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Yesca
11-09-2005, 05:12 PM
Greetings everyone!

I recently saved a '60 Lark from an assured slow death by neglect. I gave said Lark to my wife as a 30th birthday present. Maybe it wasn`t the best idea.

I have done quite a bit to the car and thought all was well...well..it wasn`t. My big contention is the overdrive. It all seems to be in working order and clean. The freewheeling was working but not anymore. The overdrive was not.. is not. Linkage is fine and in adjustment

Now, reverse no longer cooperates. It slips..alot when engaged. It feels like the rear end, but there is also something grinding away in the transmission. It also gives one good clunk starting off in first since this reverse problem has arisen.

The car is equipped with the 259. It has the manual 3 speed with overdrive.

Any and most all replies or suggestions are appreciated!

Jason

big jim
11-09-2005, 06:33 PM
1st-rev sliderclutch perhaps....

rockne10
11-09-2005, 08:08 PM
I could be speculating but check your motor mounts just to rule them out.

Roscomacaw
11-09-2005, 09:23 PM
Hmmmmmmmmm.... I'd be thinkin' "Sprag Clutch fried". Not a pretty scenario. In your attending to details of the car, did you add tranny oil to the REAR section of the tranny as well as the front section? [V]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

garyash
11-09-2005, 09:40 PM
I'll hope for a simpler, less costly problem. It could be that the cable has slipped on the overdrive lock-out. Normally, the lockout knob is pushed all the way in so that overdrive will engage above 30 mph or so. With the cable pulled out, the overdrive mechanism is prevented from working so your are always in direct 3-speed mode. If the cable clamp screw slipped, or something else came loose, you might be half-way in between. Check underneath that the cable and lever are making full travel to the end of the available motion in each direction.

Gary Ash
Dartmouth, MA
'48 M5
'65 Wagonaire Commander
'63 Wagonaire Standard
www.studegarage.com

Yesca
11-11-2005, 04:06 PM
Thanks to all of you that have replied. Now that I`ve had another chance to go through suggestions and manual troubleshooting, I have narrowed things down a bit. Though I still feel no closer to knowing what is wrong.

The o.d. linkage appears to be traveling the proper distance both fore and aft.

The motor mounts seem to be holding their own.

I do not believe that the Lark is equipped with either a relay or a lockout on the o.d.. Is this "usual"?

I have no idea what a "slider" or a "sprag" clutch is or how to diagnose them.(I`m screwed, huh?!)

The fluid levels were slightly low.

The sound is not coming from the rear end. The driveshaft is not spinning when car is in reverse. The car will not move while in reverse. I can hear gears spinning and not catching coming from the tranny. The sound is as if the reverse gear is partially engaged. All forward gears engage normally.

Anyone have a T-86 with overdrive in Southern California?

Jason

Roscomacaw
11-11-2005, 04:31 PM
There's no relay or reverse lockout on a Lark. That's correct.

If the car goes normally in the 3 forward gears, and makes noise as tho it's trying to move in reverse, possibly, the 1st-reverse rod from the column to the transmission is out of adjustment or maybe the rubber bushing in the transmission's lever for that rod is gone. ( I do see where you addressed this as all being in order though) Such slop would keep you from being able to move that lever all the way into reverse.

The grinding in reverse would indicate misadjustment or failed parts within the transmission section. But the fact you have no more freewheeling in the forward gears means something's askew with the OD section.
Tough to troubleshoot something like this at a distance when your eyes and description are the only windows we have to see with.[}:)]
If the shift levers are snapping into place as you cycle them and the rods are adjusted to attain full travel of each lever in both directions, I'd say you have no choice but to pull the tranny and have a look-see inside it by removing the top cover.
It's not a fun task but it's not that complicated to pull that tranny down to see what's happening inside.[:I]

BTW, if you're looking for a T-86 to replace it with, make sure you get one from a '58 or later Stude. The '57 and earlier have a different tail end that wouldn't be compatible with your Lark.

