following this thread with great interest, as my 55 truck has been converted to 12v, except for the 6v wiper motor and a few other important items. So, I bought a 4-wire 12v wiper from someone who didn't know what year car it came from, and it seemed to work okay on the bench when I was using 6v from my 6v/12v battery charger as power.

Then, I put the motor and the switch in the truck, all wired as was done on the bench, and applied 12v. Reading what everyone had to say on this topic (especially Gordon and that miscreant Biggsy), I can now see why the wire from the battery side to the switch heated up and melted its casing (yes, I thought it would be a good idea at the time to bypass the circuit breaker)[xx(].

Gordon, I'm going to email you for a copy of that wiring diagram you came up with, and I'll bench test (at 12v this time) it all as soon as I get one of those relays.

1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
http://rocketdillo.com/studebaker/misc/images/current_AvaCar.gif