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dcoffield
11-06-2005, 11:54 AM
I'm wanting to add the twin traction to my 65 Commander's Dana 44.
Does anyone know a good place to get one (I guess I just need the guts, and maybe a new gearing)?

How difficult is it to do this upgrade, or should I take it to a pro?

dcoffield
11-06-2005, 12:06 PM
Also, what would be a reasonable price for the t t unit?

Roscomacaw
11-06-2005, 12:33 PM
SASCO has them. They've been offering them on ebay of late.:D

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Chicken Hawk
11-06-2005, 01:40 PM
quote:Originally posted by dcoffield

I'm wanting to add the twin traction to my 65 Commander's Dana 44.
Does anyone know a good place to get one (I guess I just need the guts, and maybe a new gearing)?

How difficult is it to do this upgrade, or should I take it to a pro?


I have one that is for the flanged axles. I understand a few '65's came with tapered axles before they started using the flanged. The tapered have 19 splines and the flange 27 I believe. Also, you need to know what gear you have. More than likely you have a 3.73 or lower numerical gear. Those take one unit and the 3.92 and higher number takes another.

Let me know what your gear ratio is and for sure if it has flanged axles. If it matches what I have, you can name your price plus shipping and I'll send it to you. I saved it from a salvaged car so I can only assume it was ok but no guarantee.

Ted

dcoffield
11-06-2005, 01:49 PM
I have a 3.31

How can I tell if it's tapered or flanged?

Transtar60
11-06-2005, 03:59 PM
Take your rear wheel cover/hubcap off. Look at the center of the wheel(commonly refered to as the pilot hole,fits over the hub on the fronts). If its a tapered axle, there will be an castellated axle nut there. If flanged the axle will not have a nut there, just a flat machined surface.

Roscomacaw
11-06-2005, 04:00 PM
If you take a hub cap off, there's a big nut showing in the center hole of the wheel if it's a tapered axle unit. If it's a flanged axle rear, it won't have a big nut showing in that center hole.;)

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1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

dcoffield
11-06-2005, 04:30 PM
I'm not sure what a castellated nut looks like but here is a pic of the area. It's not a flat machined surface.

http://www.dougs-stuff.com/Studebaker/Rear%20Axel.JPG

Alan
11-06-2005, 04:53 PM
Flanged, lucky guy!

Roscomacaw
11-06-2005, 05:46 PM
A castellated nut's the kind with notches cut into it for a cotter pin to fit thru. ;) Do you know what a cotter pin is?:D

Yup, that's a flanged axle rear. What it means (more than anything to us Stude nuts) is that you can service the rear brakes on your car without having to fight with the drum&hub puller.[xx(] They only went to this type of rear axle during the last two years of production.

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

dcoffield
11-06-2005, 06:04 PM
Cotton pin...cotter picker???;) I guess I know what a castellated nut looks like, just not the appropriate descriptor.

I just ordered the Steeltech disk kit for the front (I really don't like drum brakes, especially in Michigan where everything rusts and siezes up).

prager
11-07-2005, 08:34 AM
How big of a deal is it to switch a Dana 44 with 3:31 tapered axles to twin trac? I have seen some aftermarket things in Summit's catalog, but the rear end I have was made in 1956, I'm sure there have been some changes that would stop me from using anything too new..What do you guys think?

Stude4x4
11-07-2005, 11:00 AM
Prager, Its not too bad to change a 44 to TT with tapered axles. Yes, flanged is better but you can do it. A Dana 44 is a Dana 44 the only difference is how many splines are on your axleshaft. You can get a TT unit just about anywhere. As far as the work involved its pretty easy to set up. Obviously the axleshafts need to be pulled out which will require the car to be put on jack stands. Everything from there just flys. If you use the same ring and pinion then you shouldn't need too much setting up. Make sure your gear pattern looks good and your backlash is what the book says. If you have any more questions feel free to ask. I'm sure many more guys have messed with this before and I myself have set up a few gearsets.
Jake

-Home of John Studebaker-

Roscomacaw
11-07-2005, 01:34 PM
I was looking into this a couple years ago. There's a unit called Powr-Trax (I think that's the name) that offered a limited slip insert that only required you take the back cover off the rear and pull the axles out a bit. The sucker's 'sposed to bolt right in and be good to go! Price was about $400 or less and they DID offer one for a 19-spline Type 44.
I haven't followed thru on this and maybe never will since I found a TT rear to use where I wanted. Maybe someone else here knows of what I speak. Jeff?[8D]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Stude4x4
11-07-2005, 10:09 PM
Yeah biggs powr-trax makes the unit called a lock right. Its not a limited slip. It doesn't give like the limited slips do. Its easier to do because you don't have to change any bearings, gear or anything. It just replaces the spider gears inside and you can put the unit back in. Another problem with the lock right is that its not very strong. Most guys use them as a cheap way to lock up their 4x4's. They're a lot cheaper than $400. Used mostly in the light duty rigs like toyotas and jeeps. I wouldn't recommend one for a Studebaker. Auburn gear makes an excellant limited slip, just like our old power locks from Stude. I could get you one for around 450 dollars.
Jake

-Home of John Studebaker-

prager
11-08-2005, 07:40 AM
Thanks for the tips guys! I just replaced the rear end with a 44, but sadly it was not a TT. I think they are getting a little harder to find anymore..The one I got was maybe out of a truck or something..the date code on the gears was from the 1956 model year. I was told that these will hold up well to higher horse engines..I hope that is true!! Also, when installing a posi unit, like was in the topic before, do you need to replace the axle shaft seals? I just replaced them and would hate to do it again if I had to pull the shafts..I put in the old leather type that I got n.o.s. Also..I suppose one could find a rear end for cheaper than 450...but it would probably be faster to put in a posi spider unit than it would an entire rear end unit...

Roscomacaw
11-08-2005, 11:43 AM
I didn't think I had it wrong. My search, a few years ago, was more than casual. I was sold on the Powertrax unit. Like this:

http://www.powertrax.com/nsexploded.html
http://www.powertrax.com/noslip.html

Not to be confused with the Lock Right unit you speak of, 4X4:

http://www.powertrax.com/lockright.html

;)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Stude4x4
11-08-2005, 09:25 PM
Thanks for the clarification biggs. I don't want to be tellig people one thing and it being something else.

Prager, you wouldn't have to replace the seals if you just put them in. I would highly recommend putting an Auburn Gear Limited slip in your 44. Even though its form 56 you can get one 19 spline.

-Home of John Studebaker-

prager
11-09-2005, 08:15 AM
Thanks again for the info guys...So for my info, whatever I get, it should be 19 spline? Is there any other info I need to know before I go searching for the unit? I am not too experienced with rear axle stuff so bear with me..Thanks!!

rusty nut garage
11-09-2005, 09:25 AM
The problem with so called plug in lockers or limited slips is that the end result is only as good as the quality of the carrier was to begin with. Worn carriers can cause the locker to engage and disengage running straight down the highway. If the carrier is worn in the area where the side gears run or wear on the thrust washers (shims) behind the side gears. The other is machined center holes that are off, but close enough that no problems were ever encountered running the open rear end.
Bottom line is carriers that were designed for lockers are machined to a tighter tolerance.
Russ



quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

I was looking into this a couple years ago. There's a unit called Powr-Trax (I think that's the name) that offered a limited slip insert that only required you take the back cover off the rear and pull the axles out a bit. The sucker's 'sposed to bolt right in and be good to go! Price was about $400 or less and they DID offer one for a 19-spline Type 44.
I haven't followed thru on this and maybe never will since I found a TT rear to use where I wanted. Maybe someone else here knows of what I speak. Jeff?[8D]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS


Russ Shop Foreman "Rusty Nut Garage"
57 SH (project)
60 Lark VIII 2dr sd (driver)

Stude4x4
11-09-2005, 10:07 AM
That's why I said to buy the Auburn Gear limited slip. Speaking from experience its one of the best on the market right now. Yeah it will cost more than to replace the spider gears but its worth if your getting a tough carrier. Prager all you need to do is find a power lock or a new Auburn Gear limited slip. The only information you need to know is this: Its for a Dana 44, 19 spline. Pretty simple. I you want I could order you an Auburn Limited slip. But its up to you.
Jake

-Home of John Studebaker-

prager
11-09-2005, 11:52 AM
Jake, how much do these units usually cost? Thanks!!

Rosstude
11-09-2005, 01:18 PM
If I recall correctly our choices are limited for the 19 spline. A "Power Lock" limited slip was available new, but the quality was not that of the older units found as original equipment back in the day. A Detroit locker was available, but that is a true locker, and pricy at that.
I own a 66 Wagonaire, with the flanged 44 and have personal experience with the 27 spline unit, itís an odd bird. I had no luck finding a new limited slip, and in fact only SASCO had the spider gears for the open diff as NOS.
I think that I would be inclined to hunt down a Stude unit.


Ross.
57 Provincial
58 Transtar
66 Wagonaire

Roscomacaw
11-09-2005, 04:26 PM
If I read it right, Ted says he HAS a 27-spline TT unit for dcofield's needs. That would be the easiest way to go.

And, no change of those seals should be necessary.;)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

dcoffield
11-09-2005, 06:50 PM
Yes he does. We've been direct emailing to work out the details. His tt is for larger ratios, so I've had to descide if I could go from 3.31 to 4.09 without problems. I'll probably adjust the tire size to compensate for some of it.

dcoffield
11-09-2005, 07:02 PM
This is way off the subject, but I just found out my brother was staying at the Hyatt Hotel in Amman Jordan. He had left the hotel for dinner about a hour before the terrorists blew up all those innocent people. Wow!

Roscomacaw
11-09-2005, 09:31 PM
WOW is right. Let's hope he doesn't get caught up in any more nonsense like that![xx(]

BTW, I don't think you can simply change gears to adapt to that TT unit. A different gear case is required too. Or, maybe I'm reading more into it than there is.[:I]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

dcoffield
11-10-2005, 07:39 AM
Ok, I have a 3.31 gear axel now. Ted has a tt unit for the larger gear ratios and a 4.09 gear set. Can I put his tt unit with the 4.09 gear set in my axel?

DEEPNHOCK
11-10-2005, 07:49 AM
Not so with the Powertrax.
http://www.drivetrain.com/noslip.html
It is designed so it can be adjusted.
Granted, installing one in a junk diff will make for a more expensive junk diff, bit it can be done.
But at $400+ for just the Power-Trax, your normal Stude/Dana alternatives are multiple.
But for the guy who has a decent diff, this could be an alternative that wouldn't require a case spreader, a pinion depth guage, or a trip to the differential shop.
However... I am not a fan of 'lockers', as they are too harsh for the street. Having run a Detroit locker around a while, they take a bit of thrashing to get them to lock up, and a bit of thrashing to get them to unlock. (You have to spin the tire(s) to lock it, and turn a corner to unlock it).. If you don't 'lock it', then when you drive, you are driving off one axle. The car/truck will pull slightly to one side under power and pull the other way inder decelleration. And going around a corner in the rain when it is 'locked up' is an experience to be avoided.
That's why I like the multiple plate, and cone style limited slip diff's, like the Dana or the Auburn....
Jeff[8D]


quote:Originally posted by rusty nut garage

The problem with so called plug in lockers or limited slips is that the end result is only as good as the quality of the carrier was to begin with. Worn carriers can cause the locker to engage and disengage running straight down the highway. If the carrier is worn in the area where the side gears run or wear on the thrust washers (shims) behind the side gears. The other is machined center holes that are off, but close enough that no problems were ever encountered running the open rear end.
Bottom line is carriers that were designed for lockers are machined to a tighter tolerance.
Russ



quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

I was looking into this a couple years ago. There's a unit called Powr-Trax (I think that's the name) that offered a limited slip insert that only required you take the back cover off the rear and pull the axles out a bit. The sucker's 'sposed to bolt right in and be good to go! Price was about $400 or less and they DID offer one for a 19-spline Type 44.
I haven't followed thru on this and maybe never will since I found a TT rear to use where I wanted. Maybe someone else here knows of what I speak. Jeff?[8D]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS


Russ Shop Foreman "Rusty Nut Garage"
57 SH (project)
60 Lark VIII 2dr sd (driver)


DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
'37 Coupe Express
'37 Coupe Express Trailer
'61 Hawk
http://community.webshots.com/photo/42559113/426827941Lsvfrz
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

DEEPNHOCK
11-10-2005, 08:06 AM
I forget which ratio number is where the carrier changes, but here is why it is important to get the right one,
The lower the ratio (higher the number) the smaller the pinion gets (fewer teeth). This means the ring gear has to be thicker to get the teeth over to the (now smaller) pinion gear to mesh. Sometimes a spacer plate can be added to move the ring gear over with a larger ratio (smaller number)carrier, but longer bolts are needed. I'd have to look it up, but IIRC, the split was around 3.43 for a carrier change. A 4WD shop may be able to help, as a ton of p/u's use the Dana 44....
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by dcoffield

Ok, I have a 3.31 gear axel now. Ted has a tt unit for the larger gear ratios and a 4.09 gear set. Can I put his tt unit with the 4.09 gear set in my axel?


DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
'37 Coupe Express
'37 Coupe Express Trailer
'61 Hawk
http://community.webshots.com/photo/42559113/426827941Lsvfrz
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

dcoffield
11-10-2005, 12:11 PM
quote:Originally posted by dcoffield

Ok, I have a 3.31 gear axel now. Ted has a tt unit for the larger gear ratios and a 4.09 gear set. Can I put his tt unit with the 4.09 gear set in my axel?


I just want to upgrade to twin traction and need to make sure I'm getting the right thing. I want to go to a larger number gear anyway, so what Ted has sounds attractive, if it will work for me.

Roscomacaw
11-10-2005, 02:12 PM
The ratio break is between the 3.73 and the 3.92, so the 4.09 TT unit that Ted has should do the trick for you.;)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Stude4x4
11-10-2005, 04:11 PM
In agreement with Biggs. Case change is between 3.73 and 3.92

-Home of John Studebaker-

big jim
11-10-2005, 06:11 PM
shore do resemble a "Detroit Locker" dont it Mr Biggs...

dcoffield
11-10-2005, 06:19 PM
I thought I was clear but now am confused again. Case change? Does that mean axel case? Currently have 3.31 gear. Can I put twin traction unit with 4.09 gear in what I have?

Roscomacaw
11-10-2005, 06:51 PM
No, we're not talking about the outer housing, we're talking about the "gearcase". the thing that the ring gear bolts to. There's two different gearcases that fit inside the 44 housing. One accomodates the lower numerical gearsets (up thru 3.73 ratio) and and the other, the higher numerical gearsets (3.92 ratio and higher).:)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

dcoffield
11-10-2005, 06:57 PM
Is the gearcase part of the twin traction unit?

N8N
11-10-2005, 07:22 PM
Ayup.

Basically if you buy the high ratio TT unit, you can use a 3.92 or higher gearset.

If you bought a *low* ratio TT unit, you could still use the higher ratio gears, with a spacer. But it doesn't work the other way.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
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