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

big jim
11-11-2005, 04:36 PM
jason...there is a possibility, based on your last comment that the 1st -rev sliding clutch is worn badly this is the gear that slides on the mainshaft to engage 1st or rev. based on where the stick and linkage are positioned. also a possibility that 1-r shift arm is
partially stripped where it spline onto shift shaft.

Yesca
11-11-2005, 04:44 PM
Well.....shifting into reverse isn`t so smooth. It is a lil' more reluctant and doesn`t quite..."snap".

I have not really inspected the shift linkage as i have the o.d. linkage. I`m not quite sure what to look for on the shift linkage to ascertain the correct and full travel.

Yesca
11-11-2005, 04:49 PM
If the 1st-reverse slider clutch is the problem, wouldn`t that also effect the 1st gear?

stude_s
11-12-2005, 12:27 PM
Sounds a lot like the overdrive freewheel unit/pinion cage assembly![xx(]

The only way to find out for sure is to pull the transmission, and carefully remove the overdrive cover at the back of the trans (be sure to keep track of the yellow spring). I've had this happen on several cars. First freewheeling goes then it won't go anywhere, the trans always shift fine. Basically the pinion cage breaks allowing movement of the pinion bearings and you can guess the rest.

Roscomacaw
11-13-2005, 08:00 PM
stude_s writes: " Sounds a lot like the overdrive freewheel unit/pinion cage assembly![xx(]"

Read that "Sprag Clutch".;)

Yesca, it could be possible for 1st gear to work OK but not reverse.

To check linkage travel, disconnect the fork from the 1st-Rev lever on the tranny. Then push that lever all the way up as far as it will go. You should get the lever to snap into reverse in good, positive fashion.
Now see if the shifter rod's fork (with the column shifter in the reverse position) will go back on, without you having to move that 1st-Rev lever on the tranny to accomodate the fit. If you can't - you need to adjust that fork until it DOES fit the lever when it's solidly in Reverse. Once so adjusted, make sure it can still go all the way to 1st as well. Then test drive it.:D

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Yesca
11-14-2005, 01:36 PM
*Update*

Thanks again for all the help. I think I`ve troubleshot all there is to throubleshoot externally and I still have not identified the problem. I`ll be pulling the transmission this weekend and crackin' it open. I will keep you all updated for your reference as well. Wish me luck!

jason

Yesca
11-14-2005, 05:32 PM
Another thing I discovered when test driving in forward gears is that the car attempts to freewheel when overdrive is not engaged and makes the same grinding noise as when placed in reverse. Thoughts...anyone?

Roscomacaw
11-14-2005, 08:22 PM
Sprag Clutch. And you can't see it by just opening the tranny cover. This thing's located in the aft section of the tranny.

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Yesca
11-14-2005, 11:58 PM
So, as unfamiliar as I am with this car, should I even bother to try and repair this sprag clutch? Are the parts easily obtained? Do you purchase rebuild kits for said assembly or purchase one as a whole? Any ideas where I can aquire these parts?

My wife truly loves this car ...and frankly, what I thought was a most homely looking car, has gained some respect with me despite it`s two or twenty issues.

And, once again , all of your input has greatly expedited my troubleshooting process for which I`m truly appreciative.

Jason

Yesca
11-15-2005, 12:40 AM
On Studebakerparts.com I found a freewheel roller unit. Is this the same thing as the sprag clutch?

gordr
11-15-2005, 12:33 PM
" On Studebakerparts.com I found a freewheel roller unit. Is this the same thing as the sprag clutch?"

Sure is.

Recommend you tear down the trannny before ordering parts. You may find you need more than just the roller clutch assy. Could save you postage by making a single order.

I think SASCO has complete six-cylinder OD trannies on hand; and if yours is badly trashed, that might be the best choice.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

gordr
11-15-2005, 12:35 PM
Oops!

Re-reading your original post, I see the car is a V8. A six-cylinder tranny won't do at all. But any part you need should be available.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